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Foam On - Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity?

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity? In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen. Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution. Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity? In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen. Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution. Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.
errr....

Are you sure?

Northern Ireland
Crusades
Catholic child abuse
The Inquisition
Support of Slavery
Antisemitism

Need I go on?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity? In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen. Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution. Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.

.sorry, i cannot agree with you. Over the centuries Christianity has brough considerable pain and death, and in some parts of the world it still does.

You will slso note that, taking America as an example the bible belt states show the highest incidence of teen pregnancy, stds, abortion and divorce.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity? In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen. Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution. Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.
Secular Humanism.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity? In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen. Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution. Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.
How come this kind of stuff always starts out sounding good and completely botches it up at the end?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
errr....

Are you sure?

Northern Ireland
Crusades
Catholic child abuse
The Inquisition
Support of Slavery
Antisemitism

Need I go on?
Think of all the accumulated death and destruction all the abrahamic religions have unleashed on the world in an unholy trinity?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I cannot agree on your charity claim either. First off,the top donators are not christian.
Next, although Christian charity's actually collect slightly more donations than non christian charities. A good proportion of that money goes to the church and not the charity it was collected for. Take actual moneys that is used to help those in need and you will find non christian charities have the edge
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Northern Ireland

Of interest, the IRA was (still is) a Catholic organisation with church backing, (although they do now let terrorists from other faiths in). It was majority funded during the troubles by American Catholics via the NORAID charity organisation.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
I cannot agree on your charity claim either. First off,the top donators are not christian.
Next, although Christian charity's actually collect slightly more donations than non christian charities. A good proportion of that money goes to the church and not the charity it was collected for. Take actual moneys that is used to help those in need and you will find non christian charities have the edge
Most charities would not even exist if they hadn't started as Christian organizations.
Take something like mercy ships, or the orgs that bring water to people around the world. It's hard to measure the good they do. But most of the old established charities started as christian organizations too
 

AlexanderG

Active Member
Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.

Well, let's break these claims down:

1. Peace: History is littered with denominational Christian wars, torture, witch burnings, crusades, etc. I see no relation.
2. Prosperity: The poorest nations in the world are the most Christian or religious, and the most wealthy are the most secular. Jesus said to give away all your possessions in order to achieve salvation.
3. Health: JW's refuse blood transfusions, the most religious people in the US are currently refusing vaccinations, and again, the healthiest nations in the world are also the most secular.
4. Freedom: What? The Bible allows slavery. The tenets of Christianity hold that we all will be tortured unless we obey and praise a powerful being. Many Christians refer to themselves as "slaves of god." I don't understand how this is freedom.
5. Strong families: I don't consider a family with a subservient wife to be "strong." I don't consider families that disown their gay children "strong." I don't consider families that discipline children with physical violence to be "strong." As has been previously stated, teen pregnancy/birth and divorce rates are highest in the most religious states in the US, and I believe this trend plays out among the nations of the world.
6. Charity for the needy: Who knows? Religious charities are not required to open their books for outside scrutiny, so there is no way to verify how much money goes to the charitable cause, versus administrative costs and bonuses for the boards of directors. And donations spent on converting new people to Christianity is not charity.
7. Educational opportunity: I have heard from Christian women who were pressured to marry instead of going to college. Christian education teaches "facts" that are observably, demonstrable false, and such graduates are distinctly unqualified for a range of professions. Abstinence-only education is a provably ineffective, dangerous, and misleading curriculum. Professors at Christian colleges sign statements of faith that forbid them from publishing ideas outside a set of preapproved religious conclusions, on threat of being fired.
8. Elevation of the dignity of all people: Is this satire? Christianity elevates people? While it claims we are all depraved, dirty humans who deserve infinite suffering by default because of our natural thoughts and desires?

Most forms of Christianity sound like living as an battered spouse. The lifestyle to me sounds like one of fear, shame, guilt, and constant self-doubt and self-recrimination, all while living under a threat of extreme violence that you're told is a punishment that will be your own fault. It encourages people to view others judgmentally, to separate "us" and "them" with the brightest line possible, and it devalues our one human life we each know we have in favor of a hypothetical eternal life later on.

Secular humanism has no dogma. It simply acknowledges that we as humans value ourselves and each other. It is open to any reliable method that can advance the goal of human wellbeing and human flourishing. It is absolutely superior to Christianity in every way, and the data we glean from reality confirms this.
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Secular Humanism. Hands down. The sexual revolution was, mostly, a good thing. if it was done more in line with Humanist ideals, it would have been much better.

Marxism, in the form of communism, has been a horrid mess. But in the form of socialism, it has done some good in western Europe. Such things as the 40 hour work week and the idea that workers can organize to form collective bargaining are ultimately socialistic, as is the idea that workers should be paid a living wage. But I support all of those ideas (even if the practice often doesn't live up to the goal)

Christianity has promoted slavery, bigotry, and the suppression of women. It has also fought against the rise of science, and our continuing question for more knowledge. While it does have a lot of charitable aspects, those are usually piggybacked on preaching and the desire to get more members in the church.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Most charities would not even exist if they hadn't started as Christian organizations.
Take something like mercy ships, or the orgs that bring water to people around the world. It's hard to measure the good they do. But most of the old established charities started as christian organizations too

And the reason for that is that christianity was more or less ubiquitous through the west, often on pain of death.

However, there are very few secular charities that started as christian organisations, i am not sure could count those that were on the fingers of one finger.

Not sure i would be citing mercy ships with the scandals attached to them
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity?
I see Mr Trump's capitalism doesn't get a mention. Are we to assume everyone agrees that's pernicious?
In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen.
The only communist governments left are Vietnam, Laos, North Korea and Cuba. Chinese "communism" is unrecognizable as Marxism.
Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution.
No, advances in medicine did that, giving women control of their own reproduction.
Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.
I take it you're opposed to letting women take command of their own sex lives and reproducing? After all, nothing stops people from going to church if they want to, and nothing stops them not going if they don't want to.
Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.
Except of course modern Western governments, all of whom to some degree provide free public education, public housing, unemployment relief, age pensions, health cover, and a variety of etceteras regardless of views regarding religion. Their expenditure on these hugely outstrips that of churches.

I'm not denigrating the charitable work done by believers, but I point out that overall, more of it goes to their own than to 'others'.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity? In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen. Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution. Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.
This can be said of any ideology. When people act in accord with it, it works. Communism is not the philosophy of Marx. Socialism and Communism are two different animals. It's a bastardization of it, just like modern Evangelical Christianity is a bastardization of the teachings of Jesus. Trump is God's man? Really?
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity? In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen. Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution. Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.
Christianity.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Killing gays, killing witches, killing apostates, killing rebellious kids, killing those who wirk on the Sabbath, killing women who aren't virgins on their wedding night, keep slaves, keep sex slaves, women are unclean on their period and after giving birth, when god is followed things get so violent that when sends people on warpath not cattle are safe nor are the unborn as they are commanded to be ripped from the womb.
It seems to reflect the reality that Christians make up most of those having abortions.
Characteristics of U.S. Abortion Patients in 2014 and Changes Since 2008
Many abortion patients reported a religious affiliation—24% were Catholic, 17% were mainline Protestant, 13% were evangelical Protestant and 8% identified with some other religion. Thirty-eight percent of patients had no religious affiliation.
And with the ritual for when leprosy is cured to sling birds blood everywhere, yeah, we'll just leave the Bible in the past where it belongs.
 
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