First Cause

[metis]

My perception of infinity is that includes all things. Apparently "things didn't happen until the expansion of the universe. Therefore, as a concept, infinity didn't exist until the universe.

Not necessarily, and a majority of cosmologists, according to researcher Leonard Susskind, are leaning in that direction.

And it may be logical as what we see all the time is a chain of cause & effect that seems never-ending, so why should we conclude that all magically started at just one previous point in time? It would be this latter concept that's actually far less logical based on what we see on a day-to-day basis.

BTW, the vast majority of cosmologists do not believe that there was nothing prior to be BB, instead they strongly have been leaning more to the concept of "singularity" prior to the expansion.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

There is no expansion of the Universe. Can you imagine something like a spacetime continuum expanding?

Ciao

- viole

I imagine it often.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

BTW, the vast majority of cosmologists do not believe that there was nothing prior to be BB, instead they strongly have been leaning more to the concept of "singularity" prior to the expansion.

So if there were a time line would it look something like this: Singularity, "something," natural world.

 

[viole]

I imagine it often.

Well, then you have a lot of imagination.

I think it is obvious that space time continua cannot, by their very definition, expand. Why? Because expansion needs a space time context in order to make sense. It is an increase of space in a certain unit of time. Therefore, not at all applicable to space time itself.

Ciao

- viole

 

[ChristineM]

What's a better word? I'm dyin here.

It is unknown, there is no word but watch this space. Since i have been interested in cosmology knowledge has advanced from about 10E-24 to 10E-43 of a second after the bb event.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Not necessarily, and a majority of cosmologists, according to researcher Leonard Susskind, are leaning in that direction.

So, infinity includes "not-things?"

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Well, then you have a lot of imagination.

I think it is obvious that space time continua cannot, by their very definition, expand. Why? Because expansion needs a space time context in order to make sense. It is an increase of space in a certain unit of time. Therefore, not at all applicable to space time itself.

Ciao

- viole

I have a fertile imagination.

Help me here, I'm just a sign painter. Isn't the space time continuum a model that reduces a 4d universe down to one?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The movement was the expansion of the universe.

I see your point about the beginning though. Bad word pun I guess. A veiled reference to Scripture.

No, that would merely be reinterpreting the Bible to match reality. Muslims are past experts at doing this. I don't find it convincing when they do it with the Koran, nor do I find it convincing when Christians do this.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is no expansion of the Universe. Can you imagine something like a spacetime continuum expanding?

Ciao

- viole

And yet the evidence indicates otherwise. Do you understand why scientists accept the expansion of the universe?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No, that would merely be reinterpreting the Bible to match reality. Muslims are past experts at doing this. I don't find it convincing when they do it with the Koran, nor do I find it convincing when Christians do this.

I was just funnin. I'm actually working with a Chinese model of cosmology right now seeing how it fits with the newer models. Just kickn the tires as they say around here.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

And yet the evidence indicates otherwise. Do you understand why scientists accept the expansion of the universe?

Tricky evidence is.

 

[viole]

I have a fertile imagination.

Help me here, I'm just a sign painter. Isn't the space time continuum a model that reduces a 4d universe down to one?

No. The space time continuum is 4-dimensional, but has a different geometry than euclidean 4-dimensional space.
Bottom line, it cannot possibly move or change in anyway. That includes expanding, beginning, ending, etc.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

And yet the evidence indicates otherwise. Do you understand why scientists accept the expansion of the universe?

Just think with your brain, and do not uncritically believe what you read on pop science magazines, which are usually edited by people without the first clue in things like relativity. Not to speak of the Internet.

One thing is the expansion of space in time (as observed by us), which is a fact, and another is the expansion of the whole Universe/continuum, the latter being absurd, if relativity is true.

Now, tell me. With your own words. How does the space time continuum possibly expand? In what does it expand and at what rate?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Subduction Zone]

No. The space time continuum is 4-dimensional, but has a different geometry than euclidean 4-dimensional space.
Bottom line, it cannot possibly move or change in anyway. That includes expanding, beginning, ending, etc.

Ciao

- viole

Why? You do realize that your claim alone is not good enough, I hope.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No. The space time continuum is 4-dimensional, but has a different geometry than euclidean 4-dimensional space.
Bottom line, it cannot possibly move or change in anyway. That includes expanding, beginning, ending, etc.

Ciao

- viole

I'll need to ponder this.

 

[viole]

Why? You do realize that your claim alone is not good enough, I hope.

You mean you do not accept relativity? It's not my claim, it is what relativity entails.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just think with your brain, and do not uncritically believe what you read on pop science magazines, which are usually edited by people without the first clue in things like relativity. Not to speak of the Internet.

One thing is the expansion of space in time (as observed by us), and another is the expansion of the whole Universe, the latter being absurd, if relativity is true.

Now, tell me. With your own words. How does the space time continuum possibly expand? In what does it expand and at what rate?

Ciao

- viole

\Because we can observe it. We can see more distant galaxies moving away at ever increasing velocities as we look further and further away. And from my understanding the expansion of the universe is a byproduct of relativity. The current measured rate is 71.9 kilometers per per second per megaparsec:

The Universe Is Expanding Surprisingly Fast

You say this can't happen. What is your evidence besides your say so?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You mean you do not accept relativity? It's not my claim, it is what relativity entails.

Ciao

- viole

I do not accept your unsupported and very possibly incorrect interpretation of relativity. The physicists that accept the expansion of the universe probably understand the topic far better than you or I. I will go with those that work in the field and understand relativity rather than some random poster on a forum. You seem to be misinterpreting the theory.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No. The space time continuum is 4-dimensional, but has a different geometry than euclidean 4-dimensional space.
Bottom line, it cannot possibly move or change in anyway. That includes expanding, beginning, ending, etc.

Ciao

- viole

Is this tied into string theory?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I do not accept your unsupported and very possibly incorrect interpretation of relativity. The physicists that accept the expansion of the universe probably understand the topic far better than you or I. I will go with those that work in the field and understand relativity rather than some random poster on a forum. You seem to be misinterpreting the theory.

Now, now let's not stink up the sand box.