Finland's strategy for fighting forest fires

[Stevicus]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...-raking/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f42976f05608

Months before devastating wildfires caused havoc in California, firefighters from across Europe headed to Sweden as authorities there struggled to extinguish several massive blazes. Sweden is one of the continent’s greenest countries, and officials there eventually got so desperate that they ordered an air force jet to drop a bomb in the middle of the wildfire’s center to deprive the blaze of oxygen.

The strategy failed, and Sweden’s fires continued to rage for weeks. But just a few hundred miles away, in neighboring Finland, officials worried about a far different problem: not enough wildfires. “From nature’s point of view, the diversity of species and habitats suffers from too few fires,” the Finnish Forest Association recently concluded in a report.

In Sweden, officials were stymied by their neighbor’s luck: Weather maps showed that both countries were adversely affected by the same rare, extreme heat this summer.

Apparently, while Trump was in France, the subject came up and was discussed with the Finnish president, although Trump said that it was due to Finland raking and cleaning the forest floor:

Over the weekend, Finnish President Sauli Niinisto was forced to clarify that this strategy does not consist of raking, however. He was contradicting his U.S. counterpart, President Trump, who said Saturday as he was touring California’s wildfire areas that Finnish authorities “spent a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things, and they don’t have any problem.”

“You’ve got to take care of the floors. You know the floors of the forests, it’s very important,” Trump said.

However, the Finnish president said that it was not due to raking, however they do have controlled burns:

The Finnish president confirmed that he discussed wildfire prevention with Trump, but rejected the suggestion that raking ever came up. The forest service in Finland does carry out controlled burns of the forest floor mostly to clear away underbrush and also promote new saplings.

Researchers aren’t sure whether the country’s approach can really hold any lessons for California, however, given that parts of Finland are located close to the Arctic Circle and have prolonged periods of rain and snow. Whereas below-average precipitation is still the exception in Finland, it has become the new normal in California.

Researchers say that Finland has a far denser road network than other nations in the region, which create barriers to the expansion of the blazes. Lakes and rivers are abundant, too. With many of the California fires happening near population centers now, a lack of roads is probably not the issue.

Perhaps the most striking difference with California is of historical nature: Northern Europe is greener today than 100 years ago, whereas California has lost about half of its big trees. Europe’s medieval and industrial revolution-era need for wood turned former forest areas into grasslands, especially in southern Finland.

The article also mentions that Finland has compartmentalized its forests to prevent fires from spreading beyond a single compartment. Although that may not work for California.

When reforestation became a more serious concern, Finland split future forests up into small compartments. One side effect of this were fewer wildfires, as blazes usually don’t spread beyond a single compartment, with borders that are usually marked by wide paths or by trees with different heights.

While that approach may work in other European countries with similar histories, climate change California with its steadily heating up forests are facing a challenge that it can’t confront itself.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Trump said that it was due to Finland raking and cleaning the forest floor

LOL.

Only the best words. He's very highly educated, you know:

 

[Curious George]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...-raking/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f42976f05608



Apparently, while Trump was in France, the subject came up and was discussed with the Finnish president, although Trump said that it was due to Finland raking and cleaning the forest floor:



However, the Finnish president said that it was not due to raking, however they do have controlled burns:





The article also mentions that Finland has compartmentalized its forests to prevent fires from spreading beyond a single compartment. Although that may not work for California.

Some of the native tribes like the Chumash used to purposefully burn the area. Indeed their are even seeds that need fire in order to grow. Many native species have evolved with fires. Controlled burns is definitely something parts of California need to consider resuming.

 

[Twilight Hue]

LOL.

Only the best words. He's very highly educated, you know:

Raking is pretty effective. The dead matter is a key factor in many of the fires spreading and lasting as long as they do.

Some of the native tribes like the Chumash used to purposefully burn the area. Indeed their are even seeds that need fire in order to grow. Many native species have evolved with fires. Controlled burns is definitely something parts of California need to consider resuming.

All they need to do is bring back the logging companies like they used to. I remember all the warnings California got If they ceased logging.

Of course, do you think California would listen. They didn't then, and they probably wont listen now, yet they received ample warnings in the past of the consequences and nobody should be surprised that they ended up suffering for it now. It's a little hard to shed tears for California in that respect. It doesn't help environmentalism much if you burn down the very thing you're trying to "protect".
AKA.. Idiocy incarnate.

Loggers can rake the deadwood off the floor and use it for particle board as well as creating fire breaks that comes with a good logging plan.

 

[Curious George]

Raking is pretty effective. The dead matter is a key factor in many of the fires spreading and lasting as long as they do.


All they need to do is bring back the logging companies like they used to.

They can rake the deadwood off the floor and use it for particle board as well as creating fire breaks that comes with a good logging plan.

I dont think the Chumash had logging companies.

 

[Revoltingest]

The article also mentions that Finland has compartmentalized its forests to prevent fires from spreading beyond a single compartment. Although that may not work for California.

It also won't work for migratory & wide ranging critters.
To islandize forests would kill off many species.
I say the better approach is more thoughtful building & landscaping.
This way, forest fires won't have such dire human consequences.

Raking the forest floor?
How ridiculous!

 

[Twilight Hue]

I dont think the Chumash had logging companies.

I don't think the enbattled and notably fustrated nation would be available to help very much anyways until they get this Camp 4 issue ironed out with the state.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Raking is pretty effective. The dead matter is a key factor in many of the fires spreading and lasting as long as they do.


All they need to do is bring back the logging companies like they used to. I remember all the warnings California got If they ceased logging.

Of course, do you think California would listen. They didn't then, and they probably wont listen now, yet they received ample warnings in the past of the consequences and nobody should be surprised that they ended up suffering for it now. It's a little hard to shed tears for California in that respect. It doesn't help environmentalism much if you burn down the very thing you're trying to "protect".
AKA.. Idiocy incarnate.

Loggers can rake the deadwood off the floor and use it for particle board as well as creating fire breaks that comes with a good logging plan.

They ignored it because that's not how the science works. Old growth forest is the most resistant to burning and disease which makes vulnerable standing dead wood. Clear cutting not only doesn't help prevent forest fires, but it also encourages it in several ways. Not only does it remove water retention from the area, but it allows more uninhibited growth of shrub which then must be maintained even more. And dense small trees provide more fuel and less fire resistance.
The increase of fires isn't from lack of logging, but lack of rain.
Redirect Notice

 

[Twilight Hue]

They ignored it because that's not how the science works. Old growth forest is the most resistant to burning and disease which makes vulnerable standing dead wood. Clear cutting not only doesn't help prevent forest fires, but it also encourages it in several ways. Not only does it remove water retention from the area, but it allows more uninhibited growth of shrub which then must be maintained even more. And dense small trees provide more fuel and less fire resistance.
The increase of fires isn't from lack of logging, but lack of rain.
Redirect Notice

That's simply not true. Fire departments themselves clear-cut.

 

[YmirGF]

All I can say is that I have spent hundreds of hours cutting brush and raking needles from around the house and the perimeter of the property for about 50 feet on both sides of the fencing and at least 100 feel all around the house. The sole intent is to remove dry fuel...

 

[ADigitalArtist]

That's simply not true. Fire departments themselves clear-cut.

Creating residential barrier zones is a lot different than industrial cutting. And the effectiveness of barrier zones is also disputed with drought as bad as it's been.
More importantly, more large trees is more effective fire suppression than a lot of little trees.
Why Trump won't talk about the real reason for California's wildfires

 

[YmirGF]

Creating residential barrier zones is a lot different than industrial cutting. And the effectiveness of barrier zones is also disputed with drought as bad as it's been.
More importantly, more large trees is more effective fire suppression than a lot of little trees.

That is a very important point, @ADigitalArtist

Here, on my island paradise, once we hit the "tinderbox" stage in about July, nothing matters, if you are not prepared because the entire forest become deadly dry, where a spark can literally start a wild fire in your back yard! You learn to be safe in rural areas early on.

 

[Revoltingest]

All I can say is that I have spent hundreds of hours cutting brush and raking needles from around the house and the perimeter of the property for about 50 feet on both sides of the fencing and at least 100 feel all around the house. The sole intent is to remove dry fuel...

Aye, the wise landscaper is the ultimate survivor.
When Mr Truck (may he RIP) ballooned into a fireball
a couple years ago, the fire didn't spread. It did kill
a nearby eastern white pine though. (They hate heat.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Creating residential barrier zones.....

Just ensure that my forest friends have corridors for commuting between glens & glades.
(They're watching you.)

 

[David T]

Raking is pretty effective. The dead matter is a key factor in many of the fires spreading and lasting as long as they do.


All they need to do is bring back the logging companies like they used to. I remember all the warnings California got If they ceased logging.

Of course, do you think California would listen. They didn't then, and they probably wont listen now, yet they received ample warnings in the past of the consequences and nobody should be surprised that they ended up suffering for it now. It's a little hard to shed tears for California in that respect. It doesn't help environmentalism much if you burn down the very thing you're trying to "protect".
AKA.. Idiocy incarnate.

Loggers can rake the deadwood off the floor and use it for particle board as well as creating fire breaks that comes with a good logging plan.

Off topic

 

[Sanzbir]

Finland has such a cold climate fire simply doesn't exist there.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Off topic

I'd say it's pretty on spot.

 

[David T]

I'd say it's pretty on spot.

Property development and brush management is specifically the topic. Way over your head. Thinning forrests is not very profitable but over growth due to replanting id rrquired along wiyh unnaturally developed forest due to logging. Further mote vrush mainance of thin ed forrests is critical and the elimination of fire suppression at all costs needs to stop. Thus property develop. and expansions into forested areas need to be considered more carefully by owners.
Ths camp fire which of all thesr fires cali has recently have had was a thinned forest with massive undergrowth. Loggers are going to be brush management rather than tree cutters by and large. That is goung to cost a lot of money regardless its not tax free.
Facing Deadlier Fires, California Tries Something New: More Logging

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Finland has such a cold climate fire simply doesn't exist there.

Firefighters battle forest fires in northern and southwest Finland

 

[Sanzbir]

Firefighters battle forest fires in northern and southwest Finland

Fakenews. Everyone knows fire in Finland is myth propagated by Russian bots that are still salty over loosing Talvisota to superior Finnish coldness.