Faith in God

[ecco]

There is evidence God exists. One of the best is the remarkable fulfilled Messianic prophecies of Jesus from the Old Testament cited in the Gospels and elsewhere.

Please list one clear unambiguous fulfilled prophecy.

The prophecy cannot contain anything that can be ascribed to hoping or guessing and it must be specific. Something like "a Messiah will come from the House of Job" does not cut it.


ETA: Fron your link:
We considered the following eight prophecies:

1. "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting" (Micah 5:2).

This prophecy predicts that the Christ is to be born in Bethlehem. Since this is the first prophecy to be considered there are no previously set restrictions, so our question is: One man in how many, the world over, has been born in Bethlehem?
​

Just a really quick reading shows it is nonsense. Jesus never became "ruler in Israel".

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Those that choose to live for the world, will never find useful evidence.

So, it's magic, then? And your god is incapable of being convincing to anyone who is skeptical?

Gotcha. Not much of a god, is it? Either it's grossly weak and incompetent? (cannot be convincing)

Or?

It's grossly evil-- deliberately withholding evidence.

Which is it?

(or simply doesn't exist)

 

[ecco]

Which is why i specifically stated (religious) faith

Conveniently, no... accurately, yes.

Some religious people love to conflate the two different definitions of "faith" as and when it suits their purpose. I could be kind and say they do it out of ignorance.

"My having faith - Confident or unquestioning belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a
person, idea, or thing - that the airplane will fly" is not the same as "I have faith - strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof - in a god".

Other words that have two distinctly different meanings.

• Crane
• Date
• Engaged
• Foil
• Leaves
• Net
• Point

 

[ecco]

and that is the power of love has over people, even people of reason sometime go mad. i am a servant to love

The Power of Love
Huey Lewis and the News
The power of love is a curious thing
Make a one man weep, make another man sing
Change a heart to a little white dove
More than a feeling, that's the power of love
Tougher than diamonds, whips like cream
Stronger and harder than a bad girls dream
Make a bad one good, mmm make a wrong right
Power of love will keep you home at night
Don't need money, don't take fame
Don't need no credit card to ride this train
It's strong and it's sudden and it's cruel sometimes
But it might just save your life
That's the power of love
That's the power of love
First time you feed it might make you sad
Next time you feed it might make you mad
But you'll be glad baby when you've found
That's the power that makes the world go round
Don't need money, don't take fame
Don't need no credit card to ride this train
It's strong and it's sudden and it's cruel sometimes
But it might just save your life
They say that all in love is fair
Yeah but you don't care
But you know what to do
When it gets hold of you
And with a little help from above
You feel the power of love
You feel the power of love
Can you feel it?
Don't take money, don't take fame
Don't need no credit card to ride this train
Tougher than diamonds and stronger than steel
You won't feel it until you feel
You feel the power, feel the power of love
That's the power, that's the power of love
You feel the power of love
You feel the power of love
You feel the power of love
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Huey Lewis / Chris Hayes / John Colla

 

[ecco]

I already gave you some direct examples from the Bible of why your modern definition of "faith" is inconsistent with what the Bible says faith is. Logically, if the Bible introduces a concept to us, then the Bible gets to define for us what that means by it's context and definitions.

Now all you have to do is show that the Bible introduced the concept of "faith".
I don't see that in the following.

faith | Origin and meaning of faith by Online Etymology Dictionary
faith (n.)
mid-13c., faith, feith, fei, fai "faithfulness to a trust or promise; loyalty to a person; honesty, truthfulness," from Anglo-French and Old French feid, foi "faith, belief, trust, confidence; pledge" (11c.), from Latin fides "trust, faith, confidence, reliance, credence, belief," from root of fidere "to trust,"from PIE root *bheidh- "to trust, confide, persuade." For sense evolution, see belief. Accommodated to other English abstract nouns in -th (truth, health, etc.).

From early 14c. as "assent of the mind to the truth of a statement for which there is incomplete evidence," especially "belief in religious matters" (matched with hope and charity). Since mid-14c. in reference to the Christian church or religion; from late 14c. in reference to any religious persuasion.



And faith is neither the submission of the reason, nor is it the acceptance, simply and absolutely upon testimony, of what reason cannot reach. Faith is: the being able to cleave to a power of goodness appealing to our higher and real self, not to our lower and apparent self. [Matthew Arnold, "Literature & Dogma," 1873]


From late 14c. as "confidence in a person or thing with reference to truthfulness or reliability," also "fidelity of one spouse to another." Also in Middle English "a sworn oath," hence its frequent use in Middle English oaths and asseverations (par ma fay, mid-13c.; bi my fay, c. 1300).

*bheidh-
Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to trust, confide, persuade."​

In any case, as has been pointed out, we are no longer living in the bronze age and Hebrew and Latin are not our current language.

 

[Uncommon Sense]

All I can speak of are personal experiences from trusting in a good intuitive device inside that hasn’t steered me wrong for years ~ spending a lot of quiet quality time alone ~ but rather all of the changes and transformations inside, the new awarenesses. World of judgement completely changed. I don’t think that it matters whether I call it god ~ I just know that this device has been good to me after all of my own ways and indoctrination’s led to a lot of disasters. If someone were able to jump into my mind or body ~ that’s the only way they would know or understand.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Do you have faith in God?

While I can appreciate such faith in the presence of evidence, in the absence of any evidence (experiential, empirical, or objective), why do you have faith?

The reality is that faith is never a reliable path to ascertaining truth. Absolutely any absurd claim can be taken on faith. Two people are capable of having equal amounts of faith in ideas that are diametrically opposed. Those who accept significant claims on faith demonstrate that they have no desire to believe things that are genuinely true.

Personally I prefer to believe as many things that are genuinely true as possible and to avoid believing in as many things that aren't genuinely true as I can.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, it's magic, then? And your god is incapable of being convincing to anyone who is skeptical?

Gotcha. Not much of a god, is it? Either it's grossly weak and incompetent? (cannot be convincing)

Or?

It's grossly evil-- deliberately withholding evidence.

Which is it?

(or simply doesn't exist)

Neither. God allows you the heart you have chosen. Thus one lives in their chosen conscious reality, or they chose to pursue the Love and knowledge of God. If you were interested, you would know and the Quran offers this about our search;

The quran 40:28 "And a believing man from the family of Pharaoh who concealed his faith said, "Do you kill a man [merely] because he says, 'My Lord is Allah ' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he should be lying, then upon him is [the consequence of] his lie; but if he should be truthful, there will strike you some of what he promises you. Indeed, Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar."

The Messenger is the Proof of God. Ample proof.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

These two statement appear to contradict each other.

No, not really, because someone 'believing' that they experienced God is not evidence to anyone except that person.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Faith is built on nothing but evidence.

If it was not, then Faith would be very weak with no foundation, easily broken.

Regards Tony

I suppose that's true, considering that there are some people out there who consider the burnt image on their piece of toast that happens to look like it could be Jesus as 'evidence' of their religious beliefs. In fact, it seems to me that faith enables people to view virtually anything as 'evidence' for their beliefs.

It really all depends on how low a threshold a person has for what they consider to be verifiable evidence.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I suppose that's true, considering that there are some people out there who consider the burnt image on their piece of toast that happens to look like it could be Jesus as 'evidence' of their religious beliefs. In fact, it seems to me that faith enables people to view virtually anything as 'evidence' for their beliefs.

It really all depends on how low a threshold a person has for what they consider to be verifiable evidence.

That is why in this age science and religion are both required.

To me an image on a piece of toast is faith built on sand, at low tide, all with a pending force 5 hurricane.

Faith in this age is the strongest ever, as it is built upon science and reason. One can ask the Muslims of Persia if they managed to quash the belief of the Bab'i and Baha'i Faith.

It is not my task to convince any person as to what they see as a proof based in sound logic and reasoning. I can only show what I found and why I have concluded what I have.

Regards Tony

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Neither. God allows you the heart you have chosen. .

ABSOLUTELY FALSE-- I could no more fabricate "faith" than YOU could "choose" to suddenly become green-skinned.

I have chosen NOTHING. My lack of faith came from the 100% lack of FACT.

So you cannot deny reality by VICTIM BLAMING:

Either? Your god is Grossly Incompetent?

Or Maliciously Evil.

The Messenger is the Proof of God. Ample proof.

Regards Tony

Maliciously Evil it is, then.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

ABSOLUTELY FALSE-- I could no more fabricate "faith" than YOU could "choose" to suddenly become green-skinned.

I have chosen NOTHING. My lack of faith came from the 100% lack of FACT.

So you cannot deny reality by VICTIM BLAMING:

Either? Your god is Grossly Incompetent?

Or Maliciously Evil.



Maliciously Evil it is, then.

Or what was offered is true and you have proved what was offered 100%.

It is all in our own frames of references and we choose to see life as we do.

I wish you always well and happy. What a great day to live in.

Regards Tony

 

[Prestor John]

How weird!

There is no evidence for the love I feel toward my wife and children.

 

[Spartan]

Please list one clear unambiguous fulfilled prophecy.

The prophecy cannot contain anything that can be ascribed to hoping or guessing and it must be specific. Something like "a Messiah will come from the House of Job" does not cut it.


ETA: Fron your link:
We considered the following eight prophecies:

1. "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting" (Micah 5:2).

This prophecy predicts that the Christ is to be born in Bethlehem. Since this is the first prophecy to be considered there are no previously set restrictions, so our question is: One man in how many, the world over, has been born in Bethlehem?
​

Just a really quick reading shows it is nonsense. Jesus never became "ruler in Israel".

The nonsense is yours. You fail to account for the Second Coming when Christ will rule.

But Jesus - the "manna from heaven" - was born in Bethlehem - the House of Bread.

 

[JJ50]

There is no evidence for the love I feel toward my wife and children.

Does that mean you don't treat them right?

 

[Prestor John]

Does that mean you don't treat them right?

Irrelevant.

Even sociopaths can treat people right.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you have faith in God?

While I can appreciate such faith in the presence of evidence, in the absence of any evidence (experiential, empirical, or objective), why do you have faith?

God as it is said is a Spirit and there is overwhelming spiritual proof that God exists.

We perceive God through our spiritual senses such as the eyes of insight and the ears of understanding. Spiritual perception is on another level much higher than the intellect and once the spirit in man becomes awakened to the existence of God He is in no further need of intellectual proofs.

 

[JJ50]

God as it is said is a Spirit and there is overwhelming spiritual proof that God exists.

We perceive God through our spiritual senses such as the eyes of insight and the ears of understanding. Spiritual perception is on another level much higher than the intellect and once the spirit in man becomes awakened to the existence of God He is in no further need of intellectual proofs.

There is no proof god exists, outside of the human mind, no one has ever produced any which is verifiable.

 

[Spartan]

There is no proof god exists, outside of the human mind, no one has ever produced any which is verifiable.

There has been zero scientific proof that God and the supernatural do not and cannot exist.