CrochetOverCoffee
Ask me anything about the church of Christ.
I am curious, based on some of the responses that I have gotten on other posts, what folks here think the relationship between faith and obedience is?
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Faith and Obedience
- Thread starter CrochetOverCoffee
- Start date
It would depend on the religion and what each God or set of Gods expects from followers and such.
Personally, I have no use for faith, but as far as a relationship between the two with regard to religion, such a relationship lies predominantly in Abrahamic religions. I don't see much of a relationship between the two in dharmic and pagan religions.
In human development people first learn about good behaviors by following external rules. To obey them externally, eventually should lead to internalizing the principles of them. At which point, you natural do these coming from within, rather than conforming to something outside of ourselves.
"Love is the fullment of the law", says Paul. "Love works no ill". I see the latter as faith, something from the heart, reflecting who we are and have become. I see obedience, in the sense of following the rules, as a learning step, but not yet realized in the person. "The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ", says the author of Hebrews. Same principle.
It's the difference between being simply religious, and being spiritual. IMO.
***MOVED TO GENERAL RELIGIOUS DEBATES***
Tradition is an example of faithfulness. So is educational discipline as in the sciences. Things like these are footsteps into the past that we can see or like tunnels into the past. You can see where they come from and predict where they are going. You can see consistency and by induction see the past which is invisible. When people are faithful we see the results, and it gives us eyes of faith, which are better then just wishful thinking. We can have confidence.
Obedience is what keeps tradition going, but it isn't always what keeps faithfulness going. If what you're doing is wrong then doing what is expected is not faithfulness, so consistency is not its true measure.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
I don't really know. Obedience sounds like it might be the next step after faith, as it seems more like an action, or way of being, in light of faith, that preceded it.
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I have no problem with Faith . . . Obedience however does not figure into the Left Hand Path.
If the topic is faith in a religion, then there should be obedience to what the religion teaches within limits. If someone tells you their opinion about the religion, it's their opinion and I would question it if it seems off base. If it's one's own understanding, then I would tend to hold the idea that my understanding could be partial or even flawed.
If a guru or spiritual director is involved, there can be a different consideration. Then the question is not one of a religious faith but faith in a teacher which could be a religious figure. I believe there are figures who have reached high and even the highest spiritual states who are teachers/gurus/murshids. If you are a student of a true spiritual teacher of the highest kind, obedience to the teacher is obedience to your highest self.
There are also countless frauds, some of whom are very good at hoodwinking people. So being mindful that such hypocrites exist is important.Tukaram said of those in the East: 'Wearing long matted hair and with ash-besmeared body, there are many frauds in varied guises. Tukaram says let their (dead) conscience get burnt—it is no sin to thrash them!'
epronovost
Well-Known Member
Faith and obedience aren't related or at least not in a very direct manner. Most religion rest upon faith, you believe in their claims despite their often very lacking evidence. Obedience to religious tenets, laws, practice and dogmas is based upon an appeal to authority, the biggest appeal to authority imaginable: these are the things to do, because the ultimate, most powerful super creatures said we should do those things. If you have faith in the claims, then the rules derived from those claims have authority.
In relation to the New Covenant faith... I guess a good example would be:
John9:6 After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes.7 “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means “Sent”). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.
Had he not been obedient to the command, I don't think he would have seen again.
So, in other words, faith will have a corresponding action of obedience.
I have understood faith means loyalty to God. If person is loyal to God, he keeps His commandments, which I think is then also obedience. But, I think that doesn't come because person is forced to do so, but because person loves God and understands God's will is good and therefore wants to be loyal and obedient to God.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I prefer to call it subjugation in terms of obedience.
Faith just tells me a person is influenced by which obedience follows suit. Likely on a whim.