Fatherhood

[SomeRandom]

So, as a person firmly in the Devi camp, I'm sure you will all know what I think of motherhood based on my religious upbringing.
Fierce, all encompassing and something strong. Almost savage in a way. A bond that is unbreakable, sophisticated but also in a sense primal. A protective force that is hard to describe. I, personally, hold to those beliefs in the motherhood principle. Having witnessed them myself in my own life in fact.

But what of fatherhood. I count my father as my first mentor, but in my own upbringing, a father is a force of discipline and of masculinity. Mine wasn't, despite being very much "old world." I love my ma, but I was always closest to my father growing up. Which caused me much confusion and guilt. But that's my own issues.

But what do you think, as both people and Hindus as the force of fatherhood to be?

What do you hold as the epitome as fatherhood, as understood in dharmic terms?

 

[Vinayaka]

So, as a person firmly in the Devi camp, I'm sure you will all know what I think of motherhood based on my religious upbringing.
Fierce, all encompassing and something strong. Almost savage in a way. A bond that is unbreakable, sophisticated but also in a sense primal. A protective force that is hard to describe. I, personally, hold to those beliefs in the motherhood principle. Having witnessed them myself in my own life in fact.

But what of fatherhood. I count my father as my first mentor, but in my own upbringing, a father is a force of discipline and of masculinity. Mine wasn't, despite being very much "old world." I love my ma, but I was always closest to my father growing up. Which caused me much confusion and guilt. But that's my own issues.

But what do you think, as both people and Hindus as the force of fatherhood to be?

What do you hold as the epitome as fatherhood, as understood in dharmic terms?

The spiritual (not at all in a heavy handed way) guide by example. A counsellor, a friend, etc.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I love my ma, but I was always closest to my father growing up.

Oedipus complex. Your father too loved your mother. A Mother is complete only with a father. Why the complex? Prakriti and Purusha.

 

[Kirran]

Of course it'll change between people and over time, but I think the father in this sense is the silent witness. Among other things, no doubt.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

The role of a father has changed a lot over the years. From head of household and resource provider to now-a-days often acting as both mother and father as a single parent. The source of sustenance and nurturing (which is a role that women have been familiar with for millennia). The role of what a father should be has also changed with the changing definitions of masculinity (some toxic, some not). So on a social level, I think the role of "mother" and"father" is constantly in flux and being redefined.

On a spiritual level? Perhaps it's simply meant as a reflection of the concept of duality - two sides of the same coin. Or two qualities meeting in the middle to create a new whole.

 

[Kirran]

I find that feminine/masculine at a spiritual level has a fairly tangential relationship with masculine and feminine in a social/cultural/biological context.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Spiritual level is asexual. Dualities belong to the Samsara (perceived world).

 

[SomeRandom]

Oedipus complex. Your father too loved your mother. A Mother is complete only with a father. Why the complex? Prakriti and Purusha.

Whoah there Uncle. That's super creepy. Like geez! lol

 

[DeviChaaya]

I wanted to add my own voice even though I know it will not be adding much to the discussion.

What of the father? Genetically/biologically he only provides the incentive and requisite DNA material to trigger the multiplication of the cells within the egg within the womb. In extreme forms of Shakta, and to an extent some Shaiva, practice Shiva is seen as inanimate, forever unmoving. It is Shakti that is impregnated by Shiva and expands and dances. Shiva stays back, distant, because Shiva is all, just as Shakti is all. Without one and the other you cannot have the third - us, the 'children' of this union.

On a more... grounded level; I grew up without a father or a father figure. My mother dated only occasionally and when she did finally meet my step father I did not (and still do not) like him. When he officially became my step father and moved in with us he became aggressive nasty around me. He slapped me in the face on the eve of their wedding and the topic of him drove me to attempt suicide. Not long after that I was kicked out of home (I say kicked but really my mother got me a place to live and helped me move out. If he'd had his way I probably would have been literally kicked out with nothing). I've never returned home for any length of time and five years later I moved interstate. He still makes me very uncomfortable around him; there is not a meeting where my heart doesn't beat a little faster and my adrenal glands spurt out some fear. But, he has never since tried to hurt me and I think he also realised that if it really comes down to a decision between me or him my mother will choose me all the time.

I believe much of this is due to toxic masculinity and the belief that once a man enters a house he is the 'man of the house'. Too often fatherhood is portrayed as the distant watcher, the hander out of discipline, the bread winner. This is foolish. Men are capable of the same range of motions women are, a man can be more of a mother to his children than their actual mother; it is all about the temperament and societal expectations.

I suppose this is a long way of saying that my experience has scarred me. I am instinctively wary around men, to the point that I am even anxious around boys. The only 'man' I have ever felt comfortable paying my devotions to is Shiva; I often skip Ganesh and Kartikeyya precisely because I am averse to men. I do not even like to hear of Shiva referred to as my father! I jerk back from that; no, he is a friend, a teacher, a mentor but he is not my father.

Mother, on the other hand? Shiva can be Ma just as Ma can be Shiva. They are inseparable, just as we should be. We must stop neglecting our complete personality traits simply because they might be too masculine or feminine. Men can be just as maternal as women and women can be just as paternal as men. Only when we view each other as true equals do truly value the others work.

(Short form: Fathers, fatherhood and men scare me, therefore I'm happy to neglect the concept of fathers and fatherhood entirely.)

 

[Aupmanyav]

A Mother is complete only with a father.

I retract the statement. Very Indian. Not true for the whole world.

 

[Kirran]

Men are capable of the same range of motions women are, a man can be more of a mother to his children than their actual mother; it is all about the temperament and societal expectations.

Thanks for sharing all that, Devi. Just to chime in - as far as societal expectations go, my father was probably more of a mother to me. Although to be honest, there were no gender divisions in how they raised me, so my relationship with each has just been about their individual personalities. I don't think either had any consciousness of having some 'mother' or 'father' role they needed to fulfill. I'm happy about that.

What motherhood really is, and what having a mother is, is something I have learnt through worship of Ma. It is a very different relationship to that with either of my parents.

 

[Shrew]

There is a list of attitudes (bhavas) you can have when you worship God.
Courisously, the bhava of a child towards his/her father is missing...

• śāntabhāva, the calm, peaceful, gentle or saintly attitude
• dāsyabhāva, the attitude of devotion
• sakhyabhāva, the attitude of a friend
• vātsalyabhāva, the attitude of a mother towards her child
• madhurabhāva (or kantabhava), the attitude of a woman in love
• tanmayabhava, the attitude that the Lord is present everywhere

 

[Aupmanyav]

If you notice, also the attitude of a child to its mother. It is so common but still missing. There must be a reason for it. Perhaps this is not a complete list of 'bhavas' (attitudes towards the deity). I think, it was counted as 'dasyabhava' (teeh attitude of devotion).

 

[Shantanu]

So, as a person firmly in the Devi camp, I'm sure you will all know what I think of motherhood based on my religious upbringing.
Fierce, all encompassing and something strong. Almost savage in a way. A bond that is unbreakable, sophisticated but also in a sense primal. A protective force that is hard to describe. I, personally, hold to those beliefs in the motherhood principle. Having witnessed them myself in my own life in fact.

But what of fatherhood. I count my father as my first mentor, but in my own upbringing, a father is a force of discipline and of masculinity. Mine wasn't, despite being very much "old world." I love my ma, but I was always closest to my father growing up. Which caused me much confusion and guilt. But that's my own issues.

But what do you think, as both people and Hindus as the force of fatherhood to be?

What do you hold as the epitome as fatherhood, as understood in dharmic terms?

I used to treat my father as my God until I actually found God and saw my fathers shortcomings. But long after he has left this world I still love and respect him for the guidance he gave me during my formative years. Human beings come and go but God is always there.