Faith

[Desert Snake]

Untill you gain wisdom from the teachings there are some faith, but Buddhism is not faith in the same senese as Christianity has become. Buddhists read the text and say, Hmm can i find this is my daily life? then one go out seeing it for one self, ok no more faith it become true.
So faith become not needed when you do your homework (study again and again ) yes it take time before the wisdom arise, but when it does you see so clearly

Yes, that is in religious study. Generally.

The concept, not necessarily the desire, or purpose.

 

[Nakosis]

Believing in Santa clause made me feel good, gave me hope, provided a sense of security when i done right.

Faith made me believe in Santa Clause, without faith i would have been sensible and looked further into it.

Yeah, Christmas is one of my least favorite holidays anymore.

 

[Desert Snake]

The reply is about as informed as Disciple's comment about Buddha being an idol.

You can obfuscate or call it whatever you want. However don't obfuscate what I wrote, which was, chanting to a statue is a form of 'faith'.

If it isn't, then the word is wrong, which could be also. The word would be wrong however in the argument or discussion itself, not just for chanting to a statue.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I have statues myself, [different beings.

However interesting to note you don't make the connection to faith, when they chant to a statue, etc. Because I do. That's called 'faith', in some form, and why religions are called 'faiths'.

I have also two buddha statues, not because i worship them or pray to them or chant to them. But because of i got them from my friends. But the buddha is not in the statue so no need to chant to them in my understanding, but if you like doing it then ofcourse you can continue

 

[Brickjectivity]

You can obfuscate or call it whatever you want. However don't obfuscate what I wrote, which was, chanting to a statue is a form of 'faith'.

If it isn't, then the word is wrong, which could be also. The word would be wrong however in the argument or discussion itself, not just for chanting to a statue.

Ok

 

[viole]

Faith is like a rock being held in a mans fist, he claims he holds a rock, you say open your fist, he say no have faith i am holding it, and you are content with that.

A Buddhist will simply ask that the hand be opened, until then do you hold a rock, maybe.

You may but without opening the hand there is absolutly no proof, faith was a word created to justify the belief in something without a shred of evidence.

Faith is the belief in things we know they ain’t true. (M. Twain)

Ciao

- viole

 

[Desert Snake]

I have also two buddha statues, not because i worship them or pray to them or chant to them. But because of i got them from my friends. But the buddha is not in the statue so no need to chant to them in my understanding, but if you like doing it then ofcourse you can continue

No, I believe there is something wrong with the wording, here. The argument isn't matching the way ""christians""" practice, basically.


Anyways...

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, I believe there is something wrong with the wording, here. The argument isn't matching the way ""christians""" practice, basically.


Anyways...

What do you mean? The meaning of the words i used is wrong? Buddhism and Christians see things differently that i know

 

[Desert Snake]

What do you mean? The meaning of the words i used is wrong? Buddhism and Christians see things differently that i know

No, the original argument wording.

The thread argument seems to presume some things.

 

[Sky Rivers]

Faith is like a rock being held in a mans fist, he claims he holds a rock, you say open your fist, he say no have faith i am holding it, and you are content with that.

A Buddhist will simply ask that the hand be opened, until then do you hold a rock, maybe.

You may but without opening the hand there is absolutly no proof, faith was a word created to justify the belief in something without a shred of evidence.

Biblically, faith is...

Hebrews 11:1-6 KJV
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[2] For by it the elders obtained a good report.

[3] Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

[4] By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

[5] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him : for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

(Read all of Hebrews 11 for greater understanding).

 

[sealchan]

Faith is like a rock being held in a mans fist, he claims he holds a rock, you say open your fist, he say no have faith i am holding it, and you are content with that.

A Buddhist will simply ask that the hand be opened, until then do you hold a rock, maybe.

You may but without opening the hand there is absolutly no proof, faith was a word created to justify the belief in something without a shred of evidence.

You cannot live on proven truths alone. But you might say that whatever happens just proved it could happen. Still no one knows fully nor satisfactorily what will happen. So we have faith.

You cant make a move without faith.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I believe there is faith and that faith leads to ‘knowing’ a new level of consciousness the Bahai Writings call ‘Certitude’ which is a form of enlightenment.

But I believe it cannot be proven because it cannot be shared according to spiritual laws.

According to karma or such laws of justice you cannot receive the reward for anothers actions. So if I have purified my heart and become detached and sincere and find truth you have no right to that truth and cannot possibly realise it until you become detached and your heart purified for these are spiritual laws based on justice. You don’t receive my pay for the work I’ve done. Only when you do the work then you get paid for it.

But if you had done the work of purifying your heart and I had too then we could share the truth as we would both know it as it is said..

“Only heart to heart can speak the bliss of mystic knowers;
No messenger can tell it and no missive bear it. (Baha’u’llah)

So people insisting on proof of God or such are ignorant of the fact that this knowledge or proof or consciousness cannot be given to those who have not earned it. The individual must do independent search and according to the sincerity and intensity of his/her search they will be rewarded.

Once a person fulfils the required conditions for a true seeker only then will faith evolve into Certitude which is ‘knowing’. Then they will receive proof but not from another’s labor.

The station of absolute Certitude is above Faith. It is a new level consciousness. One just knows.

“such new life upon the seeker that he will find himself endowed with a new eye, a new ear, a new heart, and a new mind. Gazing with the eye of God, he will perceive within every atom a door that leadeth him to the stations of absolute certitude.”

will the darkness of error be dispelled, the mists of doubts and misgivings be dissipated, and the lights of knowledge and certitude envelop his being.”

Faith is but a door that leads to Certitude so Faith is a very important part of the evolution towards absolute absolute Certitude.

So people insisting on proof of God or such are ignorant of the fact that this knowledge or proof or consciousness cannot be given to those who have not earned it. The individual must do independent search and according to the sincerity and intensity of his/her search they will be rewarded.

Once a person fulfils the required conditions for a true seeker only then will faith evolve into Certitude which is ‘knowing’. Then they will receive proof but not from another’s labor.

The sad reality is that people are capable of deluding themselves into believing almost any ridiculous thing. I can guarantee that the idiots who flew plans into building back on 9/11 felt that they did a 'independent search and according to the sincerity and intensity of their search concluded that they had been rewarded with instructions from God to slaughter a bunch of innocent people.

The problem with faith is that it's completely personal and can't objectively be verified through others. Self-verification is absolutely worthless, since a person's personal biases can easily cause them to fabricate 'evidence' within their own mind for whatever 'answer' they deep down ultimately hope to 'find'. The 9/11 terrorists started off with a belief that God wanted them to kill people and low and behold after great internal searching they found enough 'evidence' to have such powerful certitude that they willingly sacrificed their lives to fulfill this belief.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So people insisting on proof of God or such are ignorant of the fact that this knowledge or proof or consciousness cannot be given to those who have not earned it. The individual must do independent search and according to the sincerity and intensity of his/her search they will be rewarded.

Once a person fulfils the required conditions for a true seeker only then will faith evolve into Certitude which is ‘knowing’. Then they will receive proof but not from another’s labor.

The sad reality is that people are capable of deluding themselves into believing almost any ridiculous thing. I can guarantee that the idiots who flew plans into building back on 9/11 felt that they did a 'independent search and according to the sincerity and intensity of their search concluded that they had been rewarded with instructions from God to slaughter a bunch of innocent people.

The problem with faith is that it's completely personal and can't objectively be verified through others. Self-verification is absolutely worthless, since a person's personal biases can easily cause them to fabricate 'evidence' within their own mind for whatever 'answer' they deep down ultimately hope to 'find'. The 9/11 terrorists started off with a belief that God wanted them to kill people and low and behold after great internal searching they found enough 'evidence' to have such powerful certitude that they willingly sacrificed their lives to fulfill this belief.

The Quran is very clear about aggression. It is categorically forbidden. Any independent investigation would have revealed that. The fact 1.7 billion Muslims don’t go around blowing up buildings means that those who did were not only not Muslims, but didn’t get their motivation from the Quran but from other sources which have nothing to do with the Word of God such as falsified Hadiths used by the Umayyad dynasty to circumvent the law of the Quran forbidding aggression and premeditated murder.

What they did had political motives as the Quran forbids terrorism.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The Quran is very clear about aggression. It is categorically forbidden. Any independent investigation would have revealed that. The fact 1.7 billion Muslims don’t go around blowing up buildings means that those who did were not only not Muslims, but didn’t get their motivation from the Quran but from other sources which have nothing to do with the Word of God such as falsified Hadiths used by the Umayyad dynasty to circumvent the law of the Quran forbidding aggression and premeditated murder.

What they did had political motives as the Quran forbids terrorism.

This has nothing to do with the Quran or being Muslim. Unfortunately the fact that you and possibly 1.7 billion other Muslims may believe that these terrorists are not following the Word of God is completely irrelevant. The reality remains that these men did an 'independent search and according to the sincerity and intensity of their search concluded with unwavering faith that God wanted them to commit this horrific act.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This has nothing to do with the Quran or being Muslim. Unfortunately the fact that you and possibly 1.7 billion other Muslims may believe that these terrorists are not following the Word of God is completely irrelevant. The reality remains that these men did an 'independent search and according to the sincerity and intensity of their search concluded with unwavering faith that God wanted them to commit this horrific act.

How do you know they did an independent search. What proof have you? All they read is the terrorist manual.

Their terrorist manuals which have been carefully examined by experts shows that no independent investigation is done whatsoever and the participants follow only the manual. Furthermore they showed that the Quran rebutted the entire basis of the manual..

Each point he makes is theologically rebutted by Quilliam using the Qur’an, Islamic teachings and reference to acts prohibited by Islamic warfare ethics and Islamic morality. “This text offers intricate details on the use of jihad in its traditional Sunni discussion, and misuses these features to provide Islamic legal cover to terrorist operations,” said Ansari.

A vulnerable reader who has no previous training in Islamic jurisprudence might easily become seduced by this book

Sheikh Salah al-Ansari

The core Isis manual that twisted Islam to legitimise barbarity

 

[Ajarn]

One must ask the source, in the Bible Mattew 7:7 is a good start;

"7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh. findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

The key here is that God answers in His way as to what is best for us, not always as we would expect and want.

Regads Tony

I asked what God said, and you refered me to the Book of Matthew.

I want to Know What God says, not what Matthew claims he says.

 

[Ajarn]

You have faith that the buddha wasn't lying
You have faith that the buddha was correct
You have faith that your methodology is correct
You have faith that the buddha knew enough to present something properly

The entire religion is faith.

No, completely false.

Buddha said follow only his teaching that make sense to you.

Its an individual personal journey, he is a teacher, if i discover the teachings were not his it is of
no consequence.

As a Buddhist i accept as a person without faith, he may not have even existed.

The message is what matters, does God exist, maybe, life after death, perhaps, rebirth, perhaps i will see when the time comes.

Whatever is there to do right by yourself and others should be sufficiant to please an intelligent God.

 

[Ajarn]

Faith (Saddha) is one of the Five Spiritual Faculties in Buddhism:

Indriya - Wikipedia

Faith in Buddhism is commitment to Practice, devotion to study.

Very different.

 

[Ajarn]

You can obfuscate or call it whatever you want. However don't obfuscate what I wrote, which was, chanting to a statue is a form of 'faith'.

If it isn't, then the word is wrong, which could be also. The word would be wrong however in the argument or discussion itself, not just for chanting to a statue.

When you look at a photo of a loved one which one do you love, are you admiring the person or the photo paper.

 

[crossfire]

Faith in Buddhism is commitment to Practice, devotion to study.

Very different.

True. You have to have faith that your practice will yield results, otherwise why practice?