Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Also it appears that you forgot who Jesus addressed this prophecy to. All of this was supposed to happen within 60 years after Jesus's death. Now that deserves a
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Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus
- Thread starter Rational Agnostic
- Start date
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Matthew 24:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
How did people hear of wars and rumors of wars? Like World War I?
Daniel 12:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
“But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
Before the invention of the telegraph and telephone - people didn't hear of wars and rumors of wars. Communications have advanced to the point where news about World War I was quickly heard through out the world.
Matthew 24:7 New King James Version (NKJV)
For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/influenza-epidemic/
Hard as it is to believe, the answer is true.
World War I claimed an estimated 16 million lives. The influenza epidemic that swept the world in 1918 killed an estimated 50 million people. One fifth of the world's population was attacked by this deadly virus. Within months, it had killed more people than any other illness in recorded history.
So that is just one of the many prophecies which the Lord Jesus Christ said in the 1st century which was realized in the 20th century.
Last edited:
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
Yet you have no rebuttal to my OP.
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
And yet every bible version that I know of contains these failed prophecies.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Also it appears that you forgot who Jesus addressed this prophecy to. All of this was supposed to happen within 60 years after Jesus's death. Now that deserves a
The Lord Jesus was taken up to heaven and John was exiled at Patmos, where he wrote the prophecies given to him by God through the Lord Jesus Christ. John lived for 100 years while the rest of the apostles are "asleep".
Revelation 1:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
First of the Seven Seals - the White Horse
Revelation 6:1-2 New King James Version (NKJV)
Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
Matthew 7:15 Expanded Bible (EXB)
“·Be careful of [Beware of; Watch out for] false prophets. They come to you ·looking gentle like sheep [disguised like sheep; L in sheep’s clothing], but ·they are really dangerous like wolves [L underneath/inwardly they are ravenous/vicious/ferocious wolves].
When was the fulfillment of this prophecy? 380 A.D.
Nicene Christianity became the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD, when Emperor Theodosius I made it the Empire's sole authorized religion.[1][2] The Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Catholic Church each claim to be the historical continuation of this church in its original form, but do not identify with it in the caesaropapist form that it took later. Unlike Constantine I, who with the Edict of Milan of 313 AD had established tolerance for Christianity without placing it above other religions[3] and whose involvement in matters of the Christian faith extended to convoking councils of bishops who were to determine doctrine and to presiding at their meetings, but not to determining doctrine himself,[4] Theodosius established a single Christian doctrine (specified as that professed by Pope Damasus I of Rome and Pope Peter II of Alexandria) as the Empire's official religion. [State church of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia]
New Testament Prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled as attested by History.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The Lord Jesus was taken up to heaven and John was exiled at Patmos, where he wrote the prophecies given to him by God through the Lord Jesus Christ. John lived for 100 years while the rest of the apostles are "asleep".
Revelation 1:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
View attachment 22708
First of the Seven Seals - the White Horse
Revelation 6:1-2 New King James Version (NKJV)
Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
Matthew 7:15 Expanded Bible (EXB)
“·Be careful of [Beware of; Watch out for] false prophets. They come to you ·looking gentle like sheep [disguised like sheep; L in sheep’s clothing], but ·they are really dangerous like wolves [L underneath/inwardly they are ravenous/vicious/ferocious wolves].
When was the fulfillment of this prophecy? 380 A.D.
Nicene Christianity became the state church of the Roman Empire with the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD, when Emperor Theodosius I made it the Empire's sole authorized religion.[1][2] The Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Catholic Church each claim to be the historical continuation of this church in its original form, but do not identify with it in the caesaropapist form that it took later. Unlike Constantine I, who with the Edict of Milan of 313 AD had established tolerance for Christianity without placing it above other religions[3] and whose involvement in matters of the Christian faith extended to convoking councils of bishops who were to determine doctrine and to presiding at their meetings, but not to determining doctrine himself,[4] Theodosius established a single Christian doctrine (specified as that professed by Pope Damasus I of Rome and Pope Peter II of Alexandria) as the Empire's official religion. [State church of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia]
New Testament Prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled as attested by History.
Sorry, that is only your interpretation of how and when that prophecy was fulfilled. Other Christians have a different interpretation. That once again makes it a failed prophecy.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
"Other Christians" and I'm sure they belong to the white horse.
Revelation 6:3-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
When was the fulfillment of this prophecy? 1095-1291 A.D.
The Crusades were a series of religious wars sanctioned by the Latin Church in the medieval period. The most commonly known Crusades were the campaigns in the Eastern Mediterranean aimed at recovering the Holy Land from Muslim rule. The term "Crusades" is also applied to other church-sanctioned campaigns, such as "Albigensian Crusade" against the Cathars or the "Baltic Crusades". These were fought for a variety of reasons including the suppression of paganism and heresy, the resolution of conflict among rival Roman Catholic groups, or for political and territorial advantage. [Crusades - Wikipedia]
New Testament Prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled as attested by History.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Try to post without all of the lunacy and I will spend more time refuting your claims. Until you do all I need to refute you is to point out that multiple interpretations means the prophecy failed."Other Christians" and I'm sure they belong to the white horse.
Revelation 6:3-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
View attachment 22712
When was the fulfillment of this prophecy? 1095-1291 A.D.
The Crusades were a series of religious wars sanctioned by the Latin Church in the medieval period. The most commonly known Crusades were the campaigns in the Eastern Mediterranean aimed at recovering the Holy Land from Muslim rule. The term "Crusades" is also applied to other church-sanctioned campaigns, such as "Albigensian Crusade" against the Cathars or the "Baltic Crusades". These were fought for a variety of reasons including the suppression of paganism and heresy, the resolution of conflict among rival Roman Catholic groups, or for political and territorial advantage. [Crusades - Wikipedia]
New Testament Prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled as attested by History.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Now for the THIRD SEAL, it is like an insane 3 point shot that so far is unanswered.
Revelation 6:5-6 New King James Version (NKJV)
When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”
When was the fulfillment of this prophecy? 1315-1317 A.D.
The Great Famine of 1315–1317 (occasionally dated 1315–1322) was the first of a series of large-scale crises that struck Europe early in the 14th century. Most of Europe (extending east to Russia and south to Italy) was affected.[1] The famine caused millions of deaths over an extended number of years and marked a clear end to the period of growth and prosperity from the 11th to the 13th centuries.
The Great Famine started with bad weather in spring 1315. Crop failures lasted through 1316 until the summer harvest in 1317, and Europe did not fully recover until 1322. The period was marked by extreme levels of crime, disease, mass death, and even cannibalism and infanticide. The crisis had consequences for the Church, state, European society, and for future calamities to follow in the 14th century.
Great Famine of 1315–17 - Wikipedia
New Testament Prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled as attested by History. [So far 3 seals in the Book of Revelation explained but wait there are more 4 seals to reveal - and we could compare these with historical events]
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I see that you are set on losing the debate.Now for the THIRD SEAL, it is like an insane 3 point shot that so far is unanswered.
Revelation 6:5-6 New King James Version (NKJV)
When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”
View attachment 22713
When was the fulfillment of this prophecy? 1315-1317 A.D.
The Great Famine of 1315–1317 (occasionally dated 1315–1322) was the first of a series of large-scale crises that struck Europe early in the 14th century. Most of Europe (extending east to Russia and south to Italy) was affected.[1] The famine caused millions of deaths over an extended number of years and marked a clear end to the period of growth and prosperity from the 11th to the 13th centuries.
The Great Famine started with bad weather in spring 1315. Crop failures lasted through 1316 until the summer harvest in 1317, and Europe did not fully recover until 1322. The period was marked by extreme levels of crime, disease, mass death, and even cannibalism and infanticide. The crisis had consequences for the Church, state, European society, and for future calamities to follow in the 14th century.
Great Famine of 1315–17 - Wikipedia
New Testament Prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled as attested by History. [So far 3 seals in the Book of Revelation explained but wait there are more 4 seals to reveal - and we could compare these with histi orical events]
Once again, multiple interpretations means that it is a failed prophecy.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
I believe I did not interpret but compared the prophecy from history.
Interpretation is coming from one's point of view which I did not exercise because I am not that creative or authoritative. What I could do is to compare this and that and when you figure out to put two and two together, you'll get the answer. Sometimes people just don't want to yield to the obvious because they have their own personal biases or just overwhelmed when finding out that things are really true and undeniable.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
QUOTEI believe I did not interpret but compared the prophecy from history.
Interpretation is coming from one's point of view which I did not exercise because I am not that creative or authoritative. What I could do is to compare this and that and when you figure out to put two and two together, you'll get the answer. Sometimes people just don't want to yield to the obvious because they have their own personal biases or just overwhelmed when finding out that things are really true and undeniable.
You interpreted. Others interpret differently.
by doing so you keep proving the prophecy to be failed.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Just like that? Hahaha!
Yeah right, I'm wrong because what? You said so?
The next seal is the fourth.
Revelation 6:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
When was the fulfillment of this prophecy? 1347-1351 A.D.
The Black Death, also known as the Great Plague, the Black Plague, or simply the Plague, was one of the most devastating pandemics in human history, resulting in the deaths of an estimated 75 to 200 million people in Eurasia and peaking in Europe from 1347 to 1351.[1][2][3] The bacterium Yersinia pestis, which results in several forms of plague, is believed to have been the cause.[4] The plague created a series of religious, social and economic upheavals, which had profound effects on the course of European history.
The Black Death is thought to have originated in the dry plains of Central Asia, where it then travelled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1343.[5] From there, it was most likely carried by Oriental rat fleas living on the black rats that were regular passengers on merchant ships, spreading throughout the Mediterranean and Europe.
The Black Death is estimated to have killed 30–60% of Europe's total population.[6] In total, the plague may have reduced the world population from an estimated 450 million down to 350–375 million in the 14th century.[7] It took 200 years for the world population to recover to its previous level.[8][9] The plague recurred as outbreaks in Europe until the 19th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
New Testament Prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled as compared with History.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Just like that? Hahaha!
Yeah right, I'm wrong because what? You said so?
The next seal is the fourth.
Revelation 6:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
When was the fulfillment of this prophecy? 1347-1351 A.D.
The Black Death, also known as the Great Plague, the Black Plague, or simply the Plague, was one of the most devastating pandemics in human history, resulting in the deaths of an estimated 75 to 200 million people in Eurasia and peaking in Europe from 1347 to 1351.[1][2][3] The bacterium Yersinia pestis, which results in several forms of plague, is believed to have been the cause.[4] The plague created a series of religious, social and economic upheavals, which had profound effects on the course of European history.
The Black Death is thought to have originated in the dry plains of Central Asia, where it then travelled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1343.[5] From there, it was most likely carried by Oriental rat fleas living on the black rats that were regular passengers on merchant ships, spreading throughout the Mediterranean and Europe.
The Black Death is estimated to have killed 30–60% of Europe's total population.[6] In total, the plague may have reduced the world population from an estimated 450 million down to 350–375 million in the 14th century.[7] It took 200 years for the world population to recover to its previous level.[8][9] The plague recurred as outbreaks in Europe until the 19th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
New Testament Prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled as compared with History.
All that you are doing is making the Bible look like it was either written by a loon, or perhaps reinterpreted that way. The problem with excessively vague prophecies is that they can always be matched to several events given enough time.
Are you familiar with the works of Nostradamus? He too made prophecies, his prophecies were "fulfilled" just as must as Revelations and other wackiness in the Bible. Anyone that writes a vague enough line can claim that his prophecies have been fulfilled. The problem is that they can all be interpreted to apply to more than one event. You continue to show that the Bible is not a holy book by posting failed prophecies. You are not a friend to your religion you are a foe to it.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Compare defined:
a : to examine the character or qualities of especially in order to discover resemblances or differences
- compare your responses with the answers
- He is tall compared to me.
- The test was easy compared with the last one.
Interpret defined:
: to explain or tell the meaning of : present in understandable terms
- interpret dreams
- needed help interpreting the results
So far I have shown 4 seals - comparing what is written in the Bible with that of recorded History. And while doing that I have received only flimsy conjectures than a rebuttal. It is like talking to an inquisitor who could only deliver an empty accusation lacking in substance whatsoever.
It is up for the readers to evaluate whether we have given justice to the prophecies as compared to historical facts or your flat denial as an atheist. Which is untrue? Aren't those written and weren't those came to pass as recorded in history?
I belong to a church where these things are taught and we indeed have studied these compelling comparisons - which we, ourselves could not refute - so it is not surprising that you could not refute these yourself, atheist or not.
Nostradamus? The fortune teller who lived in 1503-1566, a copy cat? How about suggesting someone who was born before the Lord Jesus Christ so you could declare him just an ordinary fortune teller? But we are not talking about Nostradamus but the topic we are talking about:
Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus
Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Jun 5, 2018.
And these exposition is proven to everybody that what the Lord Jesus said became true as recorded in the annals of history.
Now let us continue with the fifth seal and find out where in history we could find it fulfilled.
Revelation 6:9-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
When was the fulfillment of this prophecy? 1478-1834 A.D.
The Inquisition was a group of institutions within the government system of the Catholic Church whose aim was to combat public heresy committed by baptized Christians. It started in 12th-century France to combat religious dissent, in particular the Cathars and the Waldensians. Other groups investigated later included the Spiritual Franciscans, the Hussites (followers of Jan Hus) and the Beguines. Beginning in the 1250s, inquisitors were generally chosen from members of the Dominican Order, replacing the earlier practice of using local clergy as judges.[1] The term Medieval Inquisition covers these courts up to mid-15th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
Pope says sorry for sins of church
Sweeping apology for attacks on Jews, women and minorities defies theologians' warnings
Saving one of his most audacious initiatives for the twilight of his papacy, John Paul II yesterday attempted to purify the soul of the Roman Catholic church by making a sweeping apology for 2,000 years of violence, persecution and blunders.
The Inquisition
The attempt to combat suspected apostates, Jews and Muslims at the time of the Reformation spawned tribunals in Europe and the new world that tortured and executed thousands. Ecclesiastical queasiness about flowing blood led to the use of racks, thumbscrews and red-hot metal instead of blades; 2,000 people were burned at the stake during the tenure of Spain's first grand inquisitor, Tomas de Torquemada.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion
New Testament Prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled as compared with History.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Compare defined:
a : to examine the character or qualities of especially in order to discover resemblances or differences
b : to view in relation to
- compare your responses with the answers
- He is tall compared to me.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/compare
- The test was easy compared with the last one.
Interpret defined:
: to explain or tell the meaning of : present in understandable terms
- interpret dreams
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/interpreting
- needed help interpreting the results
So far I have shown 4 seals - comparing what is written in the Bible with that of recorded History. And while doing that I have received only flimsy conjectures than a rebuttal. It is like talking to an inquisitor who could only deliver an empty accusation lacking in substance whatsoever.
It is up for the readers to evaluate whether we have given justice to the prophecies as compared to historical facts or your flat denial as an atheist. Which is untrue? Aren't those written and weren't those came to pass as recorded in history?
I belong to a church where these things are taught and we indeed have studied these compelling comparisons - which we, ourselves could not refute - so it is not surprising that you could not refute these yourself, atheist or not.
Nostradamus? The fortune teller who lived in 1503-1566, a copy cat? How about suggesting someone who was born before the Lord Jesus Christ so you could declare him just an ordinary fortune teller? But we are not talking about Nostradamus but the topic we are talking about:
Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus
Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Jun 5, 2018.
And these exposition is proven to everybody that what the Lord Jesus said became true as recorded in the annals of history.
Now let us continue with the fifth seal and find out where in history we could find it fulfilled.
Revelation 6:9-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
When was the fulfillment of this prophecy? 1478-1834 A.D.
The Inquisition was a group of institutions within the government system of the Catholic Church whose aim was to combat public heresy committed by baptized Christians. It started in 12th-century France to combat religious dissent, in particular the Cathars and the Waldensians. Other groups investigated later included the Spiritual Franciscans, the Hussites (followers of Jan Hus) and the Beguines. Beginning in the 1250s, inquisitors were generally chosen from members of the Dominican Order, replacing the earlier practice of using local clergy as judges.[1] The term Medieval Inquisition covers these courts up to mid-15th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
Pope says sorry for sins of church
Sweeping apology for attacks on Jews, women and minorities defies theologians' warnings
Saving one of his most audacious initiatives for the twilight of his papacy, John Paul II yesterday attempted to purify the soul of the Roman Catholic church by making a sweeping apology for 2,000 years of violence, persecution and blunders.
The Inquisition
The attempt to combat suspected apostates, Jews and Muslims at the time of the Reformation spawned tribunals in Europe and the new world that tortured and executed thousands. Ecclesiastical queasiness about flowing blood led to the use of racks, thumbscrews and red-hot metal instead of blades; 2,000 people were burned at the stake during the tenure of Spain's first grand inquisitor, Tomas de Torquemada.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion
New Testament Prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled as compared with History.
I see that you have still not learned.
Why do you keep posting examples of failed prophecies? Do you want to disprove all of the Bible?
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
I'm saying it the prophecies have come true. Now having shown you the comparisons which SEAL in the Book of Revelations, you want to disprove?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But you have totally failed to do so. If anything you disproved Revelation (no "s").
Would you like to learn how?
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
How can an atheist [one who does not believe in the Lord God] could really believe in what the Bible says?
Much more believe His Son, whom He has sent?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I don't, why do you think that matters?How can an atheist [one who does not believe in the Lord God] could really believe in what the Bible says?
Much more believe His Son, whom He has sent?
I don't have to believe your book of myths to understand it. Most atheists understand the Bible than most Christians. Partially because you handicap yourself without know it.
EDIT: For example I know what makes a prophecy a failed prophecy. Something that you clearly do not understand.