Feminist Only: "Angry Feminist" Stereotype?

[MysticSang'ha]

Recently a video was posted about how a woman felt disregarded by feminists, has called out feminists for the lack of response and support, and most pointedly....expressed anger repeatedly throughout.

Many anti-feminists have applauded this womans anger. Suggesting that if she is angry, she has a right to be angry.

I agree that she has a right to be angry. I personally have a thing for outspoken women, as it is, but I totally support women who speak out, call out, and express rage at injustice.

I'd like to open discussion on the criticism thrown toward feminists that we are angry, as if 1) anger is proof of the lack of rational argument for our critique of a current status quo, and 2) anger is what makes us less approachable. That if we are angry, our anger is working against us, or that we shouldn't be angry.

I have a few questions for fellow feminists on RF for educational purposes and for better understanding...

- How do you respond to the criticism of the stereotype, and especially when during debates our emotional states are brought up as marks against us?
- Where is the stereotype most employed during debates and discussions?
- Do you see the stereotype utilized more or less as each Wave passes?

 

[Sunstone]

OPs like the above really **** me off.

 

[Sunstone]

More seriously, I think there's something of a double-standard (yeah, the old double-standard complaint). If you ran a headline saying "Angry Feminists_______________" wouldn't you be likely to get a very different response than if you ran a headline saying "Angry Democrats_____________ " or "Angry Republicans_______________"?

It seems to me there's a bit of a stigma to be associated with the word "angry", but the stigma is worse if you happen to be both angry and feminist.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

OPs like this one really **** me off.

That's a shame.

Oh, wait! You were joking....

More seriously, I think there's something of a double-standard (yeah, the old double-standard complaint). If you ran a headline saying "Angry Feminists_______________" wouldn't you be likely to get a very different response than if you ran a headline saying "Angry Democrats_____________ " or "Angry Republicans_______________"?

I think it does play into the Female=Emotional=Irrational stereotype that is used to discredit claims made. As if the expectation is for feminists to either be completely logical and unemotional, or to be rage-filled piles of insanity. I think the expectation is that feminists are not people with complexity of experience, as humans are known to have.

I do see what you're saying, though.

 

[Sunstone]

I think it's might be more common to attempt to demean feminists by calling them "strident" or even "vocal". "Vocal" might be a rather clumsy way to attempt to demean them, but I've seen it used again and again.

 

[Sunstone]

I think it does play into the Female=Emotional=Irrational stereotype that is used to discredit claims made. As if the expectation is for feminists to either be completely logical and unemotional, or to be rage-filled piles of insanity. I think the expectation is that feminists are not people with complexity of experience, as humans are known to have.

To be sure, it's used against both men and women, though, as a sneaky way of silencing them without addressing what they're saying. I think it's quite possible it's more likely to be used against women -- but I don't necessarily mean in frequency. Rather, if a woman shows just a little bit of anger, I think she's more likely to be accused of being angry than is a man showing the same modest amount of anger. I don't have any science on that, however, so I could be wrong.

I think you're right about the Female=Emotional=Irrational stereotype. As if you're somehow made more rational by systematically repressing every emotion in your body except anger, hatred, and horniness.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think it's might be more common to attempt to demean feminists by calling them "strident" or even "vocal". "Vocal" might be a rather clumsy way to attempt to demean them, but I've seen it used again and again.

I noticed that too. That probably is a good topic for another thread, since being vocal at all as a criticism speaks to a larger and more pervasive gender expecation.

My thoughts are that the criticism against some feminist rhetoric for being too caustic, angry, or full of rage at an injustice is the hallmark for what is coined the "Tone Argument." Suggesting that we always need to be calm, rational, and should never raise our voices if we wish to be considered approachable or if we wish to connect with others.

 

[SomeRandom]

Hey I'm a feminist and I agreed with the anger espoused by the lady in question. And with the notion that she is angry for the right reasons.

*angry stomp*

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Hey I'm a feminist and I agreed with the anger espoused by the lady in question. And with the notion that she is angry for the right reasons.

*angry stomp*

I agree!

Now, about the criticism toward feminists for being angry....

 

[SomeRandom]

I agree!

Now, about the criticism toward feminists for being angry....

I think it's a weak argument. Tying back to the whole "oh you're just on your rag" deal.

 

[Kirran]

I tend to find anger a little off-putting generally, I prefer people to calm down. But I have no issue with a feminist being angry, per se. Criticising a feminist for being angry strikes me as rather invalid, and as Sunstone said is basically coming out of the irrational female stereotype.

But anger can encourage irrationality. Like, there is a correlation there, an angry person is less likely to be rational than a non-angry person.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm kind of reminded of another stereotype I've heard of, the angry black woman? I think it's a fair comparison.

I've personally only heard of it as a sort of background Strawman feminist, particularly in media that portrays feminists as "man-haters". It's frustrating, particularly in terms of the fact that anger is, you know, a natural emotion that is felt and expressed by feminists, anti-feminists, and everyone else given any heated issue (so if I were to say "angry anti-feminists claim ... ", it would be just as meaningless).

Honestly, I see far more anger from the anti-feminist crowd than I do the feminist crowd, but that's just my perception.

 

[Kirran]

Honestly, I see far more anger from the anti-feminist crowd than I do the feminist crowd, but that's just my perception.

Takes more anger to try to justify their position, I think.

 

[Sunstone]

Takes more anger to try to justify their position, I think.

And perhaps to some extent their position attracts people who are angry at women to begin with. I don't mean, though, that everyone who is anti-feminist is angry.

 

[Kirran]

And perhaps to some extent their position attracts people who are angry at women to begin with. I don't mean, though, that everyone who is anti-feminist is angry.

No, but I think that makes sense as an idea. A lot of guy develop anger at women, and it's easier on the ego to point it at feminists.

 

[Sunstone]

No, but I think that makes sense as an idea. A lot of guy develop anger at women, and it's easier on the ego to point it at feminists.

ROFL!!! I think -- based on my 58 years on this planet -- if every man who was angry at women solely or primarily because one, another, or several women refused to lay them, had to wear a badge saying, "This is really why I'm pissed off at women", then a whole lot of important politicians, pundits and preachers would be found wearing badges.

 

[Kirran]

ROFL!!! I think -- based on my 58 years on this planet -- if every man who was angry at women solely or primarily because one, another, or several women refused to lay them, had to wear a badge saying, "This is really why I'm pissed off at women", then a whole lot of important politicians, pundits and preachers would be found wearing badges.

If you start campaigning for that, I'll set up a company selling badges. I'll make a killing.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm kind of reminded of another stereotype I've heard of, the angry black woman? I think it's a fair comparison.

Yes indeed. That's a trope that has been used even more frequently to dismiss the concerns that women of color have, including the dismissals coming from white feminists.

I've personally only heard of it as a sort of background Strawman feminist, particularly in media that portrays feminists as "man-haters". It's frustrating, particularly in terms of the fact that anger is, you know, a natural emotion that is felt and expressed by feminists, anti-feminists, and everyone else given any heated issue (so if I were to say "angry anti-feminists claim ... ", it would be just as meaningless).

It's definitely a natural emotion. The strawman has been used everywhere, including RF....by suggesting to feminists that they're "too emotional", or "venting doesn't address my point" (just a couple recent examples here).

Honestly, I see far more anger from the anti-feminist crowd than I do the feminist crowd, but that's just my perception.

I see far more anger, rape threats, and death threats from the anti-feminist crowd than I do from feminists. However, it's important to note that women of color do see a lot of anger from white feminists toward them when they address Black Feminist or Womanist issues. It's also important to note when feminists direct anger inward toward other marginalized feminists....such as trans people, non-binary people, or the disabled....that it's part of the issues that make up intersectionality.

If there IMO is a legitimate criticism about anger within feminism, it's that, since all feminists are doing at that point is trading oppressions.

 

[Kirran]

However, it's important to note that women of color do see a lot of anger from white feminists toward them when they address Black Feminist or Womanist issues.

Not to derail, but how does this manifest itself? I can't get my head around it.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Not to derail, but how does this manifest itself? I can't get my head around it.

When women of color bring up the rates of rape and sexual assault as affecting them in far greater numbers and percentages than white women, or when women of color bring up police brutality, the wage gap between them and white women, etc.

Many times white feminists do not acknowledge the disparity or become annoyed that Black Feminism or Womanism is even a "thing."

It's the same gripe that egalitarians have toward feminism..."Why do you have to have a female-specific qualifier when it comes to equality? Aren't we ALL wanting equal rights?"

White feminists tend to ask Black Feminism and Womanism..."Why do you have to have a color-specific qualifer when it comes to equality? Aren't we ALL feminists and wanting equal rights?"

So when the issue is pressed again and again, because women of color keep bringing up their stories of injustice, too often white feminists or cis feminists (when trans people ask for solidarity on their fights against injustice) will dismiss, deride, or - worse- threaten women in intersectional concerns.