For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

[Faithofchristian]

I think Genesis 1:2 is Not talking about a flood, but just that waters were covering the Earth before dry land ever appeared. That water covering over Earth is part of the first account about Earth being created/constructed in chronological order.

There's no where in Genesis Chapter 1 Verse's 1 thru 5 That God created the waters. The water was already there. So was the earth.
All we have is in Verse 1 that states, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
So the question is, When was the beginning?
If you notice that after Earth there's a Period to indicate nothing more to be said or done.
That's what a Period indicates at the end of a sentence. Nothing more to be added or said Period.
So why would an all powerful God, create the earth and then cover it with water and then come back and have the dry land appear.

Why not just do this in the first place, Which would make more sense, than to cover the earth with water and then after wards come back to have the dry land appear out of the water.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

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Wooden boats the size of the Ark, even with steel reinforcement, have all failed. Do you need examples?

Remember: the Ark was Not a boat, it was a 'rectangular box' that was water proofed both inside and outside.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There's no where in Genesis Chapter 1 Verse's 1 thru 5 That God created the waters. The water was already there. So was the earth.
All we have is in Verse 1 that states, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
So the question is, When was the beginning?
If you notice that after Earth there's a Period to indicate nothing more to be said or done.
That's what a Period indicates that the end of a sentence. Nothing more to be added or said Period.

I find God created the Earth in Genesis 1. God's spirit moved upon the face of earth's waters.
Because of the accuracy of CMBR (cosmic microwave background radiation) earth's beginning can be measured.
So, can the beginning or start of our Universe be accurately dated by CMBR.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Remember: the Ark was Not a boat, it was a 'rectangular box' that was water proofed both inside and outside.

You are only making things worse for yourself. What makes you think that a wooden box would be more seaworthy than a ship? There is a reason that ships are built in the shape that they have. The actions of waves on a giant box that cannot cut the waves would be even more severe than the actions on a ship that is designed to do that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I find God created the Earth in Genesis 1. God's spirit moved upon the face of earth's waters.
Because of the accuracy of CMBR (cosmic microwave background radiation) earth's beginning can be measured.
So, can the beginning or start of our Universe be accurately dated by CMBR.

The CMBR can be used to date the beginning of the universe, not the Earth. The Earth was not formed until much later. the universe is about 13.82 billion years old. The Earth 4.55 billion years old.

ETA: And the CMBR was formed about 13.73 billion years ago. It took roughly 100 million years for the early universe to expand and cool enough to form the CMBR.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You are only making things worse for yourself. What makes you think that a wooden box would be more seaworthy than a ship? There is a reason that ships are built in the shape that they have. The actions of waves on a giant box that cannot cut the waves would be even more severe than the actions on a ship that is designed to do that.

That ' wooden box ' aka Ark ( water proofed from the inside and the outside ) did Not have to be seaworthy as a steering ship needed to be. ALL the Ark needed to do was float. It was Not going anywhere. No steering needed.
No cutting of the waves needed. Just needed to float. I suppose to just bob along like a cork floating on water.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The CMBR can be used to date the beginning of the universe, not the Earth. The Earth was not formed until much later. the universe is about 13.82 billion years old. The Earth 4.55 billion years old.
ETA: And the CMBR was formed about 13.73 billion years ago. It took roughly 100 million years for the early universe to expand and cool enough to form the CMBR.

If not through CMBR, then how is the 4.55 billion years arrived for dating the Earth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That ' wooden box ' aka Ark ( water proofed from the inside and the outside ) did Not have to be seaworthy as a steering ship needed to be. ALL the Ark needed to do was float. It was Not going anywhere. No steering needed.
No cutting of the waves needed. Just needed to float. I suppose to just bob along like a cork floating on water.

LOL!! Waves would exist. In case you do not know this waves move on top of the oceans. You merely keep pointing out how your arguments fail. If the ark could not cut the waves it would be MORE subject to them, not less. There is a reason that ships are not shaped like boxes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If not through CMBR, then how is the 4.55 billion years arrived for dating the Earth.

By dating meteorites. The meteorites in our Solar System would have been formed at roughly the same time as the Earth itself.

USGS Geology and Geophysics

 

[URAVIP2ME]

LOL!! Waves would exist. In case you do not know this waves move on top of the oceans. You merely keep pointing out how your arguments fail. If the ark could not cut the waves it would be MORE subject to them, not less. There is a reason that ships are not shaped like boxes.

Of course waves would exist. All the rectangular Ark had to do was bob with the waves No ship steering involved.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of course waves would exist. All the rectangular Ark had to do was bob with the waves No ship steering involved.

And there's your problem. You do not appear to understand what waves would do to such a huge box. It would flex and break as the wave lifted one end before the other.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And there's your problem. You do not appear to understand what waves would do to such a huge box. It would flex and break as the wave lifted one end before the other.

In the bathtub experiment, No matter how much force was applied to the water they could Not break the small-scaled model Ark. The Ark was Not resisting the waves as a steering ship would.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In the bathtub experiment, No matter how much force was applied to the water they could Not break the small-scaled model Ark. The Ark was Not resisting the waves as a steering ship would.

And once again, that does not matter. You are forgetting the Square/Cube Law again. And your model would "resist the water" more than a ship would. That is why it is a terribly failed design.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And once again, that does not matter. You are forgetting the Square/Cube Law again. And your model would "resist the water" more than a ship would. That is why it is a terribly failed design.

Does a bobbing cork resist the water, or just merrily, merrily go along...........

 

[Subduction Zone]

Does a bobbing cork resist the water, or just merrily, merrily go along...........

Please, try to keep on topic. A cork is a very very small object. You are now being a big dishonest too. If you don't understand something, such as the square/cube law you should be asking questions. And like it or not you are now calling your God a liar.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Please, try to keep on topic. A cork is a very very small object. You are now being a big dishonest too. If you don't understand something, such as the square/cube law you should be asking questions. And like it or not you are now calling your God a liar.

Don't understand how the size of a cork has any bearing.
Again the Ark was a rectangle and Not a square or a cube.
To me, you are calling the God of the Bible a liar as if He could Not know how to keep the Ark afloat.
Controversy about the Ark isn't going to change what is written in Scripture.
To me since the Ark is real ( resting at Mt. Ararat ) then the warning connected to the Ark is real.
2 Peter 3:5 referring to Noah's day as the governmental heavens and earth of OLD.
2 Peter 3:7 referring from Noah's day to our day as the governmental heavens and earth of NOW.
2 Peter 3:13 referring from NOW to the NEW heavens and earth coming under Christ's 1,000-year rule over Earth.
The NEW governmental heavens over righteous mankind or righteous society on earth is coming under Christ's reign.
Then, we can ask Noah about any questions one might have. For now as free-willed people we can choose whether to use our free-will choices in a moral way or not. People of Noah's day chose to take no note.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Don't understand how the size of a cork has any bearing.

Then why did you bring it up?

Again the Ark was a rectangle and Not a square or a cube.

So what?

To me, you are calling the God of the Bible a liar as if He could Not know how to keep the Ark afloat.

That is because you cannot think logically. We can discuss that separately if you like.

Controversy about the Ark isn't going to change what is written in Scripture.

Perhaps, but then why do you cling to this myth so hard? And what controversy? Ark believers are wrong, that is all there is to it.

To me since the Ark is real ( resting at Mt. Ararat ) then the warning connected to the Ark is real.

Then even if your God is real you simply do not understand the story.

2 Peter 3:5 referring to Noah's day as the governmental heavens and earth of OLD.
2 Peter 3:7 referring from Noah's day to our day as the governmental heavens and earth of NOW.
2 Peter 3:13 referring from NOW to the NEW heavens and earth coming under Christ's 1,000-year rule over Earth.
The NEW governmental heavens over righteous mankind or righteous society on earth is coming under Christ's reign.
Then, we can ask Noah about any questions one might have. For now as free-willed people we can choose whether to use our free-will choices in a moral way or not. People of Noah's day chose to take no note.

So what again? Referring to ignorant people in the Bible does not help your argument. Let's leave your book of myths out of this for now and merely discuss the facts.

 

[Ingledsva]

Because I read the book of Genesis.....
and believed it to be inspired......

And your point is???

I gave you CHRISTIAN scholarly commentary stating that the "watchers" are angels.

"(4.) The truth of it is confirmed (Dan_4:17); This matter is by the decree of the watchers and the demand by the word of the holy ones. God has determined it, as a righteous Judge; he has signed this edict; pursuant to his eternal counsel, the decree has gone forth, And, [1.] The angels of heaven have subscribed to it, as attesting it, approving it, and applauding it. It is by the decree of the watchers; not that the great God needs the counsel or concurrence of the angels in any thing he determines or does, but, as he uses their ministration in executing his counsels, so he is sometimes represented, after the manner of men, as if he consulted them." - Matthew Henry's Commentary On The Whole Bible

ALL of the Christian commentaries that I have looked at, - say that watchers just means angels.

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[Ingledsva]

Huh, the Genesis Deluge, or the Flood of Noah's Day is real according to Jesus at Matthew 24:37-39
I wonder what other flood you have in mind as being spoken of as a possible myth.

A writer - putting words in Jesus' mouth, - long after Jesus was dead, - does not mean Jesus actually said them.

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[Ingledsva]

Don't understand how the size of a cork has any bearing.
Again the Ark was a rectangle and Not a square or a cube.
To me, you are calling the God of the Bible a liar as if He could Not know how to keep the Ark afloat.
Controversy about the Ark isn't going to change what is written in Scripture.
To me since the Ark is real ( resting at Mt. Ararat ) then the warning connected to the Ark is real.
2 Peter 3:5 referring to Noah's day as the governmental heavens and earth of OLD.
2 Peter 3:7 referring from Noah's day to our day as the governmental heavens and earth of NOW.
2 Peter 3:13 referring from NOW to the NEW heavens and earth coming under Christ's 1,000-year rule over Earth.
The NEW governmental heavens over righteous mankind or righteous society on earth is coming under Christ's reign.
Then, we can ask Noah about any questions one might have. For now as free-willed people we can choose whether to use our free-will choices in a moral way or not. People of Noah's day chose to take no note.

There is so much in the Noah's Ark story that shows it to be imposable.

According to CHRISTIAN sites -

8 people.
30 - 50 years to build it.
In some middle east country, = lots of desert.
size 300 cubits X 50 cubits X 30 cubits.

And - most Christians say two of each animal.

It actually does say to take them in pairs, but of the clean animals seven pairs of each, and it says to also take food animals. They have to eat and so do the animals.

As has been pointed out multiple times by science, they could not have put two of every animal on the ark. It would not hold them. Thus some Christians are trying to pare it back to type groupings; however this is shown to be wrong by the seven pairs of each clean type. It is literally saying two of every kind, plus a whole lot more for food, sacrifices, etc. impossible!

How do all the world's animals get there? How do the saltwater and freshwater fish and mammals - not on the Ark, - survive the mixing of fresh and saltwater, with mud, debris, dead body goo, and blood? Where did they stick the pair of 23 fool long 3 ton infant blue whales? Or the 100 + gallons of milk to feed them daily for over a year?

Taking two of each kind of flying thing, - is not going to stop the rest from landing on the only solid surface - and toppling the boat. Hitchcock's "The Birds" would be like kiddy fare in comparison. The woodpeckers would only have the boat to peck holes in, = blub-blub-blub.

And the mosquitos and other insects eating all the rotting floating dead, - would spread disease and death to all the animals, and the humans on board.

How do they get enough wood to build this monstrosity?

Because of it's width to length, - it would have split apart in the wave turmoil.

Most Christian site show this more modern boat with curved lines and prow, a rudder, etc. It does not say that . You can really see how ridiculous this thing is by measuring it out on your kitchen table, or floor. It is 300 cubits X 50 cubits X 30 cubits, which is a handy ratio, as we only have to drop one zero and use inches, = 30 inches long X 5 inches wide X 3 inches tall.

You end up with an overloaded long narrow pencil box, that obviously will snap in turbulent wave action, which you would have to have with a world wide flood. Let alone everything the boat would be hitting in the waves. Also, not even counting the weak-point the door in the side is.

Not possible, no matter how you try to fudge it.

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