For Jews or Christians: Why Shema means what a Jew says

[nothead]

There is nothing special about anyone's ethnicity. A Jew spiritually is one InWARD, SPIRITUALLY. Metaphor. Jews ethic wise are very disciplined in vain works when they and every human being should realize that those literal works are the meaning of what is happening INSIDE of an individual where the temple of the Lord is, the human body. Jesus coming in the flesh is not literal but the spiritual conscious being resurrected inside an individual, inside the heart. Jesus goes by many different names in the Hebrew Scriptures. Every religion has their own term for it. To the Christian, it's a literal physical coming and they also wait for a mystical second coming which is false. EVERyThInG is INsIDE of a human body as are all of the scriptures talking about the human body and transformation of a man within.

I weren't sprechen of no one's ethnicity. So why you?

 

[rosends]

I did. You’re just making the same argument.

Load them up and let us see them. Strong’s 259/Echad got about 967 of them but I counted 716. The “yachid/3173” is 12. Can you tell the difference between the two words?

You keep insisting that a single mountain is a "unified one" -- while it might be part of "one mountain range" it is "one mountain."
In the 5 books, the word "echad" appears in some form 694 times, and achat, the same word, but feminine, appears 271 times. Your contention is that in each of these, the word is a unified one. So when, in Gen 42:11, the brothers tell Joseph that they are sons of "one man" they mean a "unified man"? OK. And in Ex. 10:19, when no locusts were left over, and the text says "not even one" it means "not even a unified locust." I'm not sure what a unified locust is, but ok. Numbers 15:16 must be talking about "one unified law" and 31:28 is "one unified soul". 31:30 speaks of "one drawn from 50" but that mist have been a unified "one". Deut 28:7 is talking about a road, but that must be a unified road. What's a unified road?

That's just a random sampling from the masculine construction, in the 5 books, used without prefixes like "and" (as in Lev 5:7 "one as a chatat offering AND one as an olah offering"). More and more varied uses available upon request. So please explain the "compoundness" of a road, a locust, sacrifice or a man (let alone a mountain).

 

[nothead]

Trinity is a compound of God/Father, God/Son, and God/Holy Spirit. So, everytime you say forest you think of trees, or everytime you say Acacia wood you think of the forest. The same thing if you say God/Father, or the Lord Jesus, or the Holy Spirit you think of the Trinity and vice versa and this is the meaning of the word “Echad”, a united ONE.

A united one for most trins means Gods of like kind. This makes them more POLYTHEIST than monotheist. Others don't specify what this ONE is, but of some kind of essence or electrons circling or shared diviness or something...but the fact is, all see God as a THEY and not a HE, sir. THEY being of course, not one, but plural. The Bible never says THEY however, not even the 6 alleged out of four verses in OT. Almost 11,000 verbs and pronouns in attendance to the One True God is SINGULAR, and this is by no accident, of course.

You cannot separate one from the other because it would not make sense. You cannot separate the 10C from the Book of Covenant because they are ONE/Echad united or unified law that came from God. When you speak of the 10C you are speaking of the entire Law of Moses. You should understand it, the Law of Moses, as ONE piece of law but consist of many laws.

But to give the wrong weights and measures of course will pervert these, as some will deny others down the ladder of hierarchy...to hate your blood father is allowable if to LOVE God this had to be done. To hate even your hand that sins, is to cut off that hand, if that is the only way your BEAN can figure out how to make your hand or eye NOT SIN. Et cetera.
Jesus didn't know everyone loves their hand, or eyeball? What you think he a fool or what?

You cannot say this any better. The COMPOUNDNESS of God/Father, God/Son, and God/Holy Spirit is inherent in the word “TRINITY” like the ONE/Echad forest with trees.

"God" for a Jew WAS NEVER a compound God. NO OTHER ONE means this, explicitly. Mk 12 the scribe, as ALL Jews knew Shema.

You are moving away from you own analogy. The relationship of a single forest, as ONE/ECHAD, is to the trees and not to the other forests.

Sequoia National Forest, is the same trees as the Piney Woods in Texas? Are you genius or just reaching?

You are contradicting you own analogy or analogies. A forest with trees is the same as the one of the mountains. The Andes Mountains are group of mountains or One/echad group of mountains. A FOREST with TREES is like the ANDES with MOUNTAINS. A Forest without trees and the Andes without the Mountains will not make any sense at all. Trinity without the Holy Spirit, or the Lord Jesus, or God the Father will not make any sense at all either.

God the Father is the ONLY GOD, and this was said again and again by YOUR LORD, sir. NEVER ONCE that he is God, and really NEVER ONCE that the Holy Spirit is separate from the One God. It is the Spirit OF God, sir, all the difference in the world...and beyond.[/QUOTE]

 

[nothead]

And this non sequitur rant is supposed to be relevant to what?

Em, the Pharisaical penchant for putting too much weight on the mundane laws? Yes, the question is, how many times DO YOU wash your hands, sir? They accused Jesus' own disciples of not washing.

How many times DO YOU wash your hands sir? Don't you think if you doubled it, twice as holy? Triple it, three times holy?

Quadriple, four times? How holy you wanna be, Levite?

 

[Unification]

I weren't sprechen of no one's ethnicity. So why you?

Peace to you, Nothead. Forgive me if I used one of your posts to reply to an interest of the topic on hand. I know that you weren't speaking of ethnicity.

 

[nothead]

Peace to you, Nothead. Forgive me if I used one of your posts to reply to an interest of the topic on hand. I know that you weren't speaking of ethnicity.

Nothead knows peace like a piece of pie. A grafted in dog himself, appreciates the Jew POV, though. True Jew, aspiring ones here. Including the blood ones. True Israel, true Jew. "Salvation is of the Jews," sayeth Jesus to the Samaritan woman. No mistake, he was true Jew.

 

[Unification]

Nothead knows peace like a piece of pie. A grafted in dog himself, appreciates the Jew POV, though. True Jew, aspiring ones here. Including the blood ones. True Israel, true Jew. "Salvation is of the Jews," sayeth Jesus to the Samaritan woman. No mistake, he was true Jew.

Peace to you. Scriptures aren't a historical lesson. They are spiritual.
John 4:22-26King James Version (KJV)
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Jesus is speaking INSIDE of a human. A woman (human body). . Spiritually.
The Word of God is Christ speaking within and inside an individual. The Word of God is NOT scripture.
Salvation is of the Jews indeed. A Jew is metaphorical for one Spiritually, nothing to do with ethnicity. A Jew is one who looks within and hears the voice of the living Lord in their lives.
Spiritual marriage is the union between spirit and body. Husband and wife. The human He is speaking to within certainly did not have the right husband (the Lord) .... She has had multiple husbands (an adulterer is one who spiritually is taught by man and not the Lord within). We, naturally, and carnally view marriage and adultery in the earthly form, not the spiritual form. There is no such thing as earthly marriage between literal husband male and wife female in scripture. He told me all that I did.... Upon transformation we must be made sin conscious and taught the truth about ourselves.

 

[Levite]

Em, the Pharisaical penchant for putting too much weight on the mundane laws? Yes, the question is, how many times DO YOU wash your hands, sir? They accused Jesus' own disciples of not washing.

How many times DO YOU wash your hands sir? Don't you think if you doubled it, twice as holy? Triple it, three times holy?

Quadriple, four times? How holy you wanna be, Levite?

The Christian obsession with dismissing observance as "mundane laws" (no doubt in some incomprehensible way obviated because Jesus lived or died or something) only reflects a deep misunderstanding of the point of the observance of the commandments.

Yes, one washes one's hands before eating bread, or upon waking, or at exiting the restroom (over and above the usual hygienic washing one would obviously also do at such times) not because the Rabbis have OCD, and not because they (or we) think God is excessively fond of washing. One does it as part of a system of incorporating opportunities for sanctification into every possible moment of our days.

Every small observance, from washing one's hands, to saying brachot (blessings, of which the Rabbis suggest we say 100 per day) over food, drink, and experiencing all manner of common and uncommon phenomena, to giving tzedakah (charity), to keeping kosher, to not wearing shaatnez (mixed fibers of animal and vegetable origins), and so forth-- all of these are opportunities for us to take a moment to break away from our everyday patterns of thought and action without thought, and instead to remember who and what we are, Who made us and the world around us, and to try and experience even the "mundane" facets of our lives as holy moments, lived in the presence of God.

The observance of the commandments, holistically, is not about obsession with detail or being bogged down in the material or mindlessly following laws for the sake of legalism. The observance of the commandments, holistically, is a system of spiritual discipline. Rather than being hopelessly material and mundane, it in fact is the exact opposite: an acknowledgement that even as material beings living in a mundane world, we are full of spiritual potential, and every moment of our lives-- even something as grossly ordinary as relieving oneself-- is an opportunity to see God in everything, to focus ourselves on the holy, to exalt our existence by using it as a constant series of tiny stepping stones leading to greater awareness of His existence.

Nobody can be spiritually aware and cognizant of their connection to the Divine just by deciding it. That's just not how human beings work. That's why the Christian idea that all you need is faith always seems like a joke to us. Nobody works that way. Spirituality as a practice is an art. And like any art, it demands constant practice, constant reinforcement. That's what observance is for, and that's why observance is built into even minor, everyday activities.

Feel free to keep making the same tired jibes about Pharisaic compulsiveness and over-legalism, though. They definitely haven't gotten stale over the past couple of millennia. All we take from them is the recognition that even after all this time, you don't understand Judaism at all.

 

[metis]

And let me just add that doing the Law pretty much becomes automatic after a while-- iow, it becomes part of one's lifestyle. Much is the same with following the secular laws of a country in which one may live.

 

[nothead]

Peace to you. Scriptures aren't a historical lesson. They are spiritual.
John 4:22-26King James Version (KJV)
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Jesus is speaking INSIDE of a human. A woman (human body). . Spiritually.
The Word of God is Christ speaking within and inside an individual. The Word of God is NOT scripture.
Salvation is of the Jews indeed. A Jew is metaphorical for one Spiritually, nothing to do with ethnicity. A Jew is one who looks within and hears the voice of the living Lord in their lives.
Spiritual marriage is the union between spirit and body. Husband and wife. The human He is speaking to within certainly did not have the right husband (the Lord) .... She has had multiple husbands (an adulterer is one who spiritually is taught by man and not the Lord within). We, naturally, and carnally view marriage and adultery in the earthly form, not the spiritual form. There is no such thing as earthly marriage between literal husband male and wife female in scripture. He told me all that I did.... Upon transformation we must be made sin conscious and taught the truth about ourselves.

Quasi-hippy rhetoric do not behoove me. I am somewhat surprised you even call yourself a Christian, and if you aren't one, maybe shouldn't be on a same faith debate. Jesus said to the canaanite woman, "..it is not right to feed the children's bread to the dogs." To the Samaritan woman, again: "Salvation is of (from) the Jews." Think again.

 

[nothead]

The Christian obsession with dismissing observance as "mundane laws" (no doubt in some incomprehensible way obviated because Jesus lived or died or something) only reflects a deep misunderstanding of the point of the observance of the commandments.

Yes, one washes one's hands before eating bread, or upon waking, or at exiting the restroom (over and above the usual hygienic washing one would obviously also do at such times) not because the Rabbis have OCD, and not because they (or we) think God is excessively fond of washing. One does it as part of a system of incorporating opportunities for sanctification into every possible moment of our days.

Every small observance, from washing one's hands, to saying brachot (blessings, of which the Rabbis suggest we say 100 per day) over food, drink, and experiencing all manner of common and uncommon phenomena, to giving tzedakah (charity), to keeping kosher, to not wearing shaatnez (mixed fibers of animal and vegetable origins), and so forth-- all of these are opportunities for us to take a moment to break away from our everyday patterns of thought and action without thought, and instead to remember who and what we are, Who made us and the world around us, and to try and experience even the "mundane" facets of our lives as holy moments, lived in the presence of God.

The observance of the commandments, holistically, is not about obsession with detail or being bogged down in the material or mindlessly following laws for the sake of legalism. The observance of the commandments, holistically, is a system of spiritual discipline. Rather than being hopelessly material and mundane, it in fact is the exact opposite: an acknowledgement that even as material beings living in a mundane world, we are full of spiritual potential, and every moment of our lives-- even something as grossly ordinary as relieving oneself-- is an opportunity to see God in everything, to focus ourselves on the holy, to exalt our existence by using it as a constant series of tiny stepping stones leading to greater awareness of His existence.

Nobody can be spiritually aware and cognizant of their connection to the Divine just by deciding it. That's just not how human beings work. That's why the Christian idea that all you need is faith always seems like a joke to us. Nobody works that way. Spirituality as a practice is an art. And like any art, it demands constant practice, constant reinforcement. That's what observance is for, and that's why observance is built into even minor, everyday activities.

Feel free to keep making the same tired jibes about Pharisaic compulsiveness and over-legalism, though. They definitely haven't gotten stale over the past couple of millennia. All we take from them is the recognition that even after all this time, you don't understand Judaism at all.

All Law comes from a relational, and reciprocal love of God. To say otherwise, is to be foolish for any man, especially the Jew to whom the Word of God came.

Hand washing has an indirect relationship, as per common sense. God SAID to do this, love him with all of your being. BEING the Hardest Known Law of Mankind, this end, your end of Covenant must be given the highest weight, if not for the reason that it DOES tell us the priority of God in working out His Law...and also WHERE the impetus really is. Namely in the highest place and given the highest weight. To smudge Law into it's holistic and multifarious components, and not to WEIGH these as higher or lower than another one, is too foolish to contemplate, for the ones who have Law revealed unto them...I gather you would have more than several experts in your milieu who would agree with me, and not you, sir.

 

[nothead]

And let me just add that doing the Law pretty much becomes automatic after a while-- iow, it becomes part of one's lifestyle. Much is the same with following the secular laws of a country in which one may live.

Give unto Caesar what is his due. But what is not his due is any abrogation of God's primal Law. Taxes were said to give unto him. Not our hearts and souls. Every Jew under the sun and under Roman occupation knew this. You might be smudging a most important concept, assuming secular Law and Mose's Law are mergible, and you even deny why Jews bucked against Roman authority many times.

 

[CMike]

Em, the Pharisaical penchant for putting too much weight on the mundane laws? Yes, the question is, how many times DO YOU wash your hands, sir? They accused Jesus' own disciples of not washing.

How many times DO YOU wash your hands sir? Don't you think if you doubled it, twice as holy? Triple it, three times holy?

Quadriple, four times? How holy you wanna be, Levite?

The "mudane" laws were given to the Jews by G-D.

Yanno, no Jews have asked you to follow their laws. How is it your business what laws Jews follow that G-D told them to follow.

I presume you mean by "washing hands," the spiritual washing of hands that Jews do.

 

[CMike]

The Christian obsession with dismissing observance as "mundane laws" (no doubt in some incomprehensible way obviated because Jesus lived or died or something) only reflects a deep misunderstanding of the point of the observance of the commandments.

Yes, one washes one's hands before eating bread, or upon waking, or at exiting the restroom (over and above the usual hygienic washing one would obviously also do at such times) not because the Rabbis have OCD, and not because they (or we) think God is excessively fond of washing. One does it as part of a system of incorporating opportunities for sanctification into every possible moment of our days.

Every small observance, from washing one's hands, to saying brachot (blessings, of which the Rabbis suggest we say 100 per day) over food, drink, and experiencing all manner of common and uncommon phenomena, to giving tzedakah (charity), to keeping kosher, to not wearing shaatnez (mixed fibers of animal and vegetable origins), and so forth-- all of these are opportunities for us to take a moment to break away from our everyday patterns of thought and action without thought, and instead to remember who and what we are, Who made us and the world around us, and to try and experience even the "mundane" facets of our lives as holy moments, lived in the presence of God.

The observance of the commandments, holistically, is not about obsession with detail or being bogged down in the material or mindlessly following laws for the sake of legalism. The observance of the commandments, holistically, is a system of spiritual discipline. Rather than being hopelessly material and mundane, it in fact is the exact opposite: an acknowledgement that even as material beings living in a mundane world, we are full of spiritual potential, and every moment of our lives-- even something as grossly ordinary as relieving oneself-- is an opportunity to see God in everything, to focus ourselves on the holy, to exalt our existence by using it as a constant series of tiny stepping stones leading to greater awareness of His existence.

Nobody can be spiritually aware and cognizant of their connection to the Divine just by deciding it. That's just not how human beings work. That's why the Christian idea that all you need is faith always seems like a joke to us. Nobody works that way. Spirituality as a practice is an art. And like any art, it demands constant practice, constant reinforcement. That's what observance is for, and that's why observance is built into even minor, everyday activities.

Feel free to keep making the same tired jibes about Pharisaic compulsiveness and over-legalism, though. They definitely haven't gotten stale over the past couple of millennia. All we take from them is the recognition that even after all this time, you don't understand Judaism at all.

Talk is cheap. One can howl out a hundred praises jesuses.

The test are actions.

When the Jews were given the commandments they responsed with we will do and we will understand.

Doing is more important than understanding.

Giving to charity is more important than understanding why to give to charity.

Not murdering is more important than understanding why not to murder.

Spirituality and faith is very important in Judaism.

Part of the Shema prayer is that we will love G-D with all our heart, with all out soul, and will all our resources.

However, just believing in G-D, isn't close to enough. You need to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

 

[CMike]

Give unto Caesar what is his due. But what is not his due is any abrogation of God's primal Law. Taxes were said to give unto him. Not our hearts and souls. Every Jew under the sun and under Roman occupation knew this. You might be smudging a most important concept, assuming secular Law and Mose's Law are mergible, and you even deny why Jews bucked against Roman authority many times.

They bucked against the Romans because the Romans tried to destroy Judaism.

 

[Levite]

All Law comes from a relational, and reciprocal love of God. To say otherwise, is to be foolish for any man, especially the Jew to whom the Word of God came.

Hand washing has an indirect relationship, as per common sense. God SAID to do this, love him with all of your being. BEING the Hardest Known Law of Mankind, this end, your end of Covenant must be given the highest weight, if not for the reason that it DOES tell us the priority of God in working out His Law...and also WHERE the impetus really is. Namely in the highest place and given the highest weight. To smudge Law into it's holistic and multifarious components, and not to WEIGH these as higher or lower than another one, is too foolish to contemplate, for the ones who have Law revealed unto them...I gather you would have more than several experts in your milieu who would agree with me, and not you, sir.

Yeah, I didn't think you would actually listen or understand. No surprise.

 

[CMike]

IMO it was an easier sales job to say that people didn't actually have to do anything other than accept jesus as their saviour.

However, in reality the deeds are more important than the words.

 

[CMike]

All Law comes from a relational, and reciprocal love of God. To say otherwise, is to be foolish for any man, especially the Jew to whom the Word of God came.

Hand washing has an indirect relationship, as per common sense. God SAID to do this, love him with all of your being. BEING the Hardest Known Law of Mankind, this end, your end of Covenant must be given the highest weight, if not for the reason that it DOES tell us the priority of God in working out His Law...and also WHERE the impetus really is. Namely in the highest place and given the highest weight. To smudge Law into it's holistic and multifarious components, and not to WEIGH these as higher or lower than another one, is too foolish to contemplate, for the ones who have Law revealed unto them...I gather you would have more than several experts in your milieu who would agree with me, and not you, sir.

Not really.

Jewish law came from G-D.

Whether you understand the spiritual significance of it is irrelevant to Jews.

Below is a link to some of the reasons of ritual hand washing for Jews.

Washing for Bread

 

[CMike]

All Law comes from a relational, and reciprocal love of God. To say otherwise, is to be foolish for any man, especially the Jew to whom the Word of God came.

Hand washing has an indirect relationship, as per common sense. God SAID to do this, love him with all of your being. BEING the Hardest Known Law of Mankind, this end, your end of Covenant must be given the highest weight, if not for the reason that it DOES tell us the priority of God in working out His Law...and also WHERE the impetus really is. Namely in the highest place and given the highest weight. To smudge Law into it's holistic and multifarious components, and not to WEIGH these as higher or lower than another one, is too foolish to contemplate, for the ones who have Law revealed unto them...I gather you would have more than several experts in your milieu who would agree with me, and not you, sir.

English please?

 

[CMike]

It's rather annoying how these non Jewish "experts" on Jewish law don't seek to understand what they are talking about, but just blindly and ignorantly cast judgement about Jewish law.