Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

[Greatest I am]

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL

 

[ChristineES]

I've never found that to be true, that faith closes the mind. I mean, it might be true for a small percentage of people, but not for the majority of people. Faith is not idol worship. Idol worship is worshiping someone or something that is not God.

 

[sojourner]

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL

I suppose if you want to define "faith" as blind belief,then perhaps. That's not how I define it -- nor anyone else I know. Faith and belief are two separate things. And belief isn't necessarily a "blind, literalistic acceptance."

 

[Sleeppy]

I have to agree to a point.. Hope, or faith, only becomes idol/ideal worship when it is either false, or unjustified-- or simply evil.

 

[Greatest I am]

I've never found that to be true, that faith closes the mind. I mean, it might be true for a small percentage of people, but not for the majority of people. Faith is not idol worship. Idol worship is worshiping someone or something that is not God.

Faith is directly associated with a God is it not?

If not, faith in what exactly are you talking of?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I suppose if you want to define "faith" as blind belief,then perhaps. That's not how I define it -- nor anyone else I know. Faith and belief are two separate things. And belief isn't necessarily a "blind, literalistic acceptance."

Then give us your definition of faith and show what you have faith in please.

If belief is not to a literal reading of scriptures then what is the belief towards?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I have to agree to a point.. Hope, or faith, only becomes idol/ideal worship when it is either false, or unjustified-- or simply evil.

Thanks for this.

I think it led to a lot of evil. Faith and literal belief in myths. As shown in this first link.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. It is to become more fully human.

Regards
DL

 

[sojourner]

Then give us your definition of faith and show what you have faith in please.

If belief is not to a literal reading of scriptures then what is the belief towards?

Regards
DL

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for.

Belief is an understanding of self, world, and our place in it, generally within some mythic framework.

 

[InChrist]

Faith in the God of the Bible is not blind, nonsensical faith, but faith based upon historical reality, God's interaction with individuals and nations, personal testimonies, and fulfilled prophetic promises culminating in the ultimate revelation of Jesus Christ whose life was verified by infallible proofs and eyewitness accounts..

The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. Acts 1:1-3

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:1-3

 

[ChristineES]

Then give us your definition of faith and show what you have faith in please.

If belief is not to a literal reading of scriptures then what is the belief towards?

Regards
DL

My definition depends on the context of the word. I believe in God yet I don't take ALL of the scriptures literally; I am convinced that the creation story, Adam and Eve and maybe a couple of others are symbolic. Yeshua spoke in parables, so I assume the prophets did, too.
Faith is 1. Having trust in someone or something. I also use the word to show my belief in a God that has no scientific evidence.

 

[Thana]

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

Regards
DL

Sure, if you go around calling reason a whore, I'm guessing you're going to have a difficult time.
But most of us believers value reason just as much as faith.

 

[Riverwolf]

Faith is directly associated with a God is it not?

It often is, but not necessarily so.

Are you, or would you be, faithful to your significant other?

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Naturally, then, rather than relying on faith from some supposed "authority" you've constructed your own models of climate change, your empirically-based version of the standard model, relativistic physics, medical science, and so on. After all, if you were just to accept a theory like quantum mechanics or evolution without having determined for yourself all the evidence that has gone into the current state of research, you'd be relying on faith. Speaking of which, have you ever had medical treatment (pills, shots, medical imaging, etc.)? Can you describe not only precisely the means by which you determined the efficacy of such treatments or imaging prior to subjecting yourself to them (which would be, after all, blind faith)?

For that matter, what evidence do you possess that there is any mind that isn't wholly neural states entirely determined by external variables?

Or do you just equate faith of a certain type with closed-mindedness well readily and blindly accepting countless claims from researchers, professional experts, doctors, etc.?

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

Moral people being...?

The God of the O.T. says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

And here I thought it was Hebrew. I'm not sure whether to expect yet another ridiculous reference to Strong's vs. a real lexicon, but I would love to hear you commentary on the verse cited.

How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Among other things, humans are not inclined to grasping logic.

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Faith can be blind allegiance to some theistic entity or a belief that sensory input is entirely an illusion. It was faith that founded science (although this was not to last and obviously so).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you haven't actually read the primary sources for the myths you refer to nor the literature (primary and secondary) on how utterly irrelevant these were to those from antiquity compared to what religion actually consisted of.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths.

RIght. Because "gnostics' and pagans of the first few centuries were well versed in Jungian theory and its popularization via Campbell (and had good reason to reject the overwhelming evidence that such idiocy only survives as a function less useful than one's appendix.

We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses.

I learned long ago that as much I might expect those, who are like me, to be without religious-like dogma to exhibit a more objective reasoning, this was foolishness. Dogma is dogma and ignorance is ignorance whether one believes in gods or UFOs or Unicorns or whatever.

 

[Estro Felino]

Excellent thread, bravo.
Precisely. Blind faith (well ...faith is almost always blind) is a very negative thing because you are supposed to use your own brain to judge things.

I am totally convinced that we are capable of distinguishing right from wrong. so...faith is useless. Immanuel Kant said : Sapere aude, that in Latin means : Have the courage to use your own intelligence, without other people's help. (and that was the Enlightenment motto).

God is reason, and wisdom. The Bible is full of illogical concepts...so it is full of anti-God concepts. but it's full of divine concepts too.
what makes people accept the Bible blindly, is fundamentalism.

 

[Estro Felino]

I suppose if you want to define "faith" as blind belief,then perhaps. That's not how I define it -- nor anyone else I know. Faith and belief are two separate things. And belief isn't necessarily a "blind, literalistic acceptance."

I'm sorry....but faith is what prevents Christians from reasoning and figuring out that we are NOT saved through the Cross.
and that Jesus was murdered and we must reject the Cross and any murder. Because killing a human being, even if it deals with the worst of the criminals, is awful. Not to mention killing Jesus...

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

I'm sorry....but faith is what prevents Christians from reasoning and figuring out that we are NOT saved through the Cross.
and that Jesus was murdered and we must reject the Cross and any murder. Because killing a human being, even if it deals with the worst of the criminals, is awful. Not to mention killing Jesus...

I admit a certain bias here: I don't believe in Christian or any other theology or religion. I do, however, very much believe in reasoning, logic, argumentation, and their applications. The same religious trends that hamper current scientific progress, when they do, were those selfsame principles that created the university system and basically early modern science and early modern scholarship because in no small part the adoption of Christian notions. Of course, this has no bearing on your statement about the morality of not rejecting "the Cross" for the reasons you say. It is simply about the nonsense espoused in the OP.

 

[sojourner]

I'm sorry....but faith is what prevents Christians from reasoning and figuring out that we are NOT saved through the Cross.
and that Jesus was murdered and we must reject the Cross and any murder. Because killing a human being, even if it deals with the worst of the criminals, is awful. Not to mention killing Jesus...

Of course we are, because, through the cross we find Jesus' full humanity -- he could be killed, and, in fact, was killed. He was weak and subject to human domination, like other human beings. He showed love and self-sacrifice. He was not above the dirt of humanity. through the cross, Jesus was fully human. And it is in Jesus' full humanity that we are reconciled.

 

[Estro Felino]

Of course we are, because, through the cross we find Jesus' full humanity -- he could be killed, and, in fact, was killed. He was weak and subject to human domination, like other human beings. He showed love and self-sacrifice. He was not above the dirt of humanity. through the cross, Jesus was fully human. And it is in Jesus' full humanity that we are reconciled.

It still sounds against logic. I deeply respect your view (which is the view of the entire Christendom).
It's like you said that full humanity inevitably implies evil and "hurting other people". That's not truth. Saints have never hurt anyone in their lives.
He didn't want to suffer (who would?) but the other people's free will was stronger.
I don't want to go off topic...but it is obvious that there are things in the Bible we shouldn't accept blindly

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To the OP, welcome back! I didn't realize this thread was active and I thought it was another zombie thread roaming around.

I think it led to a lot of evil. Faith and literal belief in myths. As shown in this first link.

It has also lead to alot of good. People have been fed and clothes, homes built, orphans taken in, medical treatments administered, to simply dismiss it all as causing alot of evil is to be ignoring the religious-based charity that probably exists (or existed if it hasn't shut down) within your community.

 

[Sabour]

What if that faith tells you to be open minded ? Would you say that you are being closed minded, and you should not be open minded because your faith tells you to be open minded to prove that faith is wrong? Do you think in that condition the faith is making closing your mind to ?