Fetal Consciousness

[Nakosis]

can a fetus have any kind of consciousness if the brain isn't formed enough to sense anything remotely?

4. Fetal pain is difficult to define.
A bit of biology that’s often used to restrict abortions is the claim that fetuses (which form at week 11 of pregnancy) feel pain.

“Pain is very complex,” Swartz says. “It requires not just a physical response, but the ability to suffer as a result.”

Knowing what a fetus experiences is impossible, but brain development studies provide some clues. The experience of pain starts with the senses detecting something noxious. Those signals then have to travel to the cortex, the outer layer of the brain that helps interpret that sensation. In human fetuses, those brain connections don’t exist until about week 24 or 25 of pregnancy. In guidelines written by members of the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine, researchers write that these connections are necessary for the experience of pain, but are not sufficient on their own to conclude that pain is possible.

So what would you perfer that the demarcation be?

We can't even be identify consciousness in adults. Even the reference you provided said this was impossible.

 

[Fool]

Everything is a belief. Like your idea that one isn't human until birth. It's not a belief supported by the evidence, BTW.

no it isn't. a belief can be discovered to be true when tested against reality.


belief is necessary to realize things but it isn't something one should hold onto especially about another. the believer is white washing things that might not be realized. the belief that you're going to be shot is possibly real in the face of someone pointing a loaded gun at you. the , possibility is very, very likely. you're not leaving your home because the potential of harm is possible, is not healthy. no one is actually threatening you.


belief by itself is naive. jesus said to ask, knock, seek. act when things are real with love and the belief will be realized. with love all things are possible but over-riding someone's conscience isn't loving.

 

[Fool]

So what would you perfer that the demarcation be?

We can't even be identify consciousness in adults. Even the reference you provided said this was impossible.

sentience requires fully working senses.

 

[Nakosis]

sentience requires fully working senses.

According to who?

Anyway not what I asked.
Do you think some abortions should be illegal or should a woman be able to get an abortion at will up until the minute of birth?

 

[Fool]

According to who?

Anyway not what I asked.
Do you think some abortions should be illegal or should a woman be able to get an abortion at will up until the minute of birth?

notice the two words? notice how they seem to be very similar.


BOOM

sentient (adj.)
1630s, "capable of feeling, having the power of or characterized by the exercise of sense-perception," from Latin sentientem (nominative sentiens) "feeling," present participle of sentire "to feel" (see sense (n.)). Related: Sentiently.

 

[Nakosis]

notice the two words? notice how they seem to be very similar.


BOOM

sentient (adj.)
1630s, "capable of feeling, having the power of or characterized by the exercise of sense-perception," from Latin sentientem (nominative sentiens) "feeling," present participle of sentire "to feel" (see sense (n.)). Related: Sentiently.

So when is that?

 

[Fool]

So when is that?

Knowing what a fetus experiences is impossible, but brain development studies provide some clues. The experience of pain starts with the senses detecting something noxious. Those signals then have to travel to the cortex, the outer layer of the brain that helps interpret that sensation. In human fetuses, those brain connections don’t exist until about week 24 or 25 of pregnancy. In guidelines written by members of the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine, researchers write that these connections are necessary for the experience of pain, but are not sufficient on their own to conclude that pain is possible.

 

[Nakosis]

Knowing what a fetus experiences is impossible, but brain development studies provide some clues. The experience of pain starts with the senses detecting something noxious. Those signals then have to travel to the cortex, the outer layer of the brain that helps interpret that sensation. In human fetuses, those brain connections don’t exist until about week 24 or 25 of pregnancy. In guidelines written by members of the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine, researchers write that these connections are necessary for the experience of pain, but are not sufficient on their own to conclude that pain is possible.

So after 6.25 months you think abortion should be illegal?

 

[Twilight Hue]

can a fetus have any kind of consciousness if the brain isn't formed enough to sense anything remotely?

4. Fetal pain is difficult to define.
A bit of biology that’s often used to restrict abortions is the claim that fetuses (which form at week 11 of pregnancy) feel pain.

“Pain is very complex,” Swartz says. “It requires not just a physical response, but the ability to suffer as a result.”

Knowing what a fetus experiences is impossible, but brain development studies provide some clues. The experience of pain starts with the senses detecting something noxious. Those signals then have to travel to the cortex, the outer layer of the brain that helps interpret that sensation. In human fetuses, those brain connections don’t exist until about week 24 or 25 of pregnancy. In guidelines written by members of the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine, researchers write that these connections are necessary for the experience of pain, but are not sufficient on their own to conclude that pain is possible.

Yea it's conscious as it's comprised of living matter.

My focus is, like you, on the aspect of pain. Thats where I see the uncrossable line in regards to abortion.

 

[Callisto]

"Legal" has nothing to do with right or wrong.

If legal has nothing to do with it then why is there so much effort to coerce legislation?

 

[Sand Dancer]

"Legal" has nothing to do with right or wrong.

Of course not, because right and wrong is usually decided by societies.

 

[Sand Dancer]

no it isn't. a belief can be discovered to be true when tested against reality.


belief is necessary to realize things but it isn't something one should hold onto especially about another. the believer is white washing things that might not be realized. the belief that you're going to be shot is possibly real in the face of someone pointing a loaded gun at you. the , possibility is very, very likely. you're not leaving your home because the potential of harm is possible, is not healthy. no one is actually threatening you.


belief by itself is naive. jesus said to ask, knock, seek. act when things are real with love and the belief will be realized. with love all things are possible but over-riding someone's conscience isn't loving.

Beliefs are good for individuals. They should not extend past that. Even church members don't agree on specific beliefs.

 

[Fool]

Beliefs are good for individuals. They should not extend past that. Even church members don't agree on specific beliefs.

not everyone is at the same level of spiritual/mental/psychological growth having tested their beliefs in reality. with love comes wisdom

 

[Wildswanderer]

belief by itself is naive. jesus said to ask, knock, seek. act when things are real with love and the belief will be realized. with love all things are possible but over-riding someone's conscience isn't loving.

I have no idea what that means. Is English your language?

 

[Wildswanderer]

If legal has nothing to do with it then why is there so much effort to coerce legislation?

Coerce? Everyone is trying to get laws in line with what they believe.
A law allowing wrongdoing doesn't make it moral, though.

 

[Callisto]

Coerce? Everyone is trying to get laws in line with what they believe.
A law allowing wrongdoing doesn't make it moral, though.

Well, when wrongdoing actually happens to be the case then you may have a point. A woman's right to privacy and body sovereignty don't constitute wrongdoing.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Well, when wrongdoing actually happens to be the case then you may have a point. A woman's right to privacy and body sovereignty don't constitute wrongdoing.

You are forgetting someone in that equation.

 

[Callisto]

You are forgetting someone in that equation.

There's not enough formed to constitute another someone.

 

[Fool]

I have no idea what that means. Is English your language?

It basically means people who rely on belief and act on it are either extremely naive or enjoy treating actual humans like objects for their pleasure

 

[BrightShadow]

can a fetus have any kind of consciousness if the brain isn't formed enough to sense anything remotely?

4. Fetal pain is difficult to define.
A bit of biology that’s often used to restrict abortions is the claim that fetuses (which form at week 11 of pregnancy) feel pain.

“Pain is very complex,” Swartz says. “It requires not just a physical response, but the ability to suffer as a result.”

Knowing what a fetus experiences is impossible, but brain development studies provide some clues. The experience of pain starts with the senses detecting something noxious. Those signals then have to travel to the cortex, the outer layer of the brain that helps interpret that sensation. In human fetuses, those brain connections don’t exist until about week 24 or 25 of pregnancy. In guidelines written by members of the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine, researchers write that these connections are necessary for the experience of pain, but are not sufficient on their own to conclude that pain is possible.

When does it show sign of self preservation?
Six days to ten days from conception (fertilization) - an embryo reaches blastocyst stage where it burrows into uterine lining. This stage is called "implantation".
What does that mean? It means embryo wants to access a source of nourishment.
Why? Because it wants to live, it wants to grow.

Those who deny calling that consciousness, awareness, sentience - are only fooling themselves. But they can't fool a supreme entity. IMO

Despite of its dependency on the host (mother) - an embryo in its blastocyst stage exhibits survival instinct . I believe once the embryo reaches the implantation stage - the host (mother) should give a serious consideration to facilitate its growth. If Mother's health is not in jeopardy - then every means should be taken by everyone involved (mother, doctor) to ensure a smooth pregnancy. I believe that is what a supreme entity would expect from a host (mother).