Family and Friends

[The Giz]

I've been non-religious for several years and atheist for about two years. Well last year I just "came out" and told my mother, who is protestant, about myself. Well it was never discussed again after that until the other day we got into an argument and suffice to say that basically "You're going to Hell and I pray for you everyday" was said. I was just wondering if any other atheists had problems with friends and family because of their choice? And how did you feel and deal with it?

 

[Original Freak]

"You're going to hell!"
"Enjoy heaven knowing I'm being tortured for eternity for doing nothing more than not believing."

Placing the seeds of doubt.

My parents accepted it, but we dont' talk about it. Although they aren't hardcore in their beliefs either though.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Neither one of you are going to hell unless you choose to. Your parents are reacting out of dissappointment. And they are reacting the way they were conditioned to react. There is nothing wrong with the path you have chosen. I found more truth as an atheist than I ever could have by being tied down to any one religion. But the truth brought me back to a higher power.

There is nothing wrong with seeking answers for yourself, in fact it is preferable to just blindly believing what people tell you to believe. Whether you believe it or not, you are surrounded by spirits who will help you along whatever journey you choose for yourself. You do not have to believe in whatever God has been defined for you so far.

All I ask is that no matter what, you believe in LOVE. Seek the truth, and help others whenever you can.

 

[Original Freak]

Neither one of you are going to hell unless you choose to. Your parents are reacting out of dissappointment. And they are reacting the way they were conditioned to react. There is nothing wrong with the path you have chosen. I found more truth as an atheist than I ever could have by being tied down to any one religion. But the truth brought me back to a higher power.

I wish everyone was as accepting as you and more believed what you do. Fact is as an atheist we are told often we are going to burn in hell. Many people believe we are evil, and horrible people as soon as they hear that word. I've been on chats and message boards where people were completely suprised we were atheists because we were so 'normal' and others where a few would even believe or accept we were athiest because we nice, moral and civil people.

 

[robtex]

Giz I was UU/deist leaning before becoming an atheist and UU if you didn't know UU supports its members irregardless of shifts...shifts in belief are not seen as loss of faith in UU. But with my christian friends I mapped out a plan and stuck to it. I went to people I was less close to first and people who were less zealous in their propogation of christianty and than learned as I went.

My mother is an agnostic and we really don't stay in contact but my father became a jehovah's witness recently after being a life-long methodists. As a methodist I think he would have been accepting of my current interpretation of reality but as a jwitness he definetly will not. Actually his religious shift has completly changed his cirlce of friends and I have, by observing his interaction with others realized it would be a poor judgement call to inform him.

My younger brother has been an atheist since he was a freshmen in college (he is now34) and has never told my father for the same reason.

I have moved slowly and methodically from person to person starting with those who were distant on the theory that I would rather make a mistake informing them and learn from it before making the same mistake on sombody i was closer to. What i have learned is this:

With the exception of baptists, jehovahs witness most christians are amicable to the idea of my atheism if I can support it with a couple reasons for my choice. I have gotten more curosity than any other reaction.

I have been more successful if i phrase it as "my nonbelief" and make the focus "my atheism" instead of "their religion" . What I mean is I have gotten a more positive reaction in talking about my atheism as opposed to my theories on their religion. It also shows that I have thought it through and as most of them have not they give me kudos for thinking it through at least.

On the one occasion that some lameoid gave me "going to hell" speech I didn't fire back at them. I realized it was their angered reaction to the rejection of their fatih as opposed to their concern about my well being and I let it go. I realize that it is an arguement I really can't win since my goal is to inform them of my lack of belief in a higher power.

I stopped taking potshots at christianty in general. I kicked Christianty to the curb at the age of 19 after being one for about a year because it conflicted with my pacifism. In my late 20's and really early 30's when I first became a UU I was sorta mean to christians, mostly those i worked with and i came to understand that their adverse reaction was in defense of their belief system as opposed to opposition of mine. When i became an atheist i applied that knowledge and position my atheism as my "lack of belief in a higher power" as opposed to my discrediting of their belief system. I did this by saying I have a lack of belief in a higher power as opposed to things like, "chrisitianty doesn't work for me, " or "I don't accept jesus as my savior" ect ect.

I made sure they knew they could ask me questions if they wanted to ---most didn't.

I avoided telling anyone who felt that "the bible is the inerrant word of god".

I also joined secular organizations including the atheist community of austin and some online ones. The support you get from your local atheist community will be beneficial and if you figure out the answer to your own question one day there will be another non-theist, atheist, agnostic, freethinker securlalist who will need your wisdom one day.

 

[hartlandcat]

I must admit, it always amazes me when I hear of atheists having to 'come out' in America, and being afraid to do this due to fear of persecution, and that they are constantly told that they are going to hell. I live in England, and almost everyone I know is non-religious. I've never heard anyone in real life say that any person was going to hell for not believing this or that. It's amazing how different Europe is compared to America.

Anyway, I have to commend those American atheists who are able to speak about their beliefs (or rather the lack thereof) in what seems to be such an oppressive society. Don't forget that you could always move here!

 

[robtex]

Anyway, I have to commend those American atheists who are able to speak about their beliefs (or rather the lack thereof) in what seems to be such an oppressive society. Don't forget that you could always move here!

Moving to your side of the ocean would be feasible except if one lacks faith in a higher power I would suspect that they would reject the notion that this unevidencable higher power would be kind enough to lessen the rain and lessen the cold in order for the migrating atheists to move further away from god without sacrficing those god-given hot summers and coupled with rainless months.

woo hoo another UU!!! :woohoo:

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The way I end "Your going to Hell" discussion is, I tell the person, that IF Im wrong and thier right, when I get to Hell, Ihh think ***! Then Ill find Satan and de-thrown him. I WILL TAKE OVER HELL!!!

 

[Draka]

Having certainly never heard that I'm going to hell from my own family I can't really comment on that. From friends either for that matter...even co-workers and strangers haven't said that.

However while I was in high school I had a boyfriend that told me that. At the time I had my own beliefs and just didn't realize they fit into any religion I knew of and so to make things easier I just defined myself as atheist because it was too hard to describe what I believed and I knew I didn't believe in Christianity. Anyway, he got into this whole inter-racial relationship bashing thing and started flinging the "N" word when talking about blacks and that ticked me off...then he went off on gays. I started to chew him out for it and he started backing everything with the Bible...so I told him he couldn't prove anything to me with that because I didn't believe in it and it was just a book to me. He flipped out. Told me that I was going to burn in hell for all eternity with all the gays down there! I told him hell didn't exist to me and if it did then I wasn't the one that needed to worry about going there with the way he was acting. I walked out on him at that point and left it at that.

I suppose that would be much harder to do when it comes to our own family, but as my family is really accepting of EVERYONE I can't imagine what it is like.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Anyway, I have to commend those American atheists who are able to speak about their beliefs (or rather the lack thereof) in what seems to be such an oppressive society. Don't forget that you could always move here!

Thanks for the invitation. Honestly though, I really don't feel "oppressed" for being an atheist. It's not an issue with my friends at all.

Now, I've never been told I'm going to hell, but I will admit that I prefer that the people I meet not know that I'm an atheist. It can be uncomfortable though when someone asks me what denomination I am....there's just something about the words "I'm not Christian" that I still haven't quite grown accustomed to.

 

[Natas]

As a child, I was told in no uncertain terms that I had to go to church. Period. Baptized at an early age, I had no idea of it's symbolism. Most of the time in church, the pastors that delivered the sermons were shouting and pounding the pulpit. (To keep us awake, I think)

In Sunday school, I went through the same brainwashing as everyone else, but for some reason, I still retained ideas that were independent of church doctrine. I told myself that there had to be something besides the black & white judgements of the church. I realized that after endless lectures about how everything bad that happened to people was Satan's doing, and anything good was a miracle from God.
No wiggle room, no exceptions. Either you take it on faith that there's a supreme being that watches over us and guides us, and died for our sins, or you're one of the unfortunates who will burn in hell for eternity.

In my Baptist family, there was no coming out as an Atheist. If that word was even mentioned, shocked horror was the reaction. But once I had moved away from home, I was free to believe or in my case, disbelieve what I wanted.

To this day I don't initiate a conversation about religion with any family members unless they bring it up. The one time that happened, my sister sensed something in my attitude and asked me if I believed that, "Jesus Christ was my lord and savior". To which I replied, "No." She then told me that she felt she had went wrong somewhere and it was her fault that I was an Atheist.

One truth I have learned is that some religions would not continue as a viable force in the world without the use of guilt.

 

[hartlandcat]

It can be uncomfortable though when someone asks me what denomination I am....there's just something about the words "I'm not Christian" that I still haven't quite grown accustomed to.

The thing is, one would never get asked that question in England, unless they'd already made a point of saying that they were a Christian (and even then, they probably still wouldn't be asked). I'm always under the impression that almost everyone here is non-religious, but it might be more that we put such a strong emphasis on never talking about religion that it's just often assumed. If I mention anything about religion, people will usually try and change the subject as quickly as possible -- it's clear that most people here simply don't want to talk about it. Heck, I don't even know the religious beliefs (if any) of most of my family or friends, since I feel that it would be so inappropriate to ask.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Thanks for the invitation. Honestly though, I really don't feel "oppressed" for being an atheist. It's not an issue with my friends at all.

Now, I've never been told I'm going to hell, but I will admit that I prefer that the people I meet not know that I'm an atheist. It can be uncomfortable though when someone asks me what denomination I am....there's just something about the words "I'm not Christian" that I still haven't quite grown accustomed to.

Most people react to the word athiest, according to how they were brought up. If someone grew up in an envirionment of people who judged others for being atheist, they will most likely be the same way.

My grandfather was a strict southern Babtist, and if my mother had blindly followed his lead, I would probably say that you would go to hell, because that's what my grandfather believes. But my mother had a problem with authority. And she sought out her own truth. She ended up becoming Catholic, and I have an aunt that became a Mormon.

I see atheists as brave spiritual children trying to be independant. There is nothing wrong with seeking independence, it can make you a stronger person.

 

[michel]

He he; this is quite 'a propos' for me; Andrew, my older son says he is an Atheist ( I am not convinced - I think he is probably more of an agnostic) - and he seems to have formed a lasting)( relationship with a girl whose Father he gets on with very well indeed.


Whenever we (My wife and I) talk about meeting his girlfriend's parents, both Andrew and his girl friends look 'uncomfortable' - It seems like her Dad is a ardent Atheiest.

I have told them both it means absolutely nothing to me - makes no difference whatsoever, but I can see the doubt in their eyes. I hope to prove them wrong soon.

 

[robtex]

I have told them both it means absolutely nothing to me - makes no difference whatsoever, but I can see the doubt in their eyes. I hope to prove them wrong soon.

See that is the issue with the monotheistic tradions of Christianty and Islam. For the most part the other religions have no issue with non conformity of belief. If you were hindu, UU, or a taoist I bet you would be less inclined to feel a need to help them find the truth of your elected faith. But the structure of Christianty as it stands (and the muslim tradition) states that eternal torture and damnation are the negative reward for disbelief. I am guessing in the back of your mind and that on most other christians pressures you to wonder and try to convert those you love from time to time.

 

[robtex]

One truth I have learned is that some religions would not continue as a viable force in the world without the use of guilt.

Liked your story. Since your name is Satan spelled backwards are a Lavey Satanists?

In reference to the qoute isolated. I would say the opposite is true. The two most successful religions today, Islam and Christianty both make heavy use of the guilt to accomplish obedience and acceptance. The third most popular religion hinduism has mostly been confined to one small area for most of its followers and the rest are very small in comparision.

 

[Natas]

Liked your story. Since your name is Satan spelled backwards are a Lavey Satanists?

Thanks. The name is just for my own amusement. I enjoy hearing the reactions to it. I know very little about Satanism and I really don't feel compelled at the present to study it. I won't say that I would never study it, because knowledge can be found in some strange places.

In reference to the qoute isolated. I would say the opposite is true. The two most successful religions today, Islam and Christianty both make heavy use of the guilt to accomplish obedience and acceptance. The third most popular religion hinduism has mostly been confined to one small area for most of its followers and the rest are very small in comparision.

Sounds like you and I are in complete agreement on this point.

 

[michel]

Most people react to the word athiest, according to how they were brought up. If someone grew up in an envirionment of people who judged others for being atheist, they will most likely be the same way.

My grandfather was a strict southern Babtist, and if my mother had blindly followed his lead, I would probably say that you would go to hell, because that's what my grandfather believes. But my mother had a problem with authority. And she sought out her own truth. She ended up becoming Catholic, and I have an aunt that became a Mormon.

I see atheists as brave spiritual children trying to be independant. There is nothing wrong with seeking independence, it can make you a stronger person.

I am so sorry I missed your post last time around, EH - it is certainly an example to us all - That is a beautiful perspective.

Robtex, I understand what you are saying, and I suppose, if I am honest, there is a hope somewhere in me that my kids will one day decide to Love God - but there is no pressure on me, as I see it.

The only 'duty' I believe I have is to lead as 'pure' a life as I can manage, and hopefully, if people ask for my help, I can try to show them what I have discovered - but they have to come to me.

 

[hartlandcat]

So Michel, do you still consider yourself to be a Unitarian(-Universalist) even though you've changed your religion on your profile to Christian, or what?

 

[anders]

The thing is, one would never get asked that question in England, unless they'd already made a point of saying that they were a Christian (and even then, they probably still wouldn't be asked). I'm always under the impression that almost everyone here is non-religious, but it might be more that we put such a strong emphasis on never talking about religion that it's just often assumed. If I mention anything about religion, people will usually try and change the subject as quickly as possible -- it's clear that most people here simply don't want to talk about it. Heck, I don't even know the religious beliefs (if any) of most of my family or friends, since I feel that it would be so inappropriate to ask.

Mostly true for Sweden as well. A sister of mine has left the Church of Sweden. I don't even know it that's mainly some spiritual concern of hers or if she just wants to save a couple of USD 100's on Church tax. I sometimes try to trick mother (88) to reveal her standpoint by, for example, saying that "today is Friday, so now I'm a Buddhist", and she should know that I'm an atheist. She won't fall for it, and so I don't know what, if anything, she believes in. Two of my neighbours are Catholic. Very exotic. I know, because they are active in supporting some kind of charity with outlets in India, and they like to talk about it. And a not too distant relative of one of them just got beatified (it was even in the papers). Outside of those two and of a few clergy persons, I know the faith of only two friends. We were in the same high school Christian community, and they still subscribe to that way AFAIK. Oh, and my university teacher of Bible Hebrew has told us that she's a Jew.