First Cause

[Jumi]

There was no cause before movement.

So you're saying that there was non-caused movement and it turned to be the first cause?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So you're saying that there was non-caused movement and it turned to be the first cause?

I'm saying movement created cause and effect by creating space. The first cause was the first one that happened after it was created.

 

[Skwim]

I'm saying movement created cause and effect by creating space.

What was moving?

.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

What was moving?

.

The goo that was the universe.

 

[Baroodi]

Skies and earth were one unit and separated after the big bang probably. God was there, his Throne was on water and He created heavens and earth in 6 days

( And He created heavens and earth in six days, His throne was on water. To test you, who is the best in doing good)

Noble Quran: Hood verse 7

 

[ChristineM]

I'm saying cause and effect began at the same time.

Cause and effect didn't began until some small time after

 

[ChristineM]

The goo that was the universe.

A singularity is not goo, it is far too dense for goo

 

[Baroodi]

( And We built the sky by force and We will be expanding)

Noble Quran: EL Zariyat; verse 47

 

[sandy whitelinger]

A singularity is not goo, it is far too dense for goo

I don't believe he was asking about the singularity. Technically I think the state of the early universe was plasma.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Cause and effect didn't began until some small time after

Why do you say that?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Skies and earth were one unit and separated after the big bang probably. God was there, his Throne was on water and He created heavens and earth in 6 days

( And He created heavens and earth in six days, His throne was on water. To test you, who is the best in doing good)

Noble Quran: Hood verse 7

Thank you for that.

 

[osgart]

The singularity must have a cause to its being. Unless it is eternal.

I can count time independently of universal time. So who's to say time is constricted to only the universe. There must be an independent flow of time where all times of all universe's derive
from.

Even in the total absence of time there is the passing of seconds and so forth. So movement itself you can't escape inside and outside of time. I bet movement is considered time itself to people. Yet I believe that movement is eternally moving, and nothing is ever completely still.

There's probably something underneath space itself. Perhaps layers of reality. Space inflates within an area. There is no nothing.

Finally something must be eternal and uncaused. It may be the stuff of the universe is from eternity.

 

[Skwim]

I don't believe he was asking about the singularity. Technically I think the state of the early universe was plasma.

A charged gas? Really?

 

[Subduction Zone]

A charged gas? Really?

Right after the Big Bang the temperature was too high for atoms with electrons orbiting them. It was not until about 377,000 years after the Big Bang that nuclei and electrons combined. That was also the time that the cosmic background radiation formed:

Chronology of the universe - Wikipedia

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The singularity must have a cause to its being. Unless it is eternal.

I can count time independently of universal time. So who's to say time is constricted to only the universe. There must be an independent flow of time where all times of all universe's derive
from.

Even in the total absence of time there is the passing of seconds and so forth. So movement itself you can't escape inside and outside of time. I bet movement is considered time itself to people. Yet I believe that movement is eternally moving, and nothing is ever completely still.

There's probably something underneath space itself. Perhaps layers of reality. Space inflates within an area. There is no nothing.

Finally something must be eternal and uncaused. It may be the stuff of the universe is from eternity.

Time is a dimension, possibly one of twelve which were condensed down to a single point called a singularity. If there are not two points then time can't move.

 

[HonestJoe]

I think it's clear that the laws of physics do not apply to the singularity only to the universe. Only when the singularity stopped being a singularity and separation started ie. movement did other things begin to happen.

I don’t see how you can make such definitive statements about anything in this field. What evidence are you basing this assertion on?

 

[Jumi]

I'm saying movement created cause and effect by creating space. The first cause was the first one that happened after it was created.

But that movement would have to have a cause.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I don’t see how you can make such definitive statements about anything in this field. What evidence are you basing this assertion on?

It's a simple concept. The singularity was only one point. When the singularity expanded there were more than one.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

But that movement would have to have a cause.

Cause and effect weren't born yet. Cause and effect needs one thing and another thing. Cause needs something to effect. In the singularity, if cause and effect existed, they would have to be the same thing.

 

[HonestJoe]

It's a simple concept. The singularity was only one point. When the singularity expanded there were more than one.

But that ignores the possibility of there being some wider environment in which our universe (from singularity to now and beyond) exists, where some super-set of the laws of physics would apply. I’m not saying what you propose can’t be true and speculating on the basis of pre-decided assumptions is fine but my core point remains that we don’t (and possibly can’t ever) know whether any of them are correct or not.