follow up question: do WE have spines?

[ScottySatan]

A big gangster in a bar repeatedly insults you, and finally spills his drink on you. You ask him to stop. He says "No, what are you going to do about it". Well, what are you going to do about it?

We were all quick to critique our society in the previous post, but are we different? I mean WE personally.

What do WE do in the face of conflict? What do we do when we disagree with the powers over us?

I'm willing to be the first and say "usually nothing, because I can't do anything about it". I think WE personally, are mostly powerless.

I've heard so many LHP people say (everywhere, not just here), they don't seek revenge, they are spiritually above it. I've heard so many people say they trained themselves to not be spiritually or emotionally affected by the material injustice that happens to them. I've heard everyone ranging from fundamentalist sociopathic LaVeyans to crack-pot anti-jesus-uns make the same claim. It's a thing all those people, including US say, I think, to save face. It's an excuse, because WE really can't to a tangible thing about injustice against us.

I believe you all really would extract revenge or force someone to stop insulting or harming you if you could. I would. But we can't. We don't have the power.

I non-humbly suggest that we cut the crap, and discuss how to exercise power over others when it greatly concerns ourselves, instead of making false excuses about how we don't want to. There are obviously people out there who are powerful enough to do this stuff. How can we be more like them?

 

[Adramelek]

The OP makes a good point. I cannot be the only one here who has ever utilized Magic to exact revenge sometime in their life. And don't talk to me about this white magic nonsense of karma or "it will come back to you three-fold". Sure ethics are important, but please don't confuse ethics with superstition.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[nash8]

The OP makes a good point. I cannot be the only one here who has ever utilized Magic to exact revenge sometime in their life. And don't talk to me about this white magic nonsense of karma or "it will come back to you three-fold". Sure ethics are important, but please don't confuse ethics with superstition.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

So you believe in the power of Magic to exact revenge on someone, but not that it can come back to negatively affect you? Interesting to say the least.

As to the OP, why would you seek to become like someone who oppresses you? Why use not use the powers of the oppressers to fight them, rather than continue the cycle of oppressing others?

I'm down with fighting against someone who conciously uses their power to oppress the innocent, but using my power to oppress someone who is innocent, or even committed a crime towards me out of ignorance, not so much.

As far to how the people in power have gained their power. Thousands of years of amassing it. Where you and I have come into our conscious realization of our self-power in this lifetime. The elite came into this knowledge at the beginning of civilization and have been amassing and storing this power ever since.

The only chance we have to fight them is to use the massive power of the entire population, otherwise were screwed. No one ordinary person can beat Mike Tyson, but 100 people would take him down no problem. Or you can choose to oppress ignorant people and be in the same situation that you are now, except you get the joy of oppressing dumb people.

 

[nash8]

Not saying that it's right to take revenge on someone, but as long as the revenge does not exceed the harm caused by the original incident, then you are in a sense balancing things, and balance is never a bad thing.

With that being said, I would definitely be careful in your opinion of what balance actually is.

 

[Orias]

I wouldn't do anything. But then I would follow his ride home, and after waiting a few hours I would dent the hood of his car and then take a ***** in it. :bat:

Aside from that I don't really think anyone would put themselves in a position for that to happen, unless it happens then well..I would say the reaction completely depends on one's spine (regardless of how the individual reacts).

 

[Adramelek]

The only chance we have to fight them is to use the massive power of the entire population, otherwise were screwed. No one ordinary person can beat Mike Tyson, but 100 people would take him down no problem. Or you can choose to oppress ignorant people and be in the same situation that you are now, except you get the joy of oppressing dumb people.

This reminds me of something I once read in the ToS newsletter "The Scroll of Set":

"How many Setians does it take to change a light bulb? Just one. It takes a thousand to change the world."

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Erebus]

Honestly my first thought when I read the OP was "pick your battles". Inevitably you're going to get into conflicts and I'd be shocked if there was anybody here who has never been in a physical fight.
However, sometimes it's not worth getting into a conflict just to protect your damaged ego. In the example you gave, that sounds like a great opportunity for both yourself and the idiot to get pasted by four or five bouncers. What's that going to prove? That you know how to punch somebody? Not exactly impressive. I said it in the revenge thread and I'll repeat it here: Use your wits, not your fists.
Belittle the guy, embarrass him, make him feel like an idiot. Or act the bigger person, show people how low and petty the other guy is and how he's not worth your time. People like that want to fight, they have something to prove and can't stand to be made fun of.
Of course if somebody hits you all bets are off IMO, but it's rare that somebody will actually go that far if you learn to speak to them like they're dirt on your boots.

I'll also admit that I hate fighting. I'm not afraid to fight, I've never once run from somebody during a fight. This is exactly why I hate it, I don't stop once I start no matter how badly hurt I, or the other person might get. With this in mind it's sensible to avoid it coming to that.

There are obviously people out there who are powerful enough to do this stuff. How can we be more like them?

Is that power? Any idiot can act like an entitled **** and throw themselves around like a baboon during the mating season. Real power is the ability to influence people, to make the hulking ape feel small and stupid and to make yourself into the hero in the situation.
I've had a bouncer come over to my house threatening to burn it down because one of the people I lived with had insulted his girlfriend. He wanted to intimidate us and to show how powerful he is. I've never seen him since. What I did was get him to share his name, where he lived, where he worked and who his family were because he was too stupid not to tell me. Then I asked his girlfriend to verify that he was telling the truth and promised her that "I wasn't planning on anything bad happening to him."
I told the truth. I didn't intend to do anything to him, but just saying that gave him, his girlfriend and his friends the impression that he'd just threatened somebody who had calmly extracted every bit of information needed to have him and his family beaten up, robbed or killed. Like I say, for all his threats I never saw him again.

 

[Adramelek]

Sometimes drastic situations call for drastic measures. I remember in the late 1990's I had a boss who just was not cut out for his management position. He would regularly take the pressures and stress of his job out on those in the department he was supervisor of. Well, after about a year of this abusive nonsense I decided to place a magical curse upon him to where I would be rid of him in my life. I loved my job, it paid good and I was not about to let this ashole make me quit. After doing the initial Greater Magical Working I informed three of my co-workers, who were aware and sympathetic of my "occult" background, of what I did and they asked if there was anything they could do to help. Come to find out all three had close ties with the HR department. Not long after that Mr. Boss' life became even more of a living hell at work, and eventually he suffered a nervous breakdown and decided to transfer to another department in the company far removed from any management position and from us. Just after receiving word that Mr. Boss was leaving the department I could swear that I heard the theme of Beethoven's "Ode to Joy".

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Quintessence]

Personally, I don't see the person in this hypothetical situation as powerless at all. Where's my power? I actively avoid conflicts in the first place by not socializing with people who are $#@%'s, and also by not being a $#@% myself through holding to a personal code of honor and virtue. You would never catch me dead in a bar in the first place; I avoid establishments where crudery and stupidity are commonplace. Even if it wasn't a bar, but say, a local coffee shop, I'd inform the establishment that there is some intolerable rudery going on by one of their patrons and that they should probably throw him out. We have laws in this country regarding harassment, you know. I am more than happy to invoke them on people who decide to be $#@% hats.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Usually, I end up thinking I'm tougher than I really turn out to be. I don't believe revenge is evil or anything though.

 

[1137]

I don't hide how I feel in situations, but I also have a strong sense of self preservation. I walk away from the gangster knowing he's compensating in numerous ways.

 

[Quintessence]

I don't hide how I feel in situations, but I also have a strong sense of self preservation. I walk away from the gangster knowing he's compensating in numerous ways.

What if he's not?

I ask this because I think we have a tendency to put down other people in order to stick ourselves on a pedestal.

"Oh, they're just acting that way because they have their own personal problems."

That may be true, but should we be using that kind of thinking to rationalize stroking our own egos and posturing all superior-like?

Just somethin' to think about.

 

[1137]

What if he's not?

I ask this because I think we have a tendency to put down other people in order to stick ourselves on a pedestal.

"Oh, they're just acting that way because they have their own personal problems."

That may be true, but should we be using that kind of thinking to rationalize stroking our own egos and posturing all superior-like?

Just somethin' to think about.

Solid point. Small dick or not he'll kill me though.

 

[Erebus]

What if he's not?

I ask this because I think we have a tendency to put down other people in order to stick ourselves on a pedestal.

"Oh, they're just acting that way because they have their own personal problems."

That may be true, but should we be using that kind of thinking to rationalize stroking our own egos and posturing all superior-like?

Just somethin' to think about.

Interesting question. I honestly can't think of any reason to act that way other than intoxication or (what I would consider) a character flaw though. Might not be that they're necessarily looking to make up for something though. They might just genuinely be obnoxious <insert crude word of your choice>
It's worth pondering, but asking "what makes people unpleasant" is something that far greater minds than myself have been wondering for millennia.

 

[nash8]

This reminds me of something I once read in the ToS newsletter "The Scroll of Set":

"How many Setians does it take to change a light bulb? Just one. It takes a thousand to change the world."

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

It's funny, I've never really trekked into much LHP philosphy until pretty recently. But everyday I realize how many of my beliefs are intertwined with LHP philosphy without ever even realizing it. I guess I'm more ambidexterous than I had originally thought lol.

What I did was get him to share his name, where he lived, where he worked and who his family were because he was too stupid not to tell me. Then I asked his girlfriend to verify that he was telling the truth and promised her that "I wasn't planning on anything bad happening to him."
I told the truth. I didn't intend to do anything to him, but just saying that gave him, his girlfriend and his friends the impression that he'd just threatened somebody who had calmly extracted every bit of information needed to have him and his family beaten up, robbed or killed. Like I say, for all his threats I never saw him again.

LOL that's awesome, you my friend, are the definition of a :ninja:

 

[Luke Morningstar]

A big gangster in a bar repeatedly insults you, and finally spills his drink on you. You ask him to stop. He says "No, what are you going to do about it". Well, what are you going to do about it?

What do WE do in the face of conflict? What do we do when we disagree with the powers over us?

Okay, so these are two different questions. The example is not a conflict. It's a threatening situation. I will gain nothing by engaging with his desire to fight. I would walk away if I didn't have the courage to give him a leveling conversation before taking a beating.

But I'll tell you what I do in the face of conflict. I write articles. I write emails to executives and leaders in places I work. I make sure I'm safe, then I make sure anyone with me is safe, then I make sure no one else is in danger. I protect those I can. I lay my throat on the table and hand the knife to my tormentor, and I dare them to cut my throat.

I prove who I am by when I decide to stake my reputation on, and give as much power I can over*, daring them to prove who they really are.

*Often this isn't very much. But I'm exercising the muscle.

 

[Orias]

This thread reminds me of a guy I train with, he outranks me by two stripes in BJJ, yet every time we roll I make him look and feel like a little kid. He doesn't have a clue of what it means to be a martial artist, yet he insists that his good speaking skills (and his good money throwing skills) will get him to the top. All of the private lessons in the world won't pay off if you don't have the balls to shut your mouth for once and roll and spar with someone who will kick your @$$. Every time I walk in the building this kids face is just overcome with dread, I see it drop right away.

It discourages me a little to show up there knowing that this kid is there all of the time, talking all of the time, trying to get people on "his side" all of the time. But I practice with a smile on my face, because I realize I don't need to be a puppet, a tool, as an excuse to get on people's good sides. Smart and competent people can observe talent and skill, without ever really having the need to compensate for their lack of feeling special (i.e hanging around a flatterer, or brown noser).

These people can just jump off a cliff, and they can take their vertebra with them.