Fascism - Why...

[Kfox]

As you might have seen earlier in this thread, please provide evidence for this "improved economy" over the 4 years of Trump's term. That would be from January 20, 2017, through January 19, 2021. Please be sure to include economic indicators like GDP, interest rates, unemployment rates and job creation rates, deficits, wages/hourly rates of pay, tax rates (compare the rich to the middle class), etc.

Either that, or admit that you "think" it was improved, but haven't the vaguest clue how to demonstrate that, outside of your worship for Trump that makes you believe him, no matter how much he lies.

I remember shortly after getting elected to office, Trump had a meeting with many of the CEO’s basically telling them to share the wealth when he gives them their tax cuts

Despite deep internal divisions, CEOs met with Trump on jobs

Trump met with the heads of some of America's largest companies and "engaged forcefully" on a variety of topics.

www.nbcnews.com

This lead to many companies like Walmart, Target and many others raising their minimum wages and giving bonuses to the employees.

Walmart uses massive Trump tax gain to offer modest pay rise to workers

World’s largest retailer raises wages – but $11-an-hour rate remains far below the $15 unions say is needed

www.theguardian.com

This resulted in an unemployment rate below 4%; the lowest in many years.

U.S. Unemployment Rate -2024

Unemployment refers to the share of the labor force that is without work but available for and seeking employment.

www.macrotrends.net

and black unemployment rates below 7%; the lowest on record.

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/08/576552028/fact-check-trump-touts-low-unemployment-rates-for-african-americans-hispanics

If I recall correctly, 12% of black men voted for Trump for his 2nd term; (black women; another story) even though it wasn’t enough for him to get reelected

Trump did make small gains with Black voters. Here’s why.

With disinformation and economic promises, Trump lobbied hard for the Black vote in the final days of the campaign.

www.vox.com

And of course gas prices were lower than in many years, in 2018 the US became the #1 oil producer in the world (from #3) surpassing Russia and Saudi Arabia.

Fact check: US was world’s top oil producer in 2018, followed by Russia, Saudi Arabia

The U.S. as a whole – not Texas alone, as a social media post claims – was the world’s top oil producer in 2018, outproducing Russia and Saudi Arabia.

www.usatoday.com

This resulted in lower fuel prices which helps the poor more than anything else because they can’t afford expensive electric cars, or the newer cars that get better milage. Poor people usually have older gas guzzling cars.

I think that is what many of his supporters liked about him; it seemed the economy was just doing better than it had in a long time. That doesn’t make them Fascists though.

 

[Subduction Zone]

When Biden got into office we were coming out of the Pandemic when we purposely shut down the economy in an effort to stop Covid. To give him credit for record employment and GDP growth after opening up the economy back up is akin to firing 5 million people, then giving them their jobs back and call it creating 5 million new jobs

If you look at the numbers we have more jobs than we did precovid. And new jobs keep being made. So no. Facts and statistics show you to be wrong again. Here is a chart from January of this year and we have only had more growth since then. At that time we were above the numbers before the pandemic:

Yes, there were changes in what people did, but some of the changes should make you happy. The number of government employees is down 438,000. And the other big loss is in the leisure and hospitality areas. Those areas tended to consume production instead of making it. They will recover too eventually. But the important jobs to the US recovered and then some.

How US employment today compares to pre-pandemic times | World Economic Forum

 

[Kfox]

I wonder what era of American history MAGA folks consider 'Great?'

Everybody has their own ideas of when things were better. Some the 50's, some the 70's, or even the early 2000's; different people will have different responses; that's what political slogans are all about, it allows you to fill in the blanks with your own ideas. When Obama said "hope and change" everybody had a different idea of what constitutes hope, and what type of change he was gonna enact.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I remember shortly after getting elected to office, Trump had a meeting with many of the CEO’s basically telling them to share the wealth when he gives them their tax cuts

Despite deep internal divisions, CEOs met with Trump on jobs

Trump met with the heads of some of America's largest companies and "engaged forcefully" on a variety of topics.

www.nbcnews.com

This lead to many companies like Walmart, Target and many others raising their minimum wages and giving bonuses to the employees.

Walmart uses massive Trump tax gain to offer modest pay rise to workers

World’s largest retailer raises wages – but $11-an-hour rate remains far below the $15 unions say is needed

www.theguardian.com

This resulted in an unemployment rate below 4%; the lowest in many years.

U.S. Unemployment Rate -2024

Unemployment refers to the share of the labor force that is without work but available for and seeking employment.

www.macrotrends.net

and black unemployment rates below 7%; the lowest on record.

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/08/576552028/fact-check-trump-touts-low-unemployment-rates-for-african-americans-hispanics

If I recall correctly, 12% of black men voted for Trump for his 2nd term; (black women; another story) even though it wasn’t enough for him to get reelected

Trump did make small gains with Black voters. Here’s why.

With disinformation and economic promises, Trump lobbied hard for the Black vote in the final days of the campaign.

www.vox.com

And of course gas prices were lower than in many years, in 2018 the US became the #1 oil producer in the world (from #3) surpassing Russia and Saudi Arabia.

Fact check: US was world’s top oil producer in 2018, followed by Russia, Saudi Arabia

The U.S. as a whole – not Texas alone, as a social media post claims – was the world’s top oil producer in 2018, outproducing Russia and Saudi Arabia.

www.usatoday.com

This resulted in lower fuel prices which helps the poor more than anything else because they can’t afford expensive electric cars, or the newer cars that get better milage. Poor people usually have older gas guzzling cars.

I think that is what many of his supporters liked about him; it seemed the economy was just doing better than it had in a long time. That doesn’t make them Fascists though.

And they knew that he was just BSing them since he clearly had no intentions to do that himself.

 

[Kfox]

If you look at the numbers we have more jobs than we did precovid. And new jobs keep being made. So no. Facts and statistics show you to be wrong again. Here is a chart from January of this year and we have only had more growth since then. At that time we were above the numbers before the pandemic:

View attachment 82073

Yes, there were changes in what people did, but some of the changes should make you happy. The number of government employees is down 438,000. And the other big loss is in the leisure and hospitality areas. Those areas tended to consume production instead of making it. They will recover too eventually. But the important jobs to the US recovered and then some.

How US employment today compares to pre-pandemic times | World Economic Forum

Unemployment is about as low today as it was pre pandemic.

U.S. Unemployment Rate -2024

Unemployment refers to the share of the labor force that is without work but available for and seeking employment.

www.macrotrends.net

My point was he can't be given credit for the jobs gained that were previously lost.

 

[Kfox]

If they support Project 2025, they are on the spectrum of Fascism, IMO.

What is project 2025

 

[Soandso]

Unemployment is about as low today as it was pre pandemic.

U.S. Unemployment Rate -2024

Unemployment refers to the share of the labor force that is without work but available for and seeking employment.

www.macrotrends.net

My point was he can't be given credit for the jobs gained that were previously lost.

In the wake of an unprecedented event in history? I mean, ok

 

[F1fan]

Tell me about this Obama anger. Is it just unresolved racism?

I remember when Obama was elected, the nasty conservative pundits were pretty respectful for quite a dew months. I think they were worried about how far they could criticize his race, or even him, and not get lashback from citizens. I remember the waterfall of criticism and racism came after a few racist comments were not attacked by conservative voters, and actually approved of. I was shocked when vulgar things were said about Michelle Obama, and I don't know how they kept their cool. I think helped open the door to the Trump level of racism and insults that is commonplace today.

 

[Wandering Monk]

What is project 2025

Project 2025 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Subduction Zone]

Unemployment is about as low today as it was pre pandemic.

U.S. Unemployment Rate -2024

Unemployment refers to the share of the labor force that is without work but available for and seeking employment.

www.macrotrends.net

My point was he can't be given credit for the jobs gained that were previously lost.

He does deserve at least some of the credit. Why do you think that he should not get credit for them coming back?

 

[Stevicus]

Hmm. I suspect the real cure is something to bring the country together. There's a lot of alienation - in the UK too. I'm afraid I think that's what you get by promoting the idea of individualism as strongly as we have done for the last 30 years.

What was striking to me in the covid pandemic was this fund of goodwill and yearning to pull together. It was as if we needed an excuse to say just hello to one another and help. But modern politics does not encourage that - and both our countries had at the time leaders that blew it completely.

Yes, there was much left to be desired in terms of how the government responded to the pandemic. Trump's questionable leadership during that, as well as the concurrent George Floyd murder and the ensuing riots, pretty much sunk his presidency. Apart from everything else one can say about Trump, when it comes to actual administrating and running his office, he's like Captain Peachfuzz.

 

[Kfox]

He does deserve at least some of the credit. Why do you think that he should not get credit for them coming back?

After the pandemic was over, why should the president get credit for people getting their jobs back?

 

[Kfox]

He does deserve at least some of the credit. Why do you think that he should not get credit for them coming back?

After the pandemic was over, why should the president get credit for people getting their jobs back?

 

[Subduction Zone]

After the pandemic was over, why should the president get credit for people getting their jobs back?

He did introduce new programs designed to do that.

Biden-Harris Administration Roadmap to Support Good Jobs | The White House

The Biden-Harris Investing in America Agenda is sparking a manufacturing, construction, and clean energy renaissance across the country. To help ensure

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[Kfox]

He did introduce new programs designed to do that.

Biden-Harris Administration Roadmap to Support Good Jobs | The White House

The Biden-Harris Investing in America Agenda is sparking a manufacturing, construction, and clean energy renaissance across the country. To help ensure

www.whitehouse.gov

During the Pandemic, unemployment rate reached 15%. Do you really think it would still be at 15% had Biden not introduced these programs?

 

[Subduction Zone]

During the Pandemic, unemployment rate reached 15%. Do you really think it would still be at 15% had Biden not introduced these programs?

Poorly asked question. Try again.

 

[Secret Chief]

Hmm, those are pretty mild definitions in the scheme of things really.

Some of mine are:

Narcissistic turnip, *redacted*, fake bronzed buffoon, *redacted*, *redacted* *very much so redacted*.

Hope that helped!

I've discovered that it's possible to break every forum rule using just eleven letters. It's like playing a foul-mouthed version of Spelling Bee.

 

[Secret Chief]

I wasn't sure whether to use the winner, the sad or the funny frube...

 

[Friend of Mara]

The obsession people have with something as vague as "the economy" baffles me. I don't understand why a blue collar worker making 15 an hour at fedex makes that a cornerstone of his political decision making when it is one of the things that affect them directly the least. The economy does "great" all the time and the regular working folk are doing terrible. The economy by and large over the last few decades has done incredibly well. Out paced everything we predicted in the 90's by far. But the wealth enjoyed by the average person is significantly smaller than what we enjoyed in the 90's.

And yet many people care about "the economy" that runs well because it is intentionally shafting workers.

So genuine question. For Trumpers who support him because he made "the economy better". Why does that affect your life? Are you actually in the fractionally small group of people that it matters for and voting in your best interests? Or do you hear "economy"="money" and think it will trickle down to you? Its an over simplification of the situation for sure but the point still stands.

Also isn't it just kind of funny that nearly every single Republican president leaves the economies worse than when they inherited them? Almost every single time while democrats almost always end with a better economy than when they started. 10 of the last 11 recessions have been under republican's leadership. And even then the "wins" of economic policy of republicans (most notably Regan) tend to be short term at best and disastrous consequences later down the line.

 

[PureX]

The difference is that we Europeans have always tried to stop this war. By using the sanctions methods, and not the weaponry method.

"You Europeans" are doing the exact same things that we are. You're just more willing to sell out Ukraine for your own convenience.

I need to remind that in February 2022, Macron flew to Kiev to convince Zelenskyy to implement Minsk and to find an agreement with Moscow.
It's all documented and written.

Yes, to sell out Ukraine for your own convenience.