Followers of non-violence. What should the focus be on at this time?

[sandandfoam]

(i) Are there any who believe in non-violence here?

(ii) The wars in Iraq/Afghanistan
Nuclear weapons
Gun ownership
Gaza

There's so much violence going on - where to start?
What should be the focus at this time?

 

[Aquitaine]

(i) Are there any who believe in non-violence here?

(ii) The wars in Iraq/Afghanistan
Nuclear weapons
Gun ownership
Gaza

There's so much violence going on - where to start?
What should be the focus at this time?

Meh..... I dunno. A lot of the time I just tend to think there's too much of it going on, for any real meaningfull change to be possible. I guess maybe it's just Humanity for ya?

 

[LuisDantas]

(i) Are there any who believe in non-violence here?

Of course. As a permanent goal if nothing else.

(ii) The wars in Iraq/Afghanistan
Nuclear weapons
Gun ownership
Gaza

There's so much violence going on - where to start?
What should be the focus at this time?

Social causes. Violence is the direct result of frustration, and it will endure as long as we allow it to.

There are some very sound principles in the counter-insurgency strategy adopted by the US Armed Forces in the Middle East. But foreign military are hardly the best people for applying them, particularly among a people who are predisposed to distrust them. Besides, to some degree the approach has been attempting to build things from the top down.

The way to make things REALLY work is by dissolving territorial boundaries with acts of good will. National frontiers will need to be de-emphasized, major, serious and permanent economical and educational aid should be established, people should demand less military and more constructive action from their own political leaders.

That may be too much to expect from current political wisdom, but it is the way to go.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It would be most beneficial if people started with themselves.

 

[sandandfoam]

It would be most beneficial if people started with themselves.

With regard to those who follow non-violence, how do you mean?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

With regard to those who follow non-violence, how do you mean?

I guess I'm speaking more of those that would claim non-violence, ideologically, yet still do things like hit their spouse or kids. I don't know how many this applies to, but I've seen enough ideological hypocrisy in this regard to indicate that it's not rare.

 

[sandandfoam]

I guess I'm speaking more of those that would claim non-violence, ideologically, yet still do things like hit their spouse or kids. I don't know how many this applies to, but I've seen enough ideological hypocrisy in this regard to indicate that it's not rare.

Your point is a good one.

 

[sandandfoam]

I guess I'm speaking more of those that would claim non-violence, ideologically, yet still do things like hit their spouse or kids. I don't know how many this applies to, but I've seen enough ideological hypocrisy in this regard to indicate that it's not rare.

It is also worth pointing out that one need not be a perfect human being to reject violence.
Certainly nonviolence should begin at home - good point.
The cariacature of many non-violent as spousal abusers is for discussion elsewhere,

 

[Smoke]

(i) Are there any who believe in non-violence here?

(ii) The wars in Iraq/Afghanistan
Nuclear weapons
Gun ownership
Gaza

There's so much violence going on - where to start?
What should be the focus at this time?

I'd suggest Gaza. After you have taught Hamas to be non-violent, you will have acquired the skill to handle the rest with ease.

 

[Peacewise]

(i) Are there any who believe in non-violence here?

(ii) The wars in Iraq/Afghanistan
Nuclear weapons
Gun ownership
Gaza

There's so much violence going on - where to start?
What should be the focus at this time?

I am a non violent practicer and follow principled non violence to the best of my ability.

As for the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan, I think both wars are unnecessary and will result in more violence than the wars themselves.
Nuclear weapons - remove all of them, immediately.
Gun ownership - remove all of them, immediately.
Gaza, a good cricket club here in South Aust...
Don't follow the strip of Gaza much at all.

Where to start with non violence is within one's mind and speech and then continue being non violent in ones actions. From there creating community and groups of non violent practicer's and then move to non violent states and nations.
The focus at this time should be on whatever non violent actions each of us can achieve and recognizing the worth in other peoples non violent actions. If all one can do is to be physically non violent then so be it, that is worthwhile.

Most people are able to be physically non violent (strategic non violence), that is pretty easy in fact, where many people fall down is in their violence of speech and thought, and their incorrect belief that simply not hitting someone is all there is to non violence.

I started with reading Gandhi's autobiography. Moved onto some parts of the Bible (proverbs), some readings on the Dalami lama's website, working with children for sports coaching, and progressed into studying non violence on the free academic earth website. I expanded into psychology to understand people's needs. I have found that the principled non violent way is incredibly worthwhile when working with children.

Overview: Strategic and Principled Nonviolence I | Berkeley History Lecture

To the forummers who which to develop their non violent skills I would suggest studying that lecture series at the above link and seek to practice principled non violence on these forums and in their life.

 

[Revoltingest]

(i) Are there any who believe in non-violence here?

There's so much violence going on - where to start?
What should be the focus at this time?

I'm a non-aggressionist, which is pretty non-violent.
We tolerate too much violence in areas where we can legally exercise more control, eg, prisons, schools, police, churches.
To look the other way is to condone.

 

[Caladan]

How is it possible that 'Gaza' is starring with a death toll of perhaps 10,000 in the duration of two decades or more, while Darfur with a death toll of hundreds of thousands and millions of refugees in an Inter-Muslim conflict is simply left out.
hell the numbers of casualties in the Mexican drug wars are more than double the casualties in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, not to mention that the war in North-West Pakistan is more than triple in number of casualties.

 

[Smoke]

How is it possible that 'Gaza' is starring with a death toll of perhaps 10,000 in the duration of two decades or more, while Darfur with a death toll of hundreds of thousands and millions of refugees in an Inter-Muslim conflict is simply left out.

That's an excellent question.

 

[Panda]

How is it possible that 'Gaza' is starring with a death toll of perhaps 10,000 in the duration of two decades or more, while Darfur with a death toll of hundreds of thousands and millions of refugees in an Inter-Muslim conflict is simply left out.
hell the numbers of casualties in the Mexican drug wars are more than double the casualties in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, not to mention that the war in North-West Pakistan is more than triple in number of casualties.

Because the media don't always bang on about Darfur and I bet an awful lot of people have never even heard of Darfur.

 

[sandandfoam]

How is it possible that 'Gaza' is starring with a death toll of perhaps 10,000 in the duration of two decades or more, while Darfur with a death toll of hundreds of thousands and millions of refugees in an Inter-Muslim conflict is simply left out.
hell the numbers of casualties in the Mexican drug wars are more than double the casualties in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, not to mention that the war in North-West Pakistan is more than triple in number of casualties.

My mistake.

 

[sandandfoam]

Overview: Strategic and Principled Nonviolence I | Berkeley History Lecture

To the forummers who which to develop their non violent skills I would suggest studying that lecture series at the above link and seek to practice principled non violence on these forums and in their life.

Great Link

 

[Reverend Rick]

How is it possible that 'Gaza' is starring with a death toll of perhaps 10,000 in the duration of two decades or more, while Darfur with a death toll of hundreds of thousands and millions of refugees in an Inter-Muslim conflict is simply left out.
hell the numbers of casualties in the Mexican drug wars are more than double the casualties in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, not to mention that the war in North-West Pakistan is more than triple in number of casualties.

Could it be, (and I am not pointing the finger at anyone here :no that the reason why the spotlight is on some and not others is because of underlying prejudice?

Hundreds of thousands of dead black people may be a good thing to some folks.

Now before someone goes off here, think about it. Does the media ever even mention Haiti any more? I'm sure those folks still need help.

New Orleans was really no different. If a disaster hit California or Maine the response would have been different IMHO. Israeli-Palestinian conflict? I believe the anti-Semitism is obvious. :yes:

 

[Caladan]

Hundreds of thousands of dead black people may be a good thing to some folks.

By no means do I imply that anyone in this thread is a racist. but I believe you hit a very strong point. black people dying by the millions is business as usual in Africa, while Israelis preventing rocket attacks and suicide bombings of their civilians who aspire to live in a modern democratic state by 'martyrs' or rather worshipers of death as it were, simply does not sit well with people who for some ironic reason expect Israelis to be held to Cherubic standards, because what, 'we should know better'?
I don't know, but when you live in a region where a dictator can decide one morning to wipe out a village populated by his own citizens, turning the other cheek, doesn't cut it, jingoism or not.

 

[DarkSun]

(i) Are there any who believe in non-violence here?

(ii) The wars in Iraq/Afghanistan
Nuclear weapons
Gun ownership
Gaza

There's so much violence going on - where to start?
What should be the focus at this time?

I fully support pacifism, but I also support one's right to defend themself. The only way I can ever see pacifism working is if no one initiates conflict to begin with. But that said, because of the way human nature is, I simply can't imagine the current state of affairs ever changing. Not unless people first change themselves. And as if that's going to happen.

 

[sandandfoam]

I fully support pacifism, but I also support one's right to defend themself. The only way I can ever see pacifism working is if no one initiates conflict to begin with. But that said, because of the way human nature is, I simply can't imagine the current state of affairs ever changing. Not unless people first change themselves. And as if that's going to happen.

With respect DarkSun, I posted in 'Same Faiths' to discuss non-violence with those already convinced of it's efficacy.
I could debate with you how Ghandi and others took on the British empire using non violence and won, I could also cite other times non-violence has been used to great effect - but somewhere else please