Followers of "old gods" - how recon are you?

[vaguelyhumanoid]

OK, I've got a question for the polytheist pagans on this forum (Asatru, Kemetic, Hellenismos, etc): How reconstructionist is your practice? There are varying degrees of adherence to historically-verified practice in the polytheist pagan community. For instance, a reconstructionist Ásatrúar (using the example I know best) would only worship deities proven to have historical cults, would base their practice off a specific country or region and closely follow the latest archaeological and philological findings. A really hardcore recon might hold blóts in which animals are sacrificed and eaten (which also occurs in some living traditions like Santeria). On the other side of the spectrum, a non-recon Ásatruar might borrow rituals, symbols and holidays from ceremonial magic, Wicca and other non-reconstructionist traditions and would likely borrow gods, lore and vocabulary from all across the Germanic-speaking world.

Personally, I would call myself a revivalist (mostly Norse to be specific). I try and stay historically informed when it comes to lore, the dates of holidays etc. and try not to mix unrelated traditions too much. I don't have any super unusual UPG and I try to stay grounded in mythological sources. At the same time, I practice runic divination (which wasn't historically attested in its modern form) and gravitate towards some deities that weren't talked about as being worshipped very much historically (such as Loki, Ægir and Jörð).

 

[1137]

I'm interested in myth, symbolism, and spirituality, not history per say.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm also more of a revivalist than a reconstructionist. I feel like trying to stay "historical" is better for reenactments, since the information we have was about rituals that were informed by their particular regions and time periods, and may not have been ubiquitous throughout either.

Instead, I prefer to follow the spirit of how our cultural ancestors likely behaved, and incorporate more modern stuff, including some of my personal insights, into the older traditions.to suit the times. For example, I have a large connection with the idea of the Four Elements, as well as the Phoenix; neither of which, to my knowledge, have clear cognates within wider traditional Germanic Lore. I'm also perfectly willing to take inspiration from things that have nothing to do with traditional Lore, such as from Majora's Mask (obviously) or Persona 4.

Knowing the historical practices, however, can help inform how I incorporate these more modern (or not modern but also not really Germanic) elements. History serves as the baseline, but not the be-all-end-all.

 

[Sees]

Similar to you folks...revivalism more so.

I trust in my gut and inspiration strongly and have many times seen how people simultaneously reach remarkably similar UPG. Strictly-structured reconstructionism doesn't fit the overall spirit of the traditions to me. These religions are more like a language of the people's soul with specific stories, ritual steps, etc. being a traditional song of that language.

We can create and be ever-evolving and fluid while still honoring and learning from the past to the fullest. Without time-travel, it's pretty much how it has to be anyways

 

[Quintessence]

I'm a polytheist, and don't seem to fit into either of these categories laid out here. Definitely not a reconstructionist, and I have no interest in being one. Also not a revivalist, because the gods I worship don't conform to historical Pagan assemblies or identities. There are a few exceptions here and there - there's a smattering of Hellenism in my path, but only a smattering. There may be a time in the future when that develops further, but it is not a current phenomena. I'm just literally a nature-worshipper. I worship various aspects of reality as they are, without anthropomorphic stuff, or special names. And since Sun Spirit is quite obviously not the same as Moon Spirit, and Moon Spirit is quite obviously not the same as Storm Spirit (and so forth and so on), I'm a polytheist. If I want to honor various historical Pagan deities, I can. I sometimes do. Not particularly often. Just not my thing. It does mean if I went to some religious service from any reconstructionist group, though, I'd happily join in with whatever they're doing.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I don't know, sort of but not really?

I use classical sources to gain insights about the gods but I don't tailor my practises or perceptions around what the ancients thought. If they fit together then they fit together and it's really not intended.

 

[Jainarayan]

For instance, a reconstructionist Ásatrúar (using the example I know best) would only worship deities proven to have historical cults, would base their practice off a specific country or region and closely follow the latest archaeological and philological findings. A really hardcore recon might hold blóts in which animals are sacrificed and eaten

This is a bit simplistic. Ásatrúar fall into a number of categories:

Those who adhere to only that which is found in archaeological and verifiable historical sources. They may not even place much emphasis on the Lore, because much of it was written down after the Viking Age, and often with a Christian flavor. These people place less emphasis on the gods than they do on ancestors and wights. The feeling is that the gods are so far above us they really have no interest in our day-to-day affairs. It's the ancestors and wights we turn to for day-to-day needs.

Yet they may or may not be so orthodox as to practice animal sacrifice. It's often not practical, so an already-butchered animal (pork shoulder, beef roast) may be substituted. Community and tribal thew (custom, practice), innangard and utangard (inner circle, outer circle) are extremely important and take high priority. This is based on historical and archaeological evidence. "The man is the clan, and the clan is the man".

People in the middle, sort of like me who place more emphasis on the gods. I don't feel a close connection to my ancestors, who for this purpose only reach back 3 generations. I did not know my great-grandparents, hardly knew my maternal grandparents, did not know my paternal grandparents at all, and didn't have the warmest or sweetest relationship with my parent (nevertheless, I have an ancestors' shrine).

Technically, one's family, even though they are not Heathen, are one's tribe. Even solo practitioners (like me), when we blót do so as representatives of our (non-Heathen) families and communities. No one stands alone. I have a good amount of UPG in my practice and beliefs. My attitude is that the archaeological and historical record is far from complete. If I am not mistaken, and someone can correct me, most of the history we know was written down after the Viking Age. Snorri, Adam of Bremen and Saxo Grammaticus all lived and wrote after 1000 - 1100 CE. Moreover, customs, rituals, practices, even gods worshiped, varied from community to community, tribe to tribe, region to region.

My thinking is that the texts we have are not unlike the gospels that were written 70 - 100 years after Jesus's death, by people who probably never met him. Not to say they are inaccurate but I think there is a lot missing. We know how communities worshiped the gods but we don't know how individuals or individual families worshiped and interacted with the gods. To that end, I make small votive offerings - incense, candles, flowers - that are not considered a blót, though I do make libation blóts.

On the other side of the spectrum, a non-recon Ásatruar might borrow rituals, symbols and holidays from ceremonial magic,

That's something derisively called Wiccatrú, Norse Neo-Paganism, Eclectic Norse Neo-Paganism, or by some such derogatory label, especially when non-Germanic deities and practices are included. I make no judgement on it, because people are free to worship as they see fit. But most of that is seen as MUS ("Made Up Stuff", but "stuff" is not the word usually used). It's far beyond UPG (Unverified/unsubstantiated (-able) Personal Gnosis).

Personally, I would call myself a revivalist (mostly Norse to be specific). I try and stay historically informed when it comes to lore, the dates of holidays etc. and try not to mix unrelated traditions too much. I don't have any super unusual UPG and I try to stay grounded in mythological sources.

When all is said and done, I consider myself this category with the same practices and beliefs.

 

[Jainarayan]

Strictly-structured reconstructionism doesn't fit the overall spirit of the traditions to me.

Strict reconstructionism to me is LARPing.

These religions are more like a language of the people's soul with specific stories, ritual steps, etc. being a traditional song of that language.

And every language is spoken in a dialect and with an individual accent.

 

[Rapha]

Brigit and Cronus...

 

[Mindmaster]

I don't make efforts to read the lore too much unless divination leads me that way. I've wasted a lot of time reading useless garbage. Also, I think that pure reconstruction is just playing pretend and pantomiming. The valuable part -- the WHY people do such things is often left off the account. The
WHY is the important part.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

As the local Hellenist, I'm firmly reconstructionist. I always feel that once you start tinkering, you're on the road to new-agery and fakelore. Of course, I'm lucky: Hellenic and Egyptian religion are the best documented ancient Paganisms. In fact, it's easier to get information on ancient Greek practices than on modern Chinese ones. On the other hand, I don't have much time for the "dressing-up types" -- this is religion, not a re-enactment society. I may use authentic Greek hymns and prayers, but I do it in English wearing my usual clothes.

 

[Riverwolf]

As the local Hellenist, I'm firmly reconstructionist. I always feel that once you start tinkering, you're on the road to new-agery and fakelore. Of course, I'm lucky: Hellenic and Egyptian religion are the best documented ancient Paganisms. In fact, it's easier to get information on ancient Greek practices than on modern Chinese ones. On the other hand, I don't have much time for the "dressing-up types" -- this is religion, not a re-enactment society. I may use authentic Greek hymns and prayers, but I do it in English wearing my usual clothes.

Recon Hellenism, Kemeticism, and Religio Romana definitely seems to make a lot more sense, simply because of how much has survived. There's more than enough information to have a fully-fledged religion that the pre-Christian (pre-Muslim in Egypt's case) people from these regions would most likely find familiar.

It's just not like that with the pre-Christian traditions of Celtic/Germanic-speaking people. We often have to risk that road to New Age/"fakelore" stuff just to build something cohesive, simply because so much has been lost. But I'm more okay with that; living religions are always in a state of change and flux by design. I'm very supportive of UPG, as long as it's recognized and labeled as such. I have a few ideas that are quite contrary to traditional Lore, but I make no pretentions about them having any kind of historocity, and speak from the viewpoint of tradition when interacting with other Pagans and Heathens.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

It's just not like that with the pre-Christian traditions of Celtic/Germanic-speaking people. We often have to risk that road to New Age/"fakelore" stuff just to build something cohesive, simply because so much has been lost. But I'm more okay with that; living religions are always in a state of change and flux by design. I'm very supportive of UPG, as long as it's recognized and labeled as such. I have a few ideas that are quite contrary to traditional Lore, but I make no pretentions about them having any kind of historocity, and speak from the viewpoint of tradition when interacting with other Pagans and Heathens.

You may not have written instructions on what to do in a ritual, as the Egyptians do, but I doubt that there was any general pattern anyway. The thing about Heathens is that you have enough literature - myths and sagas - to know how they felt and thought, and reconstructing the attitude seems to do it. I always say I can understand where Heathens are coming from, and likewise traditional ethnic pagans outside the West, in a way that I can't always relate to Wiccans and the pick-and-mix types.

 

[Riverwolf]

You may not have written instructions on what to do in a ritual, as the Egyptians do, but I doubt that there was any general pattern anyway. The thing about Heathens is that you have enough literature - myths and sagas - to know how they felt and thought, and reconstructing the attitude seems to do it. I always say I can understand where Heathens are coming from, and likewise traditional ethnic pagans outside the West, in a way that I can't always relate to Wiccans and the pick-and-mix types.

Oh, yeah, we can definitely reconstruct the attitude. ...well, of a specific group from a period of about 2, 300 years, give or take, the later half of which involves literature written by Christians. Also consider that in a Swedish Viking's grave, they found a Buddha statuette. Don't try telling me said Viking wasn't at least somewhat influenced by Buddhist thinking during that time in India, or that other Swedish Vikings trading with Muslim countries didn't get at least somewhat influenced by Muslim thought. Not saying they became Buddhist or Muslim outright; just saying "pick-and-mix" is probably itself a pre-Christian tradition of sorts. Heck, to me, it seems an inevitable result of polytheism combined with cultural exchange.

I'm an Anglo-Saxon-esque Heathen, and we know almost nothing about what the Anglo-Saxons as a cultural whole might have been like, assuming there was any kind of cultural homogeneity among the, at least, three (four if the Frisians were in there) quite distinct Ingwine tribes involved, before Christianization; let alone the Norman invasion which almost wiped out whatever might have been left.

Besides, pure reconstructionism in this context isn't really possible. With Hellenism, Religio Romana, and Kemeticism, it's also easier because those cultures were very similar to our own, in that they were incredibly urbanized. A good microcosm for how similar Western Civilization's panculture is to theirs, at least in their urban centers, is that the pre-Christian Romans had what I can only describe as "Classical Fast Food", including a dish we now call the hamburger. It's easier to apply these pre-Christian/Muslim Mediterranean urban religions to modern urban life, than it is to apply pre-Christian traditions of Northern Europe. Don't forget, the vast majority of people practicing those traditions, living in Northern Europe after West Rome's collapse, were farmers.

I'm not a Northern European farmer hardened by Sunless Winters and Clouded Summers. I'm a sheltered suburban kid from Summerland (that is, California) raised by Sonic the Hedgehog, Doom, and Pokémon. I've never eaten animals that I once fed with my own hands, nor had to face the hardships resulting from a bad harvest. I tried my hand at sustainable farming on a 3-month live-in internship a few years ago. Left after 5 weeks from sheer exhaustion that left me barely able to walk or even speak (don't get me wrong; it was an AMAZING experience, and I kinda want to try again someday ).

However, many of those pre-Christian traditions actually did survive in secularized (and sometimes Christianized) forms. I'm convinced that the May Queen and King celebrations in England are the modern forms of pre-Christian worship of Freya and Frey, and that they even exist in modern American culture in the form of the High School tradition of the Prom Queen and King. Heck, even Santa Clause/Father Christmas is thought to be a continuation of old traditions of worshiping the Yuleking; that is, Woden. In these cases, it's more a matter of reapplying their polytheist contexts, at least for ourselves as Heathens. I also have no problem with "Heathenizing" some technically post-Christian traditions from Northern Europe that have decidedly pagan-esque imagery. I've already written (not yet posted) a fairy tale about Frey wooing the Goddess Eostre (whom I straight up name Easter in the story) when the latter makes the former go on, well, an Easter Egg hunt. As an Anglo-Saxon-esque Heathen, I also apply other traditions of England, and the British Isles as a whole, such as deifying Robin Hood. I've considered joining OBOD at some point, as well. If I'm ever in Ireland, you can bet that I'm gonna give some kind of offering to the River Goddess Shannon.

Just like, when I was in Japan, I gave offerings to, and prayed at, some of the shrines. I wasn't Heathen then, nor was I ever a follower of Shinto (and most likely never will be because I'm not Japanese at all), but when I go back someday, I'll do so again when allowed. I don't have to actively follow a region's specific polytheist religion in order to pray/give offerings to the Gods and wights who live there, as long as I'm allowed to do so. One of these days, I'm going to visit Greece, hopefully with my dad. From him, I have a lot of Greek blood. I will absolutely take part in whatever rituals to the Gods I'm allowed to. (EDIT: For clarification, no, I don't practice any Native American rituals or honor any of the local wights, tempting as it can be sometimes, since I don't know anything about them or how the local Tribes worshiped them if at all. Cultural appropriation is bad. Hence why I always stated "as long as I'm allowed" for the above things.)

Hethen Revivalism is all about bringing back the spirit and meaning of our pre-Christian traditions, but applying them to modern life, as opposed to trying to recreate all parts of pre-Christian Northern European life and culture. Frankly, some of the things they seemed to value are best left in the past. You'll notice that I title myself as a Proud Ergi.