Ajax
Active Member
If you have faith in God you believe that he would never do something wrong. If you have the same faith with the driver, you will probably be killed.
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Faith is being sure...
- Thread starter jimb
- Start date
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
Faith has nothing to do with what I believe God would never do.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The world is not going to end. That translation has since been corrected to say end of the age, and most Bible translations say that now.
It was the age that Jesus said was going to come to an end, not the world.
The age did end when Christ returned with a new name in the mid-19th century.
Judgement Day is now upon us all.
The Day of Judgment
NKJV
So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
NCV
It will be this way at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the evil people from the good people.
NET
It will be this way at the end of the age. Angels will come and separate the evil from the righteous
NIRV
This is how it will be on judgment day. The angels will come. They will separate the people who did what is wrong from those who did what is right.
NIV
This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous
The "harvest", "end of the age", is when the angels come to gather the "tares" "first" and then "burn them up" (Matthew 13:30). The "burn them up" will be with regards to Matthew 24:21, the "great tribulation", or in the words of Revelation 16:16, Har-Magedon, or with respect to Joel 2:31-32, the "day of the Lord". Whereas the "end of the age" is when the "harvest" occurs (Mt 13:40) Mr. Baha, died around 1892, and had no impact on anyone except his son, and apparently you.
King James Bible Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
New American Standard Bible Matthew 13:40
So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That's an interesting thought because we may not understand some things (in the Bible) but faith in God would help us to overcome obstacles.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Christ spoke much in parables about a great Day of Judgment when “the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father … and … shall reward every man according to his works” (Matt. xvi, 27). He compares this Day to the time of harvest, when the tares are burned and the wheat gathered into barns:—
… so shall it be in the end of this world [consummation of the age]. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.—Matt. xiii, 40–43.
The phrase “end of the world” used in the Authorized Version of the Bible in this and similar passages has led many to suppose that when the Day of Judgment comes, the earth will suddenly be destroyed, but this is evidently a mistake. The 220 true translation of the phrase appears to be “the consummation or end of the age.” Christ teaches that the Kingdom of the Father is to be established on earth, as well as in heaven. He teaches us to pray: “Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” In the parable of the Vineyard, when the Father, the Lord of the Vineyard, comes to destroy the wicked husbandmen, He does not destroy the vineyard (the world) also, but lets it out to other husbandmen, who will render Him the fruits in their season. The earth is not to be destroyed, but to be renewed and regenerated. Christ speaks of that day on another occasion as “the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory.” St. Peter speaks of it as “the times of refreshing,” “the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” The Day of Judgment of which Christ speaks is evidently identical with the coming of the Lord of Hosts, the Father, which was prophesied by Isaiah and the other Old Testament prophets; a time of terrible punishment for the wicked, but a time in which justice shall be established and righteousness rule, on earth as in heaven.
Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, pp. 219-220
You are living in a bubble. The Baha'i Faith is the second most widespread religion in the world, closely trailing Christianity, and all this happened from 1844-1944 AD.
Statistics show that from 1910-2010, the Baha’i Faith grew at a rate of 3.54%, whereas during that time Islam grew at a rate of 1.97% and Christianity grew at a rate of 1.32%.
From 2000-2010 Islam became the fastest growing religion (1.86 %) and the Baha’i Faith was the second fastest growing religion (1.72%).
Statistics from: Growth of religion - Wikipedia
The growth rates of the Baha’i Faith were higher than Islam from 1910 to 2010 because it includes the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944) FOURTH PERIOD: THE INCEPTION OF THE FORMATIVE AGE OF THE BAHÁ’Í FAITH 1921–1944
The goal of the Baha’i Faith administration has not always been to increase numbers of adherents but rather to expand to as many locations as possible around the world. These goals have been met. The Baha’i Faith has spread to over 250 countries and territories and is almost as widespread as Christianity. Most of this happened during the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944)
Growth of the Baha’i Faith has slowed down since 2000 because the new goal is consolidation and community building, so the emphasis is not spreading the Faith all over the world as it was before in the 20th century.
Harvest time is the same time as the Day of Judgment when the wheat are separated from the chaff.
Those who recognize Baha'u'llah and follow Him are the wheat and those who reject Baha'u'llah are the chaff.
In the Bahá’í interpretation, the coming of each Manifestation of God is a Day of Judgment, but the coming of the supreme Manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh is the great Day of Judgment for the world cycle in which we are living. The trumpet blast of which Christ and Muhammad and many other prophets speak is the call of the Manifestation, which is sounded for all who are in heaven and on earth—the embodied and the disembodied. The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity.
Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, p. 220
It was the same when Jesus appeared in earth. Those who recognized Jesus and followed Him were the wheat and those who rejected Jesus were the chaff.
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MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
Faithful romance is the correlation between love and sex, and faith in life ahimsa to the wish to be.
Ajax
Active Member
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but the problem with scripture is that many of its possible interpretations (including most of the literal ones) can be used to justify falsehoods, contradictions and atrocities, in defense of the faith.
Your "Baha" was a little too inclusive as to have the "many to suppose... the earth will be destroyed", for the most assume that Revelation is correct, and that only 2/3 of the earth will be destroyed, and then there will be a millennium, whereas "the Word of God" will rule with a rod of iron for 1000 years (Rev 19:15). And those who believe the prophets, that the "nations"/Gentiles will be ruled by the king who reigns in Jerusalem (Zech 14), and the nations/Gentiles will have come to Jerusalem every year to bow down to the king.
In 2020, there were apparently 8 million followers of Baha. There are around 1 billion "Christians". I have lived in Africa, Southeast Asia, and traveled in South America, and been to a great number of U.S. states, and this forum is the only contact with the "Baha" faith I have knowingly come across. Tiptoe through the tulips Apart from the California Hearst family matriarchy bankrolling Baha's son, I don't think there would be any remnant of your faith. q=Baha%27i+Faith+is+the+second+most+widespread+religion+in+the+world&form=ANNTH1&refig=B140A8A688814236AC141F4FCB2BFEB7&pc=U531
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There are 2.4 billion Christians in the world, but so what?
Christianity is very large because it has been around for 2100 years. By stark contrast, the Baha'i Faith has only been around for about 160 years.
“Just how small was the Christian movement in the first century is clear from the calculations of the sociologist R Stark (1996:5-7; so too Hopkins 1998:192-193).Stark begins his analysis with a rough estimation of six million Christians in the Roman Empire (or about ten percent of the total population) at the start of the fourth century... There were 1,000 Christians in the year 40, 1,400 Christians in 50, 1,960 Christians in 60, 2,744 Christians in 70, 3,842 Christians in 80, 5,378 Christians in 90 and 7,530 Christians at the end of the first century.
These figures are very suggestive, and reinforce the point that in its initial decades the Christian movement represented a tiny fraction of the ancient world.”
How many Jews became Christians in the first century?
There were only 7,350 Christians at the end of the first century. There were 5 million Baha'is at the end of the first century.
The fact that you had not heard of the Baha'i Faith means one of two things:
(1) the Baha'is are not doing a good enough job of getting the message out, or (2) you have your head in the sand.
The Baha'i Faith is the fastest growing religion in the world, closely trailing Islam. Islam has been around a lot longer which explains its higher growth rate.
Statistics show that from 1910-2010, the Baha’i Faith grew at a rate of 3.54%, whereas during that time Islam grew at a rate of 1.97% and Christianity grew at a rate of 1.32%.
From 2000-2010 Islam became the fastest growing religion (1.86 %) and the Baha’i Faith was the second fastest growing religion (1.72%).
Statistics from: Growth of religion
Well, there are around 1 billion Muslims, and their religion supposedly started around the early 7th century, and according to their narrative, they conquered the Byzantines, Egypt, North Africa, and the Persians within 100 years, subjugating most of all those territories, and creating a Caliph of sorts. All the Bahas had to work with was the money of the California Hearst family, and yet with all that money, they have converted few, and conquered fewer.
According to the Islamic narrative, the Muslims took over northern Africa, the eastern realm of the Byzantines, Persia, and Egypt, all within 100 years. Baha died in 1892, over 100 years ago, and they now number less than the population of the city of New York. Their numbers seem highest in poorer countries, where Marxist type of propaganda seems to do the best, and were they have the highest birth rates.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I have no idea what you are talking about. Baha'is rely upon donations from enrolled Baha'is only, as only an enrolled Baha'i can contribute to the Baha'i Fund.
The Baha'i Faith has no desire to conquer and convert, the way Christianity did.
Baha'is do not seek to convert people to the Faith the way Christians try to convert people to Christianity.
We teach the Faith to those who are interested but the Baha'i administration does not use Fund resources to teach the Faith. Baha'is are generally on their own to teach the Faith and it is all voluntary.
In the early stages of the Baha faith, the son of Baha went to California, where he turned the head of the Hearst matriarchal woman, and most everyone in America knows about the wealth of the Hearst family and its influence. The mother religion of the Baha was the Muslim religion, whose purpose is to bring in the world ruling caliphate. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Muslim community spread through the Middle East through conquest, and the resulting growth of the Muslim state provided the ground in which the recently revealed faith could take root and flourish.
There is no way to know how long it will take for the Baha'i Faith to grow larger, but it will not grow the same way that Christianity grew because it cannot become an official religion associated with any government, nor can it grow through conquest, as happened with Islam. The only way the Baha'i Faith will grow is through Baha'is teaching the Faith, but it is very difficult for us because we are bucking a headwind given Christianity and Islam are not willing to give up their turf, and the same can be said for all the older religions. People normally only become Baha'is because they have the same vision, the oneness of humanity, the oneness of religion, and unity of mankind, and they want to be part of the solution to the world's spiritual, social, and economic problems. They do not become Baha'is because of a promise of heaven; although that is the natural outcome that is not why we do what we do.
So what? Numbers are not indicators of what is true. To claim that is to commit the fallacy of argumentum ad populum
In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."
This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia
The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
There are reasons why few people find it.
If you use logic and reason, you would realize that few people find the narrow gate and even fewer people enter through it because it is narrow, so it is difficult to get through...
It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel.... and that is why the NEW religion is always rejected by most people for a very long time after it has been revealed.
The recipe for the Arabs to conquer the Romans and the Persians, was because of the revolt of the poorly treated Arabs in their realms. The Arabs in Persia simply turned on their tyrannical Persian rulers for high taxes, and the same happened for the Byzantine eastern provinces. All they needed was another feather on the camel's back. The Arabs simply promised to tax at a lower rate, which finally changed that only non-Muslims had to be tax at all, which brought about your bought and paid for conversions.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The money that the Baha'i Faith has comes strictly from donations by Baha'is. This has always been the case.
Baha'u'llah broke away from Islam after He got His revelation from God. That is why Baha'u'llah was persecuted by the Muslims in power, exiled and banished from His native land of Persia. The Baha'i Faith has no desire to rule the world.
The coming "king" is to rule from the land given to Jacob/Israel (Ezekiel 37:25). Why did the Baha's choose Israel to set up their world center building? Baha was of Muslim roots, based out of Iran. As for the Hearst family, what makes you think that the Hearst matriarch wasn't part of the Baha faith? Are the Baha's limited to Iranians? Why did Baha's son go to California?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not know a lot of Baha'i history but below is one answer I found:
The Baha’is were stuck / exiled in the prison city of Akko for umpteen years. when they were allowed to walk in and out of Akko city, Baha’u’llah made visits to Haifa and told Abdu’l Baha where is the place for the remains of the Bab to be laid to rest. The place — a cluster of pine trees — where both stood is conserved. it is just behind the shrine of the Bab.
The outline of Baha’i administration for the world was foreseen and planned since that day. Slowly, things evolved, properties / land were purchased and the administrative order began to shape up in Haifa. Akko continued to be used too for various purposes.
what we see today on the slopes of Mount Carmel is effort of umpteen years of planning, liaising with city officials and on going construction and improvements.
when Israel was declared an independent state in 1948 — relationship with the new Israeli government continued on very good and friendly terms till today. And it will be so for more centuries.
in a way, it looks like divine intercession took place — thanks to the ottomans and persian governments then, the Baha’is have found a most congenial spot on earth.
Why is the Baha'i Global Center in Israel, www.bwc.org/?
I did not say that the Hearst matriarch wasn't part of the Baha'i Faith.
Phoebe Hearst was one of the earliest of those in the United States to accept the Baha'i Faith.
Phoebe Hearst – Bahai Chronicles
bahaichronicles.org
Phoebe Apperson Hearst, "Mother of the Faithful"
Phoebe Hearst was one of the earliest of those in the United States to accept the Baha'i Faith. During 1898 and 1899 she brought the first group of fifteen Western Baha'i pilgrims to the Holy Land. During His stay in California 'Abdu'l-Baha accepted Mrs. Hearst's invitation to visit her and He...
Abdu'l-Baha went all over America. He called on America to become a land of spiritual distinction and leadership and gave a powerful vision of America’s spiritual destiny
Abdul-Baha’s Journey Across America
In 1912, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, the son of the founder of the Bahá’í Faith, traveled from coast to coast across America after a lifetime of imprisonment and persecution. He called on America to become a land of spiritual distinction and leadership and gave a powerful vision of America’s spiritual destiny...