For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Since none of us were in the Ark we just don't know how unevenly the Ark moved because God was behind it.
So, to me just how much distortion and stress was upon the Ark we don't know.

That's what math is for.

The ' sign ' so to speak, about a 'global Flood with only a few survivors' are very many similar stories found all over the Earth including earth's islands.

But not Noah and his family. If Noah and his family were the only ones to survive, their names or cognates of those names would be all over the globe too.

To me, the point is Not that we can't answer all questions, but that because the Earth was full of violence according to Genesis 6:11 indicates that if there was Not divine involvement those violent people would have done away with all righteous or upright persons.

The bible needs an excuse to wipe out a lot of innocent people and make God seem better.

The Flood waters could have pushed earth around creating deep valleys and much higher mountains than originally existing at the time of Eden.

Do you have any major floods like tsunamis that can show us this concept?

Since we can Not stop sinning is why Jesus' ransom covers our sins.
If we deliberately, intentionally, on purpose, willfully practice sin Jesus' ransom does Not cover such sins.

Frankly, I just got tired of Christianity telling people not to take responsibility and just assuming it's okay to throw Jesus under the bus so they can get to heaven.

During Jesus' coming 1,000-year reign over Earth is when Satan will be locked up for a thousand years.

They're all immortal, right? Why can they only spare a single millennium? Does Jesus have something better to do? Does locking Satan up in his "home" in hell do anything? It's like grounding a child by sending them to their room where all their toys are.

Without Satan's influence on us imperfect people, and with enemy death being No more on Earth

So if I eat something, it'll still be alive when it comes out the other end?

We will be healthy to the point that physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually we will be only upright in thinking.

That was supposedly the way it was in Eden. How'd that work out again?

The Ark did have windows right below the roof to let light in.

There's more than one deck, though.

If the Ark was in several decks then the open center of the Ark could have easily been away from the pitch (tar) so that candle light or oil lamp light would have also been away from the pitch (tar).

How'd they fasten the oil lamps in the air so that nothing would spill during all the tumultuous waves? Modern ships can't even keep a table from flinging across the room in a hurricane.

Plus, daylight could have shown down to the center of the Ark's lowest level.

First you say we can't know how the Ark worked and now you're telling us you can design an ark where windows in the roof (which would let in all that rain) will let sunshine (what sunshine in a month-long storm?) in to the lowest deck?

So, God allows us to choose, God does Not bully or force us into serving Him.

LOL!

It is God's enemy, our enemy, Satan who challenges ALL of us at Job 2:4-5

He also challenges God to spite a man for no reason, and God obliges. God shouldn't throw stones in glass houses.

Under adverse conditions both Job and Jesus proved faithful and so can we. We too can prove Satan a liar.

Job cursed the day he was born and Jesus was hardly put out. It's almost insulting to Job to equate Jesus' hippie time in the desert with unending torture and loss.

In Scripture God would know how to safeguard

God can't find the only two humans in a garden and requires lamb's blood gang tags to differentiate between Hebrews and Egyptians. Forgive me if I question "BibleGod's" common sense.

We will know more during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth.

Doesn't Jesus have more important things to do than rehash old stories? Wars, rape, racism, etc ... is making sure we know what happened on the Ark REALLY a priority? I mean, it's not like Jesus has all the time in the world ... he's only penciled us in for a mere 10 centuries and after that, we're back on our own again.

From the evidence found on the ground the "flood" is real indeed

Show me post flood pictures from any flood anywhere on the globe that produces the Grand Canyon's effects. I'll wait.

If this is what you believe I am not here to try and stop you

I think it may be referring to the "God separating the waters from the waters" stuff early on.

So why is the water covering the earth?

Because it's an ancient literary trope to suggest formlessness pre-civilization.

What your saying, is like going to a NASA rocket scientist, and dispute with them over something you have no knowledge about.

I know not to shoehorn in a launch without proper inspections leading to explosions.[/QUOTE]

 

[metis]

Frankly, I just got tired of Christianity telling people not to take responsibility and just assuming it's okay to throw Jesus under the bus so they can get to heaven.

Fortunately, not all Christian denominations do this, but unfortunately the ones that are the fastest growing tend to be like you say. Most, but not all, of the mainline Protestant churches, as well as the Orthodox and Catholic churches, still teach about obligations that the congregant must take responsibility for and that not doing so could jeopardize their salvation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You show yourself as not knowing what the Bible Support's.
Now to answer your question, Why I ignore the illustration, because you, yourself ignored.
You really believe that a Christian should go long with scientist and denounce the bible.
Are you freaking kidding me.

I probably understand what the Bible supports better than you do. And you do not get to say who is and who is not a Christian. Being a Christian does not mean that you have to believe all of the myths of the Bible. I do not know of any scientist that has "denounce"d the Bible. Pointing out its errors is not denouncing it.

[quote\]

How many Scientist have dated the dinosaurs bones to be Millions of years old. Had you any idea the dinosaurs bones stands there as God's witnesses to the fact that the earth as being Millions of years old. And the bible Support's this.
Had you any understanding what the Bible actually does support. Unto which you have No understanding about the bible.[/quoite]

The Bible says nothing about either dinosaurs or the Earth being billions of years old. Like I said, I probably understand the Bible better than you do. You are making a common error of trying to reinterpret the Bible to match reality.

You just criticize things you don't understand in or about what the Bible Support's.

Now you are merely projecting your sins upon others. You should realize that most atheists understand the Bible better than most Christians. It is one of the reasons that many of them became atheists.

How about we get on with that science education of yours? It does not take too much of an understanding of the sciences to realize that there never was a global flood.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Then you are saying that the flood never happened.
The evidence that tells us that there was no flood is almost endless. The only way that evidence could be there is if your God made it to cover up the flood if it ever happened. But that would mean that your God is a liar. By claiming that the flood is real you are claiming that God lied. Perhaps there is another way to look at the story.

No, I am Not saying the Flood of Noah's Day did Not happen.
I will say ' seeming ' evidence because even if we do Not, at this time, have all the answers, Not just in Genesis but throughout Bible history the writers also accepted the account about Noah such as in Chronicles, Isaiah 54:9; Ezekiel 14:14,20; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5 besides Jesus' recorded words.
The main point is that a violent world was brought to ruin by divine involvement.
The main point still is that this out-of-control world of today will be rescued (delivered/saved) by divine involvement.
There will be No lie found at the soon coming ' time of separation ' as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33,37 because as there was divine involvement in Noah's Day, there will be divine involvement again. Not by water, but as written at Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-16 by the executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of violence and wickedness.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, I am Not saying the Flood of Noah's Day did Not happen.
I will say ' seeming ' evidence because even if we do Not, at this time, have all the answers, Not just in Genesis but throughout Bible history the writers also accepted the account about Noah such as in Chronicles, Isaiah 54:9; Ezekiel 14:14,20; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5 besides Jesus' recorded words.
The main point is that a violent world was brought to ruin by divine involvement.
The main point still is that this out-of-control world of today will be rescued (delivered/saved) by divine involvement.
There will be No lie found at the soon coming ' time of separation ' as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33,37 because as there was divine involvement in Noah's Day, there will be divine involvement again. Not by water, but as written at Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-16 by the executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of violence and wickedness.

Can you tell me how you interpret the flood myth? How about the Adam and Eve myth?


And if you treat those as morality tales there is no lie to deal with. At best they are not meant to be taken literally at all.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Bible says nothing about either dinosaurs or the Earth being billions of years old. Like I said, I probably understand the Bible better than you do.................

Right, the Bible does Not mention dinosaurs or age of Earth. Where is it written that it must mention that.
The Genesis account is about God getting Earth ready for mankind to inhabit Earth.
There is Nothing in Genesis saying how long each creative day was, nor does it say if each creative day was of the same length of time or of differing lengths of time. ALL of the creative days are summed up by the word 'day ' at Genesis 2:4. So, as we talk of grandfather's day Not being a set day but a period of time.
Genesis has two (2) accounts about creation from two (2) different viewpoints:
1st one describes the creation of our heavens and earth and what is here on earth for mankind at Gen. 1-2:4.
2nd one concentrates on the creation of the human race and the fall into sin, breaking God's Law at Gen. 2:5-4:26.
The 1st account is constructed chronologically divided into six (6) consecutive ' days ' or time periods.
The 2nd account is written in the order of topical importance for us.
So, Genesis two adds some details which do Not conflict but simply picks up or takes up at a point in the third creative day. ALL created before day seven (7) God resting from doing any more creative works during this time frame.
Genesis is teaching us that Adam was Not created to be here for a short visit, but to have an everlasting purpose to live here on a beautiful paradisical earth forever. Jesus will undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us so that we ( majority of mankind ) can gain everlasting life on Earth forever.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I probably understand what the Bible supports better than you do. And you do not get to say who is and who is not a Christian. Being a Christian does not mean that you have to believe all of the myths of the Bible. I do not know of any scientist that has "denounce"d the Bible. Pointing out its errors is not denouncing it.

[quote\]

How many Scientist have dated the dinosaurs bones to be Millions of years old. Had you any idea the dinosaurs bones stands there as God's witnesses to the fact that the earth as being Millions of years old. And the bible Support's this.
Had you any understanding what the Bible actually does support. Unto which you have No understanding about the bible.[/quoite]

The Bible says nothing about either dinosaurs or the Earth being billions of years old. Like I said, I probably understand the Bible better than you do. You are making a common error of trying to reinterpret the Bible to match reality.



Now you are merely projecting your sins upon others. You should realize that most atheists understand the Bible better than most Christians. It is one of the reasons that many of them became atheists.

How about we get on with that science education of yours? It does not take too much of an understanding of the sciences to realize that there never was a global flood.

Just because you can't put things together in the Bible, doesn't mean its not there.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned" 1 Corinthians 2:14.

There are many things written in the scriptures that are Spiritually discerned by the Spirit of God.

Take the book of Mark Chapter 13, Christ Jesus has given what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is, and when it will happen and by who can commit it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Can you tell me how you interpret the flood myth? How about the Adam and Eve myth?
And if you treat those as morality tales there is no lie to deal with. At best they are not meant to be taken literally at all.

What is to interpret because Genesis and other Bible writers accept the Flood as a real Flood.
When we die we go to the ground. When Adam died he returned to the ground.
Just as there was No post-mortem penalty for Adam there is No post-mortem penalty for mankind.
Problem is: we can Not resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone who can do that resurrecting for us.
According to Revelation 1:18 Jesus can and will resurrect the dead back to life.
I find according to Scripture everyone Jesus resurrected he resurrected back to healthy physical life on Earth.
So, Jesus was giving us a small resurrection sample of what he will be doing on a GRAND global scale during his coming 1,000-year rule over Earth when the majority of mankind can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to live life on Earth with the opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just because you can't put things together in the Bible, doesn't mean its not there.

Please, trying to say that the Bible says something that it does not is bearing false witness.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned" 1 Corinthians 2:14.

That is what is called a defensive verse. The writers of the Bible knew what they were peddling so they falsely accused others. You do not have to drink the Kool-Aid to understand the Bible.

There are many things written in the scriptures that are Spiritually discerned by the Spirit of God.

Take the book of Mark Chapter 13, Christ Jesus has given what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is, and when it will happen and by who can commit it.

Before we get onto other mythical parts of the Bible you need to deal with the obvious false claims of Genesis.

You do realize that the Noah's Ark story paints your God to be a very very evil being, don't you? He screwed up when he created the world. His "cure"? Massive genocide. Lucky for you we know the claims of a flood to be false. What you need to learn is how and why we know those claims to be false. In other words your God is not as evil as the Bible says that he is.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What is to interpret because Genesis and other Bible writers accept the Flood as a real Flood.

Then you are stating that the Bible is wrong.

When we die we go to the ground. When Adam died he returned to the ground.

Sorry, but the Adam and Eve story is another myth.

Just as there was No post-mortem penalty for Adam there is No post-mortem penalty for mankind.
Problem is: we can Not resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone who can do that resurrecting for us.
According to Revelation 1:18 Jesus can and will resurrect the dead back to life.
I find according to Scripture everyone Jesus resurrected he resurrected back to healthy physical life on Earth.
So, Jesus was giving us a small resurrection sample of what he will be doing on a GRAND global scale during his coming 1,000-year rule over Earth when the majority of mankind can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to live life on Earth with the opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

As I told Faithofchirstian, let's deal with one myth at a time.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That's what math is for.
But not Noah and his family. If Noah and his family were the only ones to survive, their names or cognates of those names would be all over the globe too.
The bible needs an excuse to wipe out a lot of innocent people and make God seem better.
Do you have any major floods like tsunamis that can show us this concept?
Frankly, I just got tired of Christianity telling people not to take responsibility and just assuming it's okay to throw Jesus under the bus so they can get to heaven.
They're all immortal, right? Why can they only spare a single millennium? Does Jesus have something better to do? Does locking Satan up in his "home" in hell do anything? It's like grounding a child by sending them to their room where all their toys are.
So if I eat something, it'll still be alive when it comes out the other end?
That was supposedly the way it was in Eden. How'd that work out again?
There's more than one deck, though.
How'd they fasten the oil lamps in the air so that nothing would spill during all the tumultuous waves? Modern ships can't even keep a table from flinging across the room in a hurricane.
First you say we can't know how the Ark worked and now you're telling us you can design an ark where windows in the roof (which would let in all that rain) will let sunshine (what sunshine in a month-long storm?) in to the lowest deck?
He also challenges God to spite a man for no reason, and God obliges. God shouldn't throw stones in glass houses.
Job cursed the day he was born and Jesus was hardly put out. It's almost insulting to Job to equate Jesus' hippie time in the desert with unending torture and loss.
God can't find the only two humans in a garden and requires lamb's blood gang tags to differentiate between Hebrews and Egyptians. Forgive me if I question "BibleGod's" common sense.
Doesn't Jesus have more important things to do than rehash old stories? Wars, rape, racism, etc ... is making sure we know what happened on the Ark REALLY a priority? I mean, it's not like Jesus has all the time in the world ... he's only penciled us in for a mere 10 centuries and after that, we're back on our own again.
Show me post flood pictures from any flood anywhere on the globe that produces the Grand Canyon's effects. I'll wait.
I think it may be referring to the "God separating the waters from the waters" stuff early on.
Because it's an ancient literary trope to suggest formlessness pre-civilization.
I know not to shoehorn in a launch without proper inspections leading to explosions.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, math was used in the measuring of the Ark in cubits. Yes, three decks.
The Bible tells us the windows were below the roof overhang, and Not on the roof.
We don't know how oil lamps or (?) were used.
Light from the windows below the roofing would have shown down to the middle of the Ark's floor because of the decking levels.

Remember Mount St. Helen's, didn't that volcanic action set some sort of record in moving earth around.

Names I find spread throughout the Earth from ancient Babylon as per Genesis 10.
They are the people of the nations who migrated out of ancient Babylon and spread their names, ideas, etc. into a greater Babylon or Babylon the Great. Whereas Noah would be part of what would be a Hebrew line.

Satan challenges ALL of us at Job 2:4-5 that under adverse conditions ' touch our flesh ' (Loose physical health) and we would Not serve God. Both Adam and Eve were under favorable conditions, whereas both Job and Jesus remained faithful to God under adverse conditions, thus showing we too can prove Satan a liar.

No, never was Adam and Eve offered immortality. They were offered everlasting life on Earth (notice Earth) if they did Not break the Law. So, we like Adam and Eve are mortals. We too are offered everlasting life on Earth to become part of the humble meek people to inherit the Earth. Inherit the Earth once the wicked are gone. The executional words from Jesus' mouth according to Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16 will rid the Earth of the wicked. To me the bottom line is only those who are like those of Luke 22:28-30 will have a heavenly resurrection to reign with Christ for a thousand years over Earth as mentioned at Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10; Revelation 2:10.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Please, trying to say that the Bible says something that it does not is bearing false witness.



That is what is called a defensive verse. The writers of the Bible knew what they were peddling so they falsely accused others. You do not have to drink the Kool-Aid to understand the Bible.



Before we get onto other mythical parts of the Bible you need to deal with the obvious false claims of Genesis.

You do realize that the Noah's Ark story paints your God to be a very very evil being, don't you? He screwed up when he created the world. His "cure"? Massive genocide. Lucky for you we know the claims of a flood to be false. What you need to learn is how and why we know those claims to be false. In other words your God is not as evil as the Bible says that he is.

Well at lease now, I know where you stand and who you are, That explains everything.

 

[metis]

Yes, math was used in the measuring of the Ark in cubits. Yes, three decks.
The Bible tells us the windows were below the roof overhang, and Not on the roof.
We don't know how oil lamps or (?) were used.
Light from the windows below the roofing would have shown down to the middle of the Ark's floor because of the decking levels.

And there's one built to these specs in Amsterdam's harbor but they're afraid to send it out because computer models indicate it's too unstable.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well at lease now, I know where you stand and who you are, That explains everything.

Please, no false claims. Let's go over the fact that by claiming the flood is real that you are calling your God a liar.

Or do you merely want to continue to run away?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You do realize that the Noah's Ark story paints your God to be a very very evil being, don't you? He screwed up when he created the world. His "cure"? Massive genocide. Lucky for you we know the claims of a flood to be false. What you need to learn is how and why we know those claims to be false. In other words your God is not as evil as the Bible says that he is.

I can't find anything evil about warning wicked or violent people as Noah preached as per 2 Peter 2:5
Even imperfect mankind sets laws for the safety of righteous or upright people, so why shouldn't God.
Man even sets limits about breaking the motor vehicle code.
His "cure" is the Golden Rule. God forces No one to obey the Golden Rule, but He does tell us of the consequences of breaking the Golden Rule. I find we are ALL asked to ' repent ' if we do Not wish to ' perish ' (be destroyed) according to 2 Peter 3:9. If God would Not take the coming action of Matthew 25:31-33,37 then the wicked would take over the Earth to the point No one righteous or upright would be left on it.
Remember: God will only bring to ruin those ruining the Earth as per Revelation 11:18 B.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And there's one built to these specs in Amsterdam's harbor but they're afraid to send it out because computer models indicate it's too unstable.

I thought that ark was a scaled-down model. Either way God was backing Noah.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I can't find anything evil about warning wicked or violent people as Noah preached as per 2 Peter 2:5

The Noah's Ark myth is found in Genesis. Try again

Even imperfect mankind sets laws for the safety of righteous or upright people, so why shouldn't God.
Man even sets limits about breaking the motor vehicle code.
His "cure" is the Golden Rule. God forces No one to obey the Golden Rule, but He does tell us of the consequences of breaking the Golden Rule. I find we are ALL asked to ' repent ' if we do Not wish to ' perish ' (be destroyed) according to 2 Peter 3:9. If God would Not take the coming action of Matthew 25:31-33,37 then the wicked would take over the Earth to the point No one righteous or upright would be left on it.
Remember: God will only bring to ruin those ruining the Earth as per Revelation 11:18 B.

No, in the Noah's Ark myth the cure was genocide. And you do not understand the demands of Christianity if you think that merely following the Golden Rule, an idea the predates Jesus, is all that is needed to go to heaven. In fact following is not needed at all, as long as one believes and repents at the end of their lives. It is a sort of get out of jail free card. The God of the Bible is not interested in justice or even proper behavior. He is rather like a mafia boss with a "Believe or get punished" mentality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I thought that ark was a scaled-down model. Either way God was backing Noah.

You should really try to learn why we know that the story never happened. How could God back a mythical being?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You should really try to learn why we know that the story never happened. How could God back a mythical being?

We do know the account is recorded in Scripture for all to see.
ALL the people in the Bible are considered as real people, so that is how the God of the Bible backs them.
I find God backs Jesus, and Jesus backs the belief about Noah, etc.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, in the Noah's Ark myth the cure was genocide. And you do not understand the demands of Christianity if you think that merely following the Golden Rule, an idea the predates Jesus, is all that is needed to go to heaven. In fact following is not needed at all, as long as one believes and repents at the end of their lives. It is a sort of get out of jail free card. The God of the Bible is not interested in justice or even proper behavior. He is rather like a mafia boss with a "Believe or get punished" mentality.

Not a mafia boss, but more like a Benevolent Benefactor.
God's ' tree of life ' provides food and healing for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2.

I never said that all that is needed to go to heaven was following the Golden Rule.
Leviticus predates Jesus, but Jesus referred to Leviticus 19:18's Golden Rule.
Only those who are like the ones of Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 20:6 are called to heaven.
They have a first or earlier resurrection, whereas the majority of people are called to live forever on Earth.
Besides Leviticus' Golden Rule, Jesus gave us a New commandment found at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has.

There is NO repenting at life's end for those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:26 because they commit the unforgivable sin. No so-called death-bed repentance in Scripture. However, in a sense ' death ' is a get-out-of-jail-free card because if you notice Romans 6:23; Romans 6:7 that ' death ' (Not death plus anything else) is the price tag that forgivable sin pays. In other words, just as a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges No longer stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges No longer stick, thus allowing for a future resurrection to take place.

It's Not believe or get punished, but repent if you want to live forever. Repent if you do Not want to perish.
In other words, if you are wicked you will be gone forever - Psalms 92:7. The choice is ours to make.
God forces No one to serve him.