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First Time Visit at U.U. Church

This morning I went for the first time to a Unitarian Universalism church. I was a little shocked how liberal it was. I consider myself liberal but the church was very liberal. Lots of atheists and older lesbian couples. Well, actually there were only forty people there this morning. But I did see two or three older lesbian couples. I was told college professors like to go to this church and sure enough I found a philosopher and psychologist.

All the people were nice. I did wonder, do these people consider themselves so enlightened that they put themselves above God? The woman who led the services, the psychologist professor, is a practicing Buddhist. She was nice.

Actually, all were nice. They invited me to tea after services and I had a nice talk about philosophy while drinking tea.

Another thing - in the LDS church hardly any women talk to me. At this church lots of women talked to me. They might have been lesbians but they did talk to me. I'm not sure what to make of that. They were nice to me and that's something I want.

Another thing, the talk/sermon was a political talk against fake patriots and George Bush. I'm all for talks like that but not really on Sundays. I was wanting to hear more about God/religion.

This is a church I might return to. It's interesting and I'll admit, I like being around educated people.
 

enchanted_one1975

Resident Lycanthrope
Did you think lesbians would be downright mean to anyone that was not a lesbian? People are people, regardless of sexual orientation.
 
well I told my sister I went and talked with atheists. She said - if they are atheists then why even go to church?

So who do atheists go to the U.U. church? I told my sister it's because the church preaches peace and enlightenment.
 

enchanted_one1975

Resident Lycanthrope
Gosh I am sorry...I am not UU, but I can't suffer and watch this going on.

Aren't Christians always urging everyone to go to church? Then it stands to reason that they should be glad that Atheists are attending church. Maybe they go for the socialization. Maybe they go to keep up appearances. Maybe they are going because the rest of their family is going. Maybe they are trying to find a warm place to go for the morning. Maybe the bake sale is phenomenal. Maybe they really aren't Atheists and you just thought they were. As Storm said, the best thing to do would be to ask them. :yes: [/rant]
 
Gosh I am sorry...I am not UU, but I can't suffer and watch this going on.

Aren't Christians always urging everyone to go to church? Then it stands to reason that they should be glad that Atheists are attending church. Maybe they go for the socialization. Maybe they go to keep up appearances. Maybe they are going because the rest of their family is going. Maybe they are trying to find a warm place to go for the morning. Maybe the bake sale is phenomenal. Maybe they really aren't Atheists and you just thought they were. As Storm said, the best thing to do would be to ask them. :yes: [/rant]


I'm cool with them going. It's my sister that was wondering. I go to gain enlightenment, and other reasons. They can have their reasons too. The atheists I talked to were nice.
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
Well an LDS Church is very conservative while a UU Church is very liberal. I have never been to a UU Church but it sounds interesting :)
 

bicker

Unitarian Universalist
Gosh I am sorry...I am not UU, but I can't suffer and watch this going on.
It is a little like a train wreck, isn't it? However, a lot of us UUs know that way-too-many American (Christians, typically) simply don't understand the nature of other faiths, nor does our society foster in them a intention to develop such understanding. If they're going to do so, it needs to be self-motivated.

This morning I went for the first time to a Unitarian Universalism church. I was a little shocked how liberal it was.
Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person; acceptance of one another; and a free and responsible search for truth and meaning. As such, we don't overvalue the old and staid. We recognize that our awareness of ourselves and our universe is always improving, and therefore things that we, as humans, used to believe may have just been myths, superstitions or other distractions from universal truth. This acknowledgment and acceptance of humanities limitations is, in essence, the foundation for liberal perspective.

I consider myself liberal but the church was very liberal. Lots of atheists and older lesbian couples.
Given the innate and pervasive intolerance for them in other religions, where would you have expected those folks to be? :confused:

I did wonder, do these people consider themselves so enlightened that they put themselves above God?
Quite the opposite. From my perspective, it is (some) Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc., that place themselves above God, professing that they understand God and have "The Answer" -- asserting that the only way to truth is through their preferred religious perspective. These traditional faiths essentially put written and verbal history (including what are arguably just sets of myths) above the power of God. That's indicative of the kind of intellectual and spiritual arrogance you allude to, while UU is nothing like that. As I mentioned UUs promote and affirm the free and responsible search for truth and meaning and the right of conscience, subjugating UU, itself, to the power of reason that God has given each one of us.

The woman who led the services, the psychologist professor, is a practicing Buddhist.
One of the ways I am beginning to explain UU to folks is that it is Western civilization finally opening its mind and reaching the same conclusions about truth and God that south Asians reached 1500 years ago.

It's not precise -- otherwise, I'd be a Buddhist, I assure you. Buddhism has had 1500 years for fallible human beings to ingrain in that faith a small amount of the same intransigence that has almost completely precluded the big Western religions from reaching these critical, rational realizations. However, with regard to the basic philosophical differences between UU and Buddhism, we're not talking a big gulf here. You can map UU's seven principles and key aspects of Buddhism to each other pretty readily. There isn't much in either that isn't addressed somewhere in the other.

Another thing, the talk/sermon was a political talk against fake patriots and George Bush. I'm all for talks like that but not really on Sundays. I was wanting to hear more about God/religion.
Since UU affirms and promotes a free and responsible search for truth and meaning, and the right of conscience within our congregations, you will see religious connections made, when what happens in society (call it "politics") happens to intersect with religious issues. Heck, most of the contentious issues of our time are religious issues, being played out in the political arena where one side (typically) is attempting to impose its own religious beliefs on everyone. Politicians engaging in such practices tend to either defend them as such, or deny that their motivations are religious, whichever is more convenient for the politician.

Having said that, our church tends to consider outright attacks on the Republican Party or Republicans to be, itself, a violation of our principles. Again, referring back to our principles (amazing how useful they are, this morning, in replying to your inquiry), we affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person (i.e., including Republicans), acceptance of one another (i.e., including Republicans), a free and responsible search for truth and meaning (i.e., even by Republicans and even reaching more conservative conclusions), and the right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our society at large (you get the point).

If we don't model moral behavior with regard to our comments regarding Republicans, for example, how the heck can we reasonably expect them to learn such moral behavior from our example?

I lead a small group ministry circle, for our church, and one of our members is most distinctly Republican with regard to his perspective on business, and I'm very firmly a moderate, taking the Republican position half the time, and taking the Democratic position half the time. There are other (fiscal) conservatives in our congregation, absolutely.

What you won't find in our congregation are bigots and other folks who exhibit intolerance for the beliefs and values of others, including but not limited to, sexual orientation. One of the most-repeated (even by UUs) mischaracterization of UUs is that UU says that can believe whatever you want -- nothing can be further from the truth. UU holds firmly to the seven principles I've been alluding to throughout this reply.
 
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Karl R

Active Member
I did wonder, do these people consider themselves so enlightened that they put themselves above God?
How would someone put themself "above god"?

I don't presume to understand god. God might not exist. I believe that god exists, but I don't presume that reality conforms itself to my beliefs. (If it did, then I would be god.)

Another thing - in the LDS church hardly any women talk to me. At this church lots of women talked to me. They might have been lesbians but they did talk to me. I'm not sure what to make of that.
I'm not sure what to make of women not talking to you at the LDS church. Do the women not talk to men in general, or do the avoid you in particular?

They were nice to me and that's something I want.
In general, that's something everyone wants. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

the talk/sermon was a political talk against fake patriots and George Bush. I'm all for talks like that but not really on Sundays. I was wanting to hear more about God/religion.
In my church, the sermon is rarely political. Next week might be considerably different. If that church tends to be more political than you like, other UU churches in your area may be more inclined to discuss god/religion more frequently.

So who do atheists go to the U.U. church? I told my sister it's because the church preaches peace and enlightenment.
That answer will vary from one atheist to the next.

Some of them want to raise their children in a church environment, but they don't want to attend a church that doesn't ask them to believe in things they find preposterous.

There are many other reasons, but your best bet is to ask a few atheists.

UU holds firmly to the seven principles
Do we? We vote on them periodically as a denomination. The wording gets changed every so often due to those votes.
 
I didn't mean any offence to you UU members. I liked how I was treated. I will probably go back in a few weeks. Maybe this Sunday. The pastor is only part time. She shows up every other Sunday, so I'm told. Maybe I'll email her and ask her more about the church.
 
I emailed the pastor. She's part time. I asked her about the talks and she said her talks are more spiritual because that's her training. She said this Sunday the talk is going to be earth based, largely Native American. Oh baby, I would not mind hearing that.
 

MSizer

MSizer
I have some very limited experience with UU's. I did a presentation once for a UU congregation. I can't even remember now what the topic was, but it would have been related to morality (all of my talks are). There was a psychology professor there (well several actually) but anyway, this one psychology professor had been raised a Baptist, but like all of his peers, he abandoned the mythology associated with christianity. He missed the community and ritual though that he had known as a kid at church, so now he goes to a UU church to be with like minded people. He says he wants his kids to be exposed to the UU community so that they have the opportunity to experience the various benefits of religion without the mythology or indoctrination. He mentioned that almost all of his colleauges are atheists and don't understand why he goes to church. I'm probably more like his colleaugues in that I can't stand rituals. I get community from an atheist social group.
 

bicker

Unitarian Universalist
A pretty significant number of folks in our church would identify themselves as UUs and Christians. Of course, the vast majority of Christians wouldn't identify those folks as Christians. ;) But that's a reflection of the fact that most Christians cannot tolerate among them the belief that perhaps Jesus wasn't divine.
 
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