Faith Crisis

[Marco19]

Hi Marco,

You won't find many temples to Brahmā at all. There's probably less than 10.
But from my experience, many people who are learning about Hinduism, or new to it, find Brahmā to be an interesting deva; maybe it's a leftover from Abrahamic beliefs, with God as the creator and supreme.

yeah that make sense,

are those temples all in USA?
few years ago, i searched for some in Europe but couldn't find.

Is there any unique rituals within the temples?

 

[Breathe]

yeah that make sense,

are those temples all in USA?
few years ago, i searched for some in Europe but couldn't find.

Is there any unique rituals within the temples?

On the contrary: all Hindu Brahmā temples are in India.
Statues of Brahmā, however, can be found at the Erawan Shrine in Thailand:

Spoiler: Photo of Brahma, Thailand

Source of photo: Erawan Shrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Source: Erawan Shrine - Bangkok, Thailand

And, occasionally within some Japanese temples:

Spoiler: Photo of Brahma, Japan

Source: "Click here": Japanese Busshi (Sculptors), Kamakura Period, Who Made Japan's Buddha Statues?

 

[mudroots]

My own take on this idea is that no one person ever penetrates the self or being-ness except as they go through what is sometimes called "The Dark Night Of The Soul." The Dark Night is the Christian version. If interested in "Hinduism" then a good intellectual understanding would be found in reading about Arjuna and Krishna. But no intellectual unerstanding is really going to substitute for what the self seeks.. And no person actually survives that Dark Night. Just ask Arjuna! So it seems to me that there are many entry points to what you seek and eventually what you seek is found as what is actually doing the seeking itself. In your new affinity, that would be Krishna or Consciousness itself. It is the same with Jesus - Jesus is what is seeking and finding Jesus. But what to call that??? The Tao that can be named is ..........

Check out the Bhagavad Gita. Also be sure to check out the Ashtavakra Gita. Then ask "yourself" who this Abrahamic God person might actually be.......

You can "believe" as many things as you wish. It is what's under those beliefs and which never changes that is what is looking for things to believe in. It need not be named. It uses your good name instead. Again, just ask Arjuna how this all works.

Good luck and love!

 

[spiritualhitchhiker]

I should have worded it as "Seen as as powerful as they", instead, since he is a powerful divinity in his own right.

However, Brahmā, out of the trimūrti, is the only one who is universally accepted as dying; he has no avatāras, and he is cursed to not be worshipped in mythology because of various reasons, usually involving him being considered egotistical or lustful. Out of the trimūrti, Brahmā draws the short straw.

Whilst he was a very powerful deva in Vedic Hinduism, most likely the rise of Buddhism made him -- like Indra, less powerful divinities. Ironically, Brahmā worship is more common in Buddhist nations than it is in Hindu nations, and Brahmā is commonly found interesting to people who follow Hinduism later on in life. He's actually one of my favourite devas who drew me to Sanatāna Dharma.

actually there are two things with similar names in Sanatāna Dharma. 1 is Brahmā(who is part of trimuti, most myths are associated with this one). 2. Brahman, which is similar to G-d(Hashem) of Judaism.You sort of mixed up 2 of them. He is not worshiped in Buddhist nations also.

 

[Riverwolf]

actually thera are two things with similar names in Sanatāna Dharma. 1 is Brahmā(who is part of trimuti, most myths are associated with this one). 2. Brahman, which is similar to G-d(Hashem) of Judaism.You sort of mixed up 2 of them.

...how? Did you respond to the right post?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I believe it was reference to the perception of Brahman possibly being an avatar of Brahmā and therefore the comment (about him lacking avatars and not being worshiped to the same extent as the others of the trimūrti) may not be accounting for those theological traditions which worship the god concepts derived from Brahman.

 

[spiritualhitchhiker]

...how? Did you respond to the right post?

Yes, I think so. He said he was a powerful deva in Vedic Hinduism, in Vedic period there was no concept of trimūrti. What was famous in Vedic period was Brahman.

 

[Breathe]

actually there are two things with similar names in Sanatāna Dharma. 1 is Brahmā(who is part of trimuti, most myths are associated with this one). 2. Brahman, which is similar to G-d(Hashem) of Judaism.

I'm aware of the distinction between Brahmā and Brahman. I wouldn't consider Brahman to be the same as HaShem of Judaism, though. Brahman would probably be more like Ayn Sof.

You sort of mixed up 2 of them.

No, I didn't.

He is not worshiped in Buddhist nations also.

Actually, he is. I've known a fair few Buddhists in my time, and of them, I had some Japanese and Thai friends who would worship Brahmā.

Yes, I think so. He said he was a powerful deva in Vedic Hinduism,

He was; the Vedas are full of hymns to Brahmā.

in Vedic period there was no concept of trimūrti.

I'm aware of this. It's why I don't really think the trimūrti is a genuine doctrine. However, it is a popular one now.

 

[spiritualhitchhiker]

I'm aware of the distinction between Brahmā and Brahman. I wouldn't consider Brahman to be the same as HaShem of Judaism, though. Brahman would probably be more like Ayn Sof.

No, I didn't.

I think you did.

Actually, he is. I've known a fair few Buddhists in my time, and of them, I had some Japanese and Thai friends who would worship Brahmā.

He was; the Vedas are full of hymns to Brahmā.

Vedic hymns are mostly about Brahman not Brahmā.

I'm aware of this. It's why I don't really think the trimūrti is a genuine doctrine. However, it is a popular one now.

I think Brahmā was introduced with the concept of trimūrti.

 

[Breathe]

I think you did.

Pretty sure I didn't.

Vedic hymns are mostly about Brahman not Brahmā.

I think Brahmā was introduced with the concept of trimūrti.

Are you a Ārya Samāji or something? This at best, this is blatantly false. At worst, it's revisionist rubbish.

 

[spiritualhitchhiker]

Pretty sure I didn't.

Did you not say he was a deva mentioned in Vedas?

 

[Breathe]

Did you not say he was a deva mentioned in Vedas?

You don't think he is? :areyoucra

 

[spiritualhitchhiker]

You don't think he is? :areyoucra

"Brahman" is mentioned in Vedas. Not "Brahmā", the deva.

 

[Breathe]

"Brahman" is mentioned in Vedas. Not "Brahmā", the deva.

While Brahman may be mentioned, I believe that Brahmā is (albeit in a different name) within the Vedas; at the very least, the seed of his existence was there. That is, unless this is a reference to Brahmā like Ralph Griffiths believed:


(AVŚ_19,42.1a) bráhma hótā bráhma yajñā́ bráhmaṇā sváravo mitā́ḥ |
(AVŚ_19,42.1c) adhvaryúr bráhmaṇo jātó bráhmaṇo 'ntárhitaṃ havíḥ ||1||

(AVŚ_19,42.2a) bráhma srúco ghr̥távatīr bráhmaṇā védir úddhitā |
(AVŚ_19,42.2c) bráhma yajñásya táttvaṃ ca r̥tvíjo yé haviṣkŕ̥taḥ |
(AVŚ_19,42.2e) śamitā́ya svā́hā ||2||

(AVŚ_19,42.3a) aṃhomúce prá bhare manīṣā́m ā́ sutrā́vṇe sumatím āvr̥ṇānáḥ |
(AVŚ_19,42.3c) imám indra práti havyáṃ gr̥bhā́ya satyā́ḥ santu yájamānasya kā́māḥ ||3||

(AVŚ_19,42.4a) aṃhomúcaṃ vrṣabháṃ yajñíyānāṃ virā́jantaṃ prathamám adhvarā́ṇam |
(AVŚ_19,42.4c) apā́ṃ nápātam aśvínā huve dhíya indriyéṇa ta indriyáṃ dattam ójaḥ ||4||

- Atharva Veda, 19:42

1Brahma is Hotar, sacrifice: with Brahma are the stakes set up.
From Brahma was the Adhvaryu born, from Brahma hidden
offering.
2Brahma is fatness-dropping scoops: with Brahma was the altar
reared. p. 245
Brahma is worship, lengthened rite, the Rishis who pay sacrifice,
the victim's Immolators. Hail!
3To him who frees from woe mine hymn I offer, to the Good
Guardian, as I seek his favour.
Accept this offering of mine, O Indra. Fulfilled be all the sacri-
ficer's wishes!
4With prayer I call on him who frees from trouble, Prince of
Gods, Splendid, chief of sacrifices,
I call the Waters' Child and both the Asvins, Vigour is mine,
and strength bestowed by Indra.

Atharva Veda: Book 19: Hymn 42: In praise of Brahma, Prayer, or Devotion

Do you not take the hymns of Viśvakarman, Prajāpati, identified with Hiraṇyagarbha as being in reference to Brahmā deva?

Do you disagree with this quote, which identifies Brahmā with Puruṣa and Brahmaṇaspati/Bṛhaspati?

Brahmanaspati and Brihaspati of the Vedas and the Brahma of the Hindu Trinty are said to be one and the same god. He is also the Purusha of the early Rigvedic hymns, the product of sacrifice, from whom emerge the worlds, the beings and the social order.​

Source: http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/brahma.asp​

By the way, when I say a Vedic deity, I didn't necessarily mean within the Vedic scripture, as such, but within the Vedic society timeline.

 

[Riverwolf]

By the way, when I say a Vedic deity, I didn't necessarily mean within the Vedic scripture, as such, but within the Vedic society timeline.

Very well put.

An example of this is Lord Varuna. He has relatively few hymns in the Vedas compared to Indra, Agni, and Soma, but He is still believed to have been probably the Supreme God at one point in the Vedic society.

 

[Vinayaka]

I was born a Christian then a few months ago became a Muslim now I have decided to join a Dharmic faith, specifically the Sanatana Dharma or Hinduism. The thing is I am still a strong believer of the Abrahamic fgod yet I find no issue with Hindu teachings. I have personally read some of the Hindu texts and I like them. I personally wish to keep things like salah (the 5 daily acts of worship to Allah) in my religion as I find it the most best way to worship. And I also wish to ask if Hindu idolatry is TRUE idolatry? Are the idols themselves god or really representations of God?
I have found much fault in Islam and its constant requirement to be backed up by unnatural hadiths (traditions) that make no utter rational sense sometimes (no offense, I enjoy the Quran but not hadiths).
As of now I am religiously confused and wish to know If I can still worship Jehovah/Allah but still be a Hindu. I do not care about the doctrine of the Bible or Qu'ran as of now. I just want to know what can I expect from Hinduism or any of the Dharmic faiths. Can I be a follower of Dharmic doctrine yet still worship the god of Abraham? I have no issues being a Kalidasa lol. I feel that the doctrines of the Quran and Bible are suffocating and I cannot find peace in them.
I know syncretism(mixing faiths) sounds stupid but please help me as I am at a crisis of sorts I hope I have hurt no one :sorry1:

I see, as often is the case, your thread has gone off on some tangent, so I'll just address your first post here. You will find several different positions. Hinduism, otherwise known as Sanatana Dharma is vast. Personally, I am generally against syncretism on the grounds that it often leads to confusion. When there are two contradicting ideas, for example, which do you believe? This is found within all single religions, let alone when we try combining them. Is it heaven/hell or is it reincarnation is just one example, but there are many many more.

Best wishes in sorting it all out.

 

[Vinayaka]

But I have brother, been studying the doctrine of Sanatana Dharma before reading the Quran :run:
I find Hinduism more natural now. I use to be so fixated on Abrahamic faiths

Please listen to what what another poster said. Hinduism is EXTREMELY diverse. One cannot just 'study the doctrine' so to speak. It involves a whole lot more. Scriptural study is just one part of it, and many, including me, would say its a small part at that. There is a lifestyle, tons of ethics, temple worship, private spiritual sadhana (practices) and much more. You can't just pick up a book, read it, and understand. You have to EXPERIENCE it.

 

[FearGod]

I was born a Christian then a few months ago became a Muslim now I have decided to join a Dharmic faith, specifically the Sanatana Dharma or Hinduism. The thing is I am still a strong believer of the Abrahamic fgod yet I find no issue with Hindu teachings. I have personally read some of the Hindu texts and I like them. I personally wish to keep things like salah (the 5 daily acts of worship to Allah) in my religion as I find it the most best way to worship. And I also wish to ask if Hindu idolatry is TRUE idolatry? Are the idols themselves god or really representations of God?
I have found much fault in Islam and its constant requirement to be backed up by unnatural hadiths (traditions) that make no utter rational sense sometimes (no offense, I enjoy the Quran but not hadiths).
As of now I am religiously confused and wish to know If I can still worship Jehovah/Allah but still be a Hindu. I do not care about the doctrine of the Bible or Qu'ran as of now. I just want to know what can I expect from Hinduism or any of the Dharmic faiths. Can I be a follower of Dharmic doctrine yet still worship the god of Abraham? I have no issues being a Kalidasa lol. I feel that the doctrines of the Quran and Bible are suffocating and I cannot find peace in them.
I know syncretism(mixing faiths) sounds stupid but please help me as I am at a crisis of sorts I hope I have hurt no one :sorry1:

it isn't a food recipe

pick one religion according to what you believe.

You left christianity and islam,so IMO you should forget everything about them if you got convident that they don't match your thoughts.

Study other religions with my best wishes that you'll find the best one for you

 

[ShadowsAndDust]

it isn't a food recipe

pick one religion according to what you believe.

You left christianity and islam,so IMO you should forget everything about them if you got convident that they don't match your thoughts.

Study other religions with my best wishes that you'll find the best one for you

Wow my thread is still going on? I am irreligious now actually (just came back to the forum). I do not require peace in my life along with love and morals and I quite religions all together. I believe in god but I just do not believe in the basic aspects religions try to preach which is basically all of them.

 

[Jainarayan]

Can I be a follower of Dharmic doctrine yet still worship the god of Abraham?

To the best of my knowledge, as a non-scholar of Dharmic faiths, Dharma consists at its very fundamental level several principles:

Ahimsa: non-violence, inflicting no injury or harm to others or even to one's own self, it goes as far as nonviolence in thought, word and deed.

Satya: truth in word and thought.

Asteya: non-covetousness, to the extent that one should not even desire something that is his own.

Brahmacharya: abstinence, particularly in the case of sexual activity. It does not necessary imply celibacy. Rather, responsible behavior with respect to our goal of moving toward the truth. It suggests that we should form relationships that foster our understanding of the highest truths. "Practicing brahmacharya means that we use our sexual energy to regenerate our connection to our spiritual self. It also means that we don’t use this energy in any way that might harm others."

Aparigraha: non-possessiveness

Shaucha: cleanliness of body and mind.

Santosha: satisfaction; satisfied with what one has.

Tapas: austerity and associated observances for body discipline and thereby mental control.

Svadhyaya: study of the Vedic scriptures to know about God and the soul, which leads to introspection on a greater awakening to the soul and God within,
Ishvarapranidhana: surrender to (or worship of) God.

Asana: Discipline of the body: rules and postures to keep it disease-free and for preserving vital energy. Correct postures are a physical aid to meditation, for they control the limbs and nervous system and prevent them from producing disturbances.

Pranayama: control of breath. Beneficial to health, steadies the body and is highly conducive to the concentration of the mind.

Pratyahara: withdrawal of senses from their external objects.

I primarily believe in the worship of one supreme god, Brahman as hindu's would say. I wish to retain Islamic practices like salat but I wish to worship only 1 supreme god which in my eyes is no different then Brahman.

Many Hindus perform prayer at several points in the day... at dawn, midday, dusk. There may be other auspicious times too.

The way I see it, I am sure Jesus had hindu or buddhist influences.

A lot of what he taught is similar to the Yamas and Niyamas (listed above).

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

This eliminates getting bogged down by rules and regulations that we follow "because we should", but don't understand them.