Faith Isn't Knowledge...Nor Should It Be

[Valjean]

Faith is conscious knowledge? But that makes no sense. Knowledge is always conscious, else you wouldn't "know" it. So it essentially equates faith and knowledge as synonymous, which they clearly aren't.
But Abdu'l Baha then goes on to declare faith "the practice of good deeds." This is even wider the mark.

No. "Faith," as it is ordinarily used, is belief without evidence.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

>Faith isn't knowledge--nor should it be.

On the contrary, the Baha'i scriptures state explicitly:

"Faith is conscious knowledge!"

Best!

Bruce

Oh... well, if a religious scripture says it, then that settles it.

Just for anyone who's keeping score, so far we've been told that faith is:

- the substance of reality
- the basis of wisdom
- "conscious knowledge"

... and we've been given no reasoning that backs any of this up.

I'm starting to think of adding my own definition for "faith":

- a vague thing that religious people have decided they like, but can't define to the point that you can tell what they're actually talking about.

 

[Walkntune]

Oh... well, if a religious scripture says it, then that settles it.

Just for anyone who's keeping score, so far we've been told that faith is:

- the substance of reality
- the basis of wisdom
- "conscious knowledge"

... and we've been given no reasoning that backs any of this up.

I'm starting to think of adding my own definition for "faith":

- a vague thing that religious people have decided they like, but can't define to the point that you can tell what they're actually talking about.

Heres a quote you can stand on.
“You may be deceived if you trust too much, But you live in torment if you don’t trust enough.”

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Heres a quote you can stand on.
“You may be deceived if you trust too much, But you live in torment if you don’t trust enough.”

To me, that sounds a lot like "I'd rather be happy than right." I don't share this view.

And in fact, I've found from my own personal experience that putting unwarranted trust in things causes more "torment" than the alternative.

 

[Walkntune]

To me, that sounds a lot like "I'd rather be happy than right." I don't share this view.

And in fact, I've found from my own personal experience that putting unwarranted trust in things causes more "torment" than the alternative.

Wisdom does not operate in right or wrong but in truth.This is where the duality of the mind operates as a whole and sees everything as a whole.
It is better to walk in love and in truth then to walk in right or wrong.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

“You may be deceived if you trust too much, But you live in torment if you don’t trust enough.”

Trust must be earned.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wisdom does not operate in right or wrong but in truth.This is where the duality of the mind operates as a whole and sees everything as a whole.
It is better to walk in love and in truth then to walk in right or wrong.

Word salad.

And in the context I was using the term, "right" is synonymous with "true" or "correct".

 

[Willamena]

Word salad.

And in the context I was using the term, "right" is synonymous with "true" or "correct".

People trying to communicate with you is not "word salad." If you don't get what's said, it may be a better tactic to just ask.

 

[Walkntune]

Word salad.

And in the context I was using the term, "right" is synonymous with "true" or "correct".

Still not the same truth. Real truth comes from being and not doing.Truth from someone trying to be correct is right or wrong from someone who is dictated by their thoughts.
Real truth can only be found when someone learns to dictate their thoughts.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

People trying to communicate with you is not "word salad."

And I don't think that Walkntune's last few posts are examples of a person "trying to communicate".

If you don't get what's said, it may be a better tactic to just ask.

If I thought it would do any good, I might have.

And I did ask. I've asked many times in this thread for people to explain what they're saying when they use vague terms like this. When someone posts vague fortune cookie-type pronouncements in response to my frustrated requests for people to say what they mean clearly and back up what they say, it's very hard for me to believe that they're interested in honest dialogue.

 

[Walkntune]

People trying to communicate with you is not "word salad." If you don't get what's said, it may be a better tactic to just ask.

Thank you.Its ok though as I know he is not speaking from a place of truth.

 

[Willamena]

And I don't think that Walkntune's last few posts are examples of a person "trying to communicate".


If I thought it would do any good, I might have.

And I did ask. I've asked many times in this thread for people to explain what they're saying when they use vague terms like this. When someone posts vague fortune cookie-type pronouncements in response to my frustrated requests for people to say what they mean clearly and back up what they say, it's very hard for me to believe that they're interested in honest dialogue.

Touche.

If it helps, he's describing what's commonly known as the state of enlightenment. Being "wise" is approaching the world from that perspective.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thank you.Its ok though as I know he is not speaking from a place of truth.

Yes, that's it. You're either unable or unwilling to explain what you mean, but this is a failing on my part.

 

[Willamena]

Yes, that's it. You're either unable or unwilling to explain what you mean, but this is a failing on my part.

In a way, it is. Yours is the perspective that's different.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In a way, it is. Yours is the perspective that's different.

Everyone's perspective is different. Effective communication takes this into account.

 

[Walkntune]

And I don't think that Walkntune's last few posts are examples of a person "trying to communicate".


If I thought it would do any good, I might have.

And I did ask. I've asked many times in this thread for people to explain what they're saying when they use vague terms like this. When someone posts vague fortune cookie-type pronouncements in response to my frustrated requests for people to say what they mean clearly and back up what they say, it's very hard for me to believe that they're interested in honest dialogue.

Sorry I am very right brained and communicate as honest as I can from that perspective.

 

[Walkntune]

Touche.

If it helps, he's describing what's commonly known as the state of enlightenment. Being "wise" is approaching the world from that perspective.

You seem wise and intelligent!

 

[sandy whitelinger]

.."faith is the substance of reality"...

Aha, the source of the confusion. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It sounds good if you say it fast and don't think about it too much though.

Actually things sound much more profound if you say them verrry slowly.

 

[Willamena]

You seem wise and intelligent!

Wise enough not to debate people about "wisdom."