For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

[Hockeycowboy]

That's great... except you have hundreds of different Christian sects ALL claiming that THEY have properly interpreted His Word, while all of the OTHER sects have it wrong. As an outsider looking in it certainly appears as if people are capable of interpreting His Word virtually any way that they want, which leads me to believe that the bible isn't any different than the 1000's of other religious texts that have been written over the centuries.

The way to accurately ID a group claiming God’s approval is, not by how they interpret the Bible (as you say, there’s so many), but by how they act. Jesus gave God’s standard, at John 13:34-35. The Apostle John reiterated that standard even more strongly, at 1 John 3:10-15. Loving their brother would transcend all boundaries: racial, national, etc., a truly global brotherhood.

 

[Faithofchristian]

To answer the Thread,
For Christians, Was the flood real or just a myth?
It all depends on what flood is being spoken of.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The way to accurately ID a group claiming God’s approval is, not by how they interpret the Bible (as you say, there’s so many), but by how they act. Jesus gave God’s standard, at John 13:34-35. The Apostle John reiterated that standard even more strongly, at 1 John 3:10-15. Loving their brother would transcend all boundaries: racial, national, etc., a truly global brotherhood.

So basically all you need to know is that if I wouldn't someone else to do something to me then I probably shouldn't do that something to anyone else. Seems like an awfully big book to convey such a simple and obvious message. It's almost as if all the other stuff in there is designed to confuse matters.

 

[DennisTate]

I can't understand why you think anything having to do with aliens, - is associated with an earth created God.

The consensus of most Christian scholars is that the watchers means angels.

Below is one of those.

"(4.) The truth of it is confirmed (Dan_4:17); This matter is by the decree of the watchers and the demand by the word of the holy ones. God has determined it, as a righteous Judge; he has signed this edict; pursuant to his eternal counsel, the decree has gone forth, And, [1.] The angels of heaven have subscribed to it, as attesting it, approving it, and applauding it. It is by the decree of the watchers; not that the great God needs the counsel or concurrence of the angels in any thing he determines or does, but, as he uses their ministration in executing his counsels, so he is sometimes represented, after the manner of men, as if he consulted them." - Matthew Henry's Commentary On The Whole Bible

*

Because I read the book of Genesis.....
and believed it to be inspired......

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So what?__Are you familiar with the square/cube law?

The Ark was built by the measurements as outlined in Genesis.
To me, that was before there was any mention of the square/cube law, and I find the Ark was a rectangle in shape according to the Genesis measurements.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yet another reason none of it makes sense. No one can agree on what the silly book says, which makes it basically useless.

I think people who really take note of the Genesis account find it makes sense.
Sometimes people just go by what they heard instead of what the Bible really teaches.
For example: drawings of the Ark are often quite different from the rectangular shape as described in Genesis.
That does Not make the Genesis account as wrong, but artists conceptions out of harmony with Genesis as wrong.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

To answer the Thread,
For Christians, Was the flood real or just a myth?
It all depends on what flood is being spoken of.

Huh, the Genesis Deluge, or the Flood of Noah's Day is real according to Jesus at Matthew 24:37-39
I wonder what other flood you have in mind as being spoken of as a possible myth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Ark was built by the measurements as outlined in Genesis.
To me, that was before there was any mention of the square/cube law, and I find the Ark was a rectangle in shape according to the Genesis measurements.

It was not needed. The law exists regardless. There was no mention of the law of gravity, yet that exists too.

Unlike in cartoons, an ignorance of the laws of science will not save you in the real world.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I can't understand why you think anything having to do with aliens, - is associated with an earth created God.
The consensus of most Christian scholars is that the watchers means angels.
Below is one of those.
"(4.) The truth of it is confirmed (Dan_4:17); This matter is by the decree of the watchers and the demand by the word of the holy ones. God has determined it, as a righteous Judge; he has signed this edict; pursuant to his eternal counsel, the decree has gone forth, And, [1.] The angels of heaven have subscribed to it, as attesting it, approving it, and applauding it. It is by the decree of the watchers; not that the great God needs the counsel or concurrence of the angels in any thing he determines or does, but, as he uses their ministration in executing his counsels, so he is sometimes represented, after the manner of men, as if he consulted them." - Matthew Henry's Commentary On The Whole Bible
*

Help, I can't find watchers mentioned at Daniel 4:17 or is it found in another Bible verse.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Huh, the Genesis Deluge, or the Flood of Noah's Day is real according to Jesus at Matthew 24:37-39
I wonder what other flood you have in mind as being spoken of as a possible myth.

Nope, he never made that claim. He only made a poetic reference to it. One could say that "Grandma is as old as the hills". The fact that the hills are much older does not make that statement a lie. The people that one is talking to understand that to mean that she is very old. And you are lucky that he did not say "The flood really really happened". If that was the case your God would either be a liar or Jesus was not God. Both would seem tp be catastrophic for your beliefs.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It was not needed. The law exists regardless. There was no mention of the law of gravity, yet that exists too.
Unlike in cartoons, an ignorance of the laws of science will not save you in the real world.

I agree that was Not needed as the law of gravity was Not needed even the Law of Cause and Effect Not mentioned.
In order for the rectangular-shaped Ark to be built there was Not need to know or mention such laws.
I wonder if you made a miniature Ark ( as described in Genesis ) and tried to sink it, would it sink.

In Bible speak, the ' real ' world will begin on calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins. The reason it can be referred to the ' real ' world is because at this coming time Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among person's of goodwill. To me willful ignorance of the Bible doesn't save (deliver/rescue) anyone thorough the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree that was Not needed as the law of gravity was Not needed even the Law of Cause and Effect Not mentioned.
In order for the rectangular-shaped Ark to be built there was Not need to know or mention such laws.
I wonder if you made a miniature Ark ( as described in Genesis ) and tried to sink it, would it sink.

In Bible speak, the ' real ' world will begin on calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins. The reason it can be referred to the ' real ' world is because at this coming time Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among person's of goodwill. To me willful ignorance of the Bible doesn't save (deliver/rescue) anyone thorough the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.

What "Law of Cause and Effect"? That is usually a misunderstanding of physics by creationists. There really is no such law in the sciences.

If one made a miniature Ark it would not sink. But that is pointless since some things do not scale down.

And the real world is the one that you and I live in. There is a thread dedicated to why we know that there was no flood. We could discuss the topic here or there, Either way I will gladly explain to you why there was no flood.

The cube/square law is one reason that the giant insects of science fiction are impossible. They would collapse under their own weight. Even when the air had much more oxygen in the atmosphere and the predators of today did not exist insects still did not get anywhere close to that size. The same problem applies to your Ark myth. The full size wooden Ark would flex under waves and gravity. It would split open in no time and quickly sink.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Nope, he never made that claim. He only made a poetic reference to it........... And you are lucky that he did not say "The flood really really happened". If that was the case your God would either be a liar or Jesus was not God. Both would seem to be catastrophic for your beliefs.

Yes, Jesus made reference to the Noahic Flood at Matthew 24:37-39 and as a real Flood at Luke 17:26-27.
- Genesis 6:11-13; Genesis 7:7,23; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:19-20; 2 Peter 2:5; 2 Peter 3:6.
Jesus also likened our day to Sodom and Gomorrah's day I find at Luke 17:28-30.

Of course Jesus is Not God. Jesus was Never God. God can Not lie according to Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18.
Jesus' recorded words at John 10:36 have Jesus saying that he is the Son of God.
Gospel writer John wrote at Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.
God is from everlasting according to Psalms 90:2 meaning God had No beginning.
So, only God was before the beginning. Pre-human Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning. Pre-human Jesus was first born in the heavens according to Colossians 1:15.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I think people who really take note of the Genesis account find it makes sense.
Sometimes people just go by what they heard instead of what the Bible really teaches.
For example: drawings of the Ark are often quite different from the rectangular shape as described in Genesis.
That does Not make the Genesis account as wrong, but artists conceptions out of harmony with Genesis as wrong.

But I HAVE read the account. And it STILL doesn't make sense that God had Noah go through all of this effort to save the animals when God could have created a new batch with ease.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, Jesus made reference to the Noahic Flood at Matthew 24:37-39 and as a real Flood at Luke 17:26-27.
- Genesis 6:11-13; Genesis 7:7,23; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:19-20; 2 Peter 2:5; 2 Peter 3:6.
Jesus also likened our day to Sodom and Gomorrah's day I find at Luke 17:28-30.

Of course Jesus is Not God. Jesus was Never God. God can Not lie according to Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18.
Jesus' recorded words at John 10:36 have Jesus saying that he is the Son of God.
Gospel writer John wrote at Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.
God is from everlasting according to Psalms 90:2 meaning God had No beginning.
So, only God was before the beginning. Pre-human Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning. Pre-human Jesus was first born in the heavens according to Colossians 1:15.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12.

I know that he made a reference to it. Do you not understand basic English?

Once again Jesus used all sorts of literary tools to relate to others. He never said that those events actually happened or even implied that they did. If somebody says that "Grandma is as old as the hills" does that mean that that person believes that grandma is really that old?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What "Law of Cause and Effect"? That is usually a misunderstanding of physics by creationists. There really is no such law in the sciences.
If one made a miniature Ark it would not sink. But that is pointless since some things do not scale down.
The cube/square law is one reason that the giant insects of science fiction are impossible. They would collapse under their own weight. Even when the air had much more oxygen in the atmosphere and the predators of today did not exist insects still did not get anywhere close to that size. The same problem applies to your Ark myth. The full size wooden Ark would flex under waves and gravity. It would split open in no time and quickly sink.

If there is No Law in science of ' cause and effect ' then I wonder how one explains what one sows is what one reaps.
If one sows corn does he Not reap corn. If one drinks poison does he Not reap the effect of poison, etc. Who set that existing ' law ' in motion if there is No such law in the sciences.

On a PBS program a scaled-down Ark was put in a bath tub and Not matter how hard the water was spinned and churned they could Not capsize the miniature down-to-scale Ark model. Since large-scale modern ocean liners do Not sink, to me that shows the water-proofed rectangular Ark could also Not sink. Just as the Ark and ocean liners are large and are Not cubes, are Not squares.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If there is No Law in science of ' cause and effect ' then I wonder how one explains what one sows is what one reaps.
If one sows corn does he Not reap corn. If one drinks poison does he Not reap the effect of poison, etc. Who set that existing ' law ' in motion if there is No such law in the sciences.

On a PBS program a scaled-down Ark was put in a bath tub and Not matter how hard the water was spinned and churned they could Not capsize the miniature down-to-scale Ark model. Since large-scale modern ocean liners do Not sink, to me that shows the water-proofed rectangular Ark could also Not sink. Just as the Ark and ocean liners are large and are Not cubes, are Not squares.

You obviously have a rather limited science education. What is your education level? That will help me to know where to start.

By the way no one is needed to set a law into motion. Where did you get that idea from? Laws are merely observed reactions in the world of science.

And for the third time a scaled down version does not matter. Let me explain the square cube law to you. The strength of a bone, a beam, etc. is related to the area of a cross section running through it. That is proportional to the square of the radius, if we use a simple circle. The mass of that same object will be proportional to the cube of the radius. If one person is twice as tall as someone else, and every increase is in proportion then that person will weight 8 times what the first person weighs. His bones will be twice as thick and only be four times as strong. That is why there is a natural limit to our height. Anything much past 7 feet begins to be affected by this law. All human "giants" had severe health problems as a result of this law.

Scaling down a model proves nothing when strength is an issue.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But I HAVE read the account. And it STILL doesn't make sense that God had Noah go through all of this effort to save the animals when God could have created a new batch with ease.

Of course it would seen quite nice to just have God create a new batch of animals besides people (Adam&Eve).
At first, there was Nothing wrong with creation, so creation was Not at fault.
'Before' Adam and Eve ever broke the law God already degreed at Genesis 1:28 that we all be descendants from father Adam and mother Eve. God does Not go back on His purpose for Earth. God was Not going to destroy His creation. That particular animal creation was a gift from God to us.
Rather, right after A&E broke the Law, God promised us a Savior, a promised ' seed ' or offspring at Genesis 3:15.
That passing of time from Genesis allowed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
Since we inherited death from A&E and we can Not resurrect oneself or another and is why we need someone who can resurrect us, restore us back to life, and that is why God sent Jesus to enter into the picture for us.
I find according to Revelation 1:18 Jesus can and will resurrect the dead.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of course it would seen quite nice to just have God create a new batch of animals besides people (Adam&Eve).
At first, there was Nothing wrong with creation, so creation was Not at fault.
'Before' Adam and Eve ever broke the law God already degreed at Genesis 1:28 that we all be descendants from father Adam and mother Eve. God does Not go back on His purpose for Earth. God was Not going to destroy His creation. That particular animal creation was a gift from God to us.
Rather, right after A&E broke the Law, God promised us a Savior, a promised ' seed ' or offspring at Genesis 3:15.
That passing of time from Genesis allowed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
Since we inherited death from A&E and we can Not resurrect oneself or another and is why we need someone who can resurrect us, restore us back to life, and that is why God sent Jesus to enter into the picture for us.
I find according to Revelation 1:18 Jesus can and will resurrect the dead.

One myth at a time. Let's work on the Noah's Ark myth before we go over the Garden of Eve myth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You obviously have a rather limited science education. What is your education level? That will help me to know where to start.
By the way no one is needed to set a law into motion. Where did you get that idea from? Laws are merely observed reactions in the world of science.
And for the third time a scaled down version does not matter. Let me explain the square cube law to you. The strength of a bone, a beam, etc. is related to the area of a cross section running through it. That is proportional to the square of the radius, if we use a simple circle. The mass of that same object will be proportional to the cube of the radius. If one person is twice as tall as someone else, and every increase is in proportion then that person will weight 8 times what the first person weighs. His bones will be twice as thick and only be four times as strong. That is why there is a natural limit to our height. Anything much past 7 feet begins to be affected by this law. All human "giants" had severe health problems as a result of this law.
Scaling down a model proves nothing when strength is an issue.

As far as I know today's ocean liners are much more than 7 feet long.
To me the law of 'cause and effect' is merely an observed reaction in the world of science.
Plant corn (sow) and will reap corn. Eat poison and observe sickness and death.

Again, the Ark was Not a cube, the Ark was Not a square. The biblical Ark was a rectangle in shape.
Neither the Ark nor ocean liners are physical things. What is the natural height to a non-physical skyscraper.