Fascism - Why...

[Estro Felino]

"You Europeans" are doing the exact same things that we are. You're just more willing to sell out Ukraine for your own convenience.

No...it's simpler than that.
We cannot afford a war at the doors of the European Union. Because it's us who will have to support war refugees and help Ukraine economically.

And war is forbidden in most EU member states' constitutions.

Yes, to sell out Ukraine for your own convenience.

I could also say Americans want Putin's downfall at any cost.
My question is: even by sacrificing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian lives?
Those lives are the just price for the tsar's head?

 

[PureX]

No...it's simpler than that.
We cannot afford a war at the doors of the European Union. Because it's us who will have to support war refugees and help Ukraine economically.

And war is forbidden in most EU member states' constitutions.

I could also say Americans want Putin's downfall at any cost.
My question is: even by sacrificing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian lives?
Those lives are the just price for the tsar's head?

Americans couldn't care less about Putin. He's the Russian's problem until he decided to become an imperialist conqueror. Then he became the world's problem, including yours. The difference is that all you cared about was how it would effect you. Whereas most of the rest of the world cared about how imperial conquest effects us all, including the Ukrainians.

 

[exchemist]

I wouldn’t say the economy has tanked, but it is not as robust as it was under Trump. Biden has undone many of the things Trump did, so gas prices are much higher (gas prices help the poor more than just about anything else) and jobs are not as plentiful as they were before; likely due to increased regulations and higher taxes on big business

You know I had a feeling you would cite gasoline prices. That seems to be an enduring obsession of the US public. Fuel prices are set by external factors (e.g. Putin's invasion of Ukraine) so it's fairly stupid to expect a US president to wave a magic wand and bring them down. But I agree with you that does not seem to have got through to the American public.

On employment, I see some contributors have provided graphs that suggest things have actually got better since Trump left office. Certainly that's the impression I have from the FT and other serious papers over here.

So is what you are telling me a popular misperception of the state of the economy, that is nevertheless driving voter sentiment?

 

[Estro Felino]

Americans couldn't care less about Putin. He's the Russian's problem until he decided to become an imperialist conqueror.

Ah...right...you guys are worried about us Europeans, if Russia invades us.
Since we Europeans are not handicapped, we can handle the issue alone.
If we need help, we'll ask for it.

Then he became the world's problem, including yours. The difference is that all you cared about was how it would effect you. Whereas most of the rest of the world cared about how imperial conquest effects us all, including the Ukrainians.

Putin is fine with the four regions conquered. He won't advance.

 

[exchemist]

Americans couldn't care less about Putin. He's the Russian's problem until he decided to become an imperialist conqueror. Then he became the world's problem, including yours. The difference is that all you cared about was how it would effect you. Whereas most of the rest of the world cared about how imperial conquest effects us all, including the Ukrainians.

Indeed. Countries with particular reasons to fear a Russian conquest of Ukraine include Poland, the Baltic States and Romania - all members of the EU. And that is quite apart from the damage to the world of allowing such a monstrous injustice to take place unchallenged. It would encourage bellicose dictators everywhere, very likely starting with China, over the South China Sea and Taiwan.

 

[Secret Chief]

Since we Europeans are not handicapped, we can handle the issue alone.
If we need help, we'll ask for it.

Why do you persist with this fantasy that you are a spokesperson for Europe? You are not. You are only a spokesperson for yourself.

 

[Kfox]

Poorly asked question. Try again.

I'll take that as a NO. That's why I say the President should not get credit for the increase in employment after the pandemic; which was basically people returning to their previously held jobs

 

[Sand Dancer]

Generally people accept fascism when they feel their world is devolving into chaos. Lawlessness, crime, etc.
They look to national unity and strong leadership to "save" the nation from going down the drain.

The more chaotic they see their world, the more they will be drawn to strong leadership.
imo

They seem to find moral chaos everywhere.

 

[Kfox]

You know I had a feeling you would cite gasoline prices. That seems to be an enduring obsession of the US public.

Yeah; as said before, fuel prices have more of an effect on the poor than just about anything else. When you lower fuel prices, that helps the poor more than any government program and doesn’t cost a trillion dollars

Fuel prices are set by external factors (e.g. Putin's invasion of Ukraine) so it's fairly stupid to expect a US president to wave a magic wand and bring them down. But I agree with you that does not seem to have got through to the American public.

Part of the problem is what Biden said when he was running for President, he openly stated that Big Oil will have no place in the Biden administration (promoting his green energy ideas) Then shortly after getting elected, fuel prices went through the roof. Now even though he did stop some of the increased drilling allowed by the trump administration, the significant increase (IMO) wasn’t his fault. But because of what he said, the perception among many was that he caused this to happen

On employment, I see some contributors have provided graphs that suggest things have actually got better since Trump left office. Certainly that's the impression I have from the FT and other serious papers over here.

So is what you are telling me a popular misperception of the state of the economy, that is nevertheless driving voter sentiment?

As I stated on post #165, the unemployment rate is basically the same today as it was prior to the pandemic (3.67 vs 3.61) but the media seemed to be focused more on the economy under Trump than today; probably because it was the first time in a long time unemployment was that low. Now I guess everybody is used to it being that low.

 

[PureX]

Ah...right...you guys are worried about us Europeans, if Russia invades us.
Since we Europeans are not handicapped, we can handle the issue alone.
If we need help, we'll ask for it.


Putin is fine with the four regions conquered. He won't advance.

That's what they said about Hitler, and about imperial Japan, and about Bonaparte, and every other Conqueror in history. Even the conquerors themselves say they will stop after "this one". But they never do.

 

[Estro Felino]

That's what they said about Hitler, and about imperial Japan, and about Bonaparte, and every other Conqueror in history. Even the conquerors themselves say they will stop after "this one". But they never do.

Speaking of fascist leaders, Trump would have done anything to bring peace to Europe, by convincing Zelenskyy and Putin to find a compromise.
The compromise will be found, but Trump would have facilitated it immediately. Not after almost two years of war.

I have news for you: what prevented a WW3 from breaking out?
Us Europeans: the EU made themselves very clear that they would have never supported a WW3 on the European continent. And since Americans would have never wanted to appear as the only warmongers, by going to war alone, they desisted.

The worst mistake was to destroy the two gas pipelines. Big mistake.

So...even if Trump isn't elected...it's all useless for the elitist cabal of warmongers that spends millions to foment this war.
Europeans will do anything to prevent a war from breaking out.

And it turns out this war will be over soon. Putin will keep those four regions and Ukraine will soon join the EU.

 

[PureX]

Speaking of fascist leaders, Trump would have done anything to bring peace to Europe, by convincing Zelenskyy and Putin to find a compromise.
The compromise will be found, but Trump would have facilitated it immediately. Not after almost two years of war.

Trump wouldn't have done a thing, because there was nothing in it for him. Putin could have bribed him, though. That would have bought his support for capitulation.

I have news for you: what prevented a WW3 from breaking out?
Us Europeans: the EU made themselves very clear that they would have never supported a WW3 on the European continent. And since Americans would have never wanted to appear as the only warmongers, by going to war alone, they desisted.

The worst mistake was to destroy the two gas pipelines. Big mistake.

So...even if Trump isn't elected...it's all useless for the elitist cabal of warmongers that spends millions to foment this war.
Europeans will do anything to prevent a war from breaking out.

And it turns out this war will be over soon. Putin will keep those four regions and Ukraine will soon join the EU.

The annihilation of all mankind is what is stopping WW3 ... so far.

 

[Estro Felino]

Trump wouldn't have done a thing, because there was nothing in it for him.

Speaking of bribery...are we sure there are no Americans bribing either belligerent party...so the war continues indefinitely?

 

[metis]

... do so many Americans desperately want it?

Frankly, as anthropologist Demond Morris said decades ago, we are a "Naked Ape" with chimps being our closest relatives, and both they and us tend to gravitate towards "strongmen".

 

[PureX]

Speaking of bribery...are we sure there are no Americans bribing either belligerent party...so the war continues indefinitely?

The US runs on bribery. But the oligarchs don't need to prolong any particular war, they can always just start another one. But it's Putin that started and is prolonging this one. It could end tomorrow. All he has to do is call his army home. He doesn't even have to admit defeat. Just say he changed his mind. And decided it's not worth the cost.

 

[Secret Chief]

Frankly, as anthropologist Demond Morris said decades ago, we are a "Naked Ape" with chimps being our closest relatives, and both they and us tend to gravitate towards "strongmen".

It's certainly a sophisticated society! There's obviously battles for dominance (to be the alpha), but does that mean we "gravitate" ?

- From Top to Bottom, Chimpanzee Social Hierachy is Amazing!

 

[Estro Felino]

It could end tomorrow.

Stop funding Zelenskyy and you will see how the war ends today.

But you forget something: you Americans don't want the war to end today, so you will keep funding him.

 

[PureX]

Frankly, as anthropologist Demond Morris said decades ago, we are a "Naked Ape" with chimps being our closest relatives, and both they and us tend to gravitate towards "strongmen".

I don't think we gravitate toward them. We don't even like them. But we won't trouble ourselves with stopping them, and that's a very big problem for us. Because they have to be stopped sooner or later, or they'll destroy everything and everyone within their influence. They will not stop themselves. And they will not be satisfied with half measures. History has shown us this over and over and over again.

We need to learn to identify these "pathological alphas" among (and within) us and reign them in immediately. We have to stop letting them gain the positions of power that they tirelessly seek because they will surely abuse it. They ALWAYS do. It's why they want the power in the first place.

We have to learn to stop being complacent until circumstances become disastrous. We need to learn to be proactive.

Rule #1: The more someone wants to be our "leader", the more important it is that we never allow them to attain that position.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'll take that as a NO. That's why I say the President should not get credit for the increase in employment after the pandemic; which was basically people returning to their previously held jobs

Wrong. It was not a no. Your question was dishonest in form. I gave you a chance to ask it properly instead of shouting "Liar!". That would have done neither of us any good. Now can you ask it properly? No false assumptions can be used. No changing of the subject can be used. If you were interested in honest discourse you would not have used a less than honest approach. That is almost the same as you admitting that you were wrong.

 

[metis]

It's certainly a sophisticated society! There's obviously battles for dominance (to be the alpha), but does that mean we "gravitate" ?

- From Top to Bottom, Chimpanzee Social Hierachy is Amazing!

As a generality, yes. One thing a candidate tries to avoid is to look "weak", which one reason why intellectuals generally don't do well as they usually try to carefully qualify their words. But take someone like Trump, who plays Mr. Toughy quite effectively, and he comes off as basically being an alpha male.