For non-closed minded

[TashaN]

actually i was wondering and asking about things in another thread but no one could help me so i'm trying to get some answeres in here if you don't mind.

No...it means that if you truly repent, and God knows whether you do, then you will be forgiven. If someone kills and rapes as they want, they aren't repentant.

* I'm really so confused

if you didn't do any sin for example rape so what you are repenting from?
why anyone who kills and rapes will not be repentant???

is that means there are some sins which we can consider as sins which we can repent from and some not or you mean the first repent means to repent from the sin you didn't ever knew it exist and you don't have any relationship with it which is ( original sin ) ?

how comes ? I'M CONFUSED :banghead3

God is love and love from God is so comprehenisve word that cover everybody even sinner so WHERE DO SINNER SUPPOSED TO GO IF THEY HAVE SINNED ?

No, *we* did not sacrifice our *prophet*. Our *God*, manifest in human form, *offered* his human life as sacrifice for the sins of man....and I agree. What an incredible expression of love and one I wholeheartedly accept.

Can i tell you please a logic example any human being can understand?

what is your opnion about a respectable guy and we can say for example a proffesor who suddnly while he was teaching stand over his table and started dancing ???

Will you say ... WHAT THE ???

it's the same case when you think our God made himself in human form which is unrespectable to imagine that about our creater when he made himself a toy for some jews ( his children and his creatures ) to make him suffer and crucify him and all this to make all his children ( us ) clean from sins WHICH HE CAN SIMPLY FORGIVE IT unless there is nothing such exist as a forgivness and what is the point and purpose of forgivness if he can't ((( CAN NOT ))) forgive unless he let some tiny creatures play with his body ((( AND FOR THE SAKE OF GOD DO YOU STILL THINK HE IS THE CREATER OF THE WHOLE UNIVERSE WHICH MAKES HIM GREATER THAN EVERYTHING EVEN GREATER THAN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE ))) ?????????????????????????????????????

PLEASE I HAVE NO IDEA WHY DO NOT USE OUR MIND BECAUSE IF WE JUST SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE BLINDLY I WILL JUST ANSWER ANY QUESTION COMES TO ME SAYING go and have some faith from then come back to me so i can explain for you !!!!!

I'M CONFUSED SO ANYONE HERE CAN HELP WITH WHAT I JUST POSTED IN HERE?

:help:

 

[James the Persian]

Although you could have written this more clearly, I think you've stumbled on an important point that differentiates the Orthodox view from that of most western Christians. We do not hold to the idea that Christ was sacrificed as the only price acceptable for God to forgive our sins (this is the juridical model of salvation) and we have never done so. Of course God can, and does, forgive any sin we truly repent of and He is not bound to do something such as sacrifice his Son before He can do so (this I would refer to as the deification of necessity).

In our view, Christ's entire Incarnation and not just the Crucifixion is what enabled our reconciliation with God. He divinised human nature by being Incarnate and restored mankind to our proper relationship with God which was lost in the fall. By His resurrection he showed that He had defeated the hold of sin and death over man and it is this that His death ransomed us from, not the wrath of God. This is a distinct difference in the soteriology of east and west and hopefully the eastern (Orthodox) understanding might help you in your confusion. It simply is not necessary for a Christian to believe the things you are confused by - I certainly don't.

James

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Although you could have written this more clearly, I think you've stumbled on an important point that differentiates the Orthodox view from that of most western Christians. We do not hold to the idea that Christ was sacrificed as the only price acceptable for God to forgive our sins (this is the juridical model of salvation) and we have never done so. Of course God can, and does, forgive any sin we truly repent of and He is not bound to do something such as sacrifice his Son before He can do so (this I would refer to as the deification of necessity).

In our view, Christ's entire Incarnation and not just the Crucifixion is what enabled our reconciliation with God. He divinised human nature by being Incarnate and restored mankind to our proper relationship with God which was lost in the fall. By His resurrection he showed that He had defeated the hold of sin and death over man and it is this that His death ransomed us from, not the wrath of God. This is a distinct difference in the soteriology of east and west and hopefully the eastern (Orthodox) understanding might help you in your confusion. It simply is not necessary for a Christian to believe the things you are confused by - I certainly don't.

James

I would agree with all that, and I am coming from a liberal/anglican standpoint.
True repentance always brings forgiveness.

Terry
___________________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[James the Persian]

I would agree with all that, and I am coming from a liberal/anglican standpoint.
True repentance always brings forgiveness.

Terry

I'm surprised, but pleased, that you seem to agree with eastern soteriology, though you're certainly the first Anglican I've come across who has said so (and, having been baptised in the Anglican church I know a lot of them). It is generally true that western Christians hold to a juridical model of salvation which we Orthodox do not share, but there will always be exceptions and some, indeed, seem very close to an Orthodox understanding. C.S. Lewis's writings, for instance, often sound very Orthodox though he remained an Anglican up until death - I doubt he would have done had more recent changes in the Anglican church occurred during his lifetime, but that's just personal speculation on my part.

James

 

[michel]

Well James, I am going to confuse you even more by saying that I agree with what you have said - I see nothing that I would argue over.


Maybe that is because I am a 'Fresh Christian' who is still trying to find his feet - and there are a lot of slopes out there! But I guess i am getting there, slowly.....

 

[James the Persian]

Well James, I am going to confuse you even more by saying that I agree with what you have said - I see nothing that I would argue over.


Maybe that is because I am a 'Fresh Christian' who is still trying to find his feet - and there are a lot of slopes out there! But I guess i am getting there, slowly.....

You know, Michel, I think I would recommend that you read some of C.S. Lewis's books. Mere Christianity would be a great place to start if you haven't already read it. It really is very much aimed at the Christian who wants to know what the faith is all about regardless of particular 'denominations' and he does a very good job. It was recommended to me by my priest during my catechumenate, which at the time I thought odd because Lewis was an Anglican but, with the hindsight of several years of membership in the Orthodox Church, I can now see why. It will make you think about the fundamentals of the faith without steering you towards any one church and, if anything can, that might well help you decide where you'll feel most comfortable serving God.

There. Never let it be said that I am one in favour of confrontational proselytism. I just hope that my recommendation can help you in your new (re-?) found faith in God.

James

 

[michel]

Thanks James, for your suggestion; I am no great reader - I have trouble with concentration, but I will give that book a 'go' - anything to give me 'direction'.

 

[TashaN]

This is a distinct difference in the soteriology of east and west and hopefully the eastern (Orthodox) understanding might help you in your confusion. It simply is not necessary for a Christian to believe the things you are confused by - I certainly don't.

James

That means you don't believe in the cruci-FICTION ? nice

what about Jesus as a God .. is it the same in eastern Orthodox like the others or you say that he was just a man as a Messenger of God and guidance for us?

 

[Aqualung]

if you didn't do any sin for example rape so what you are repenting from?

Everybody sins. Tha'ts not really something you need to be worrying about.

why anyone who kills and rapes will not be repentant???

I can't speak for melody, since I don't even know what thread this was in, but if someone continually just goes around killing or raping people, and doesn't really care what they are doing, then obviously you are unrepentant. REpentant means that you know that what you did was wrong and you will try to never do it again. People who go around raping and killing obviously don't feel that way.

 

[flacsmada]

First of all the original question is simple enough? You view rape and murder as these horrible sins (which they are) and don't consider other sins as equal to them. In God's eyes all sin does is separate us from him and the basis of to spend eternity with HIm you must be perfect. Therefore, on that level a sin IS a sin, whether its stealing a cookie out of the cookie jar or killing someone.(let me say again on that level) So one of the reason's Jesus Christ is so important to us is that when He comes into our lives and washes us once and for all of all sins we are clean forever in GOd's sight and already are a resident of the Kingdom of Heaven. Paul uses the term forgiveness always in past tense because he believed which i take as truth that once Christ has brought us a new into Him that it is a once and for all thing, so we can then rejoice and repent because our sins our forgiven. I hope this helped

 

[Halcyon]

First of all the original question is simple enough? You view rape and murder as these horrible sins (which they are) and don't consider other sins as equal to them. In God's eyes all sin does is separate us from him and the basis of to spend eternity with HIm you must be perfect. Therefore, on that level a sin IS a sin, whether its stealing a cookie out of the cookie jar or killing someone.(let me say again on that level) So one of the reason's Jesus Christ is so important to us is that when He comes into our lives and washes us once and for all of all sins we are clean forever in GOd's sight and already are a resident of the Kingdom of Heaven. Paul uses the term forgiveness always in past tense because he believed which i take as truth that once Christ has brought us a new into Him that it is a once and for all thing, so we can then rejoice and repent because our sins our forgiven. I hope this helped

That makes no sense. You're saying that Christ washes away sins and makes us forever clean, if that were so Christians would be running around stealing and killing without fear of Yahweh's vengence.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

That makes no sense. You're saying that Christ washes away sins and makes us forever clean, if that were so Christians would be running around stealing and killing without fear of Yahweh's vengence.

I agree with you there, To say your sins are washed away for ever, is saying you can no longer sin. Which is visibly not true. We all Sin.

Christ left us with the possibility of having our sins forgiven, provided we truly repented. Which is a quite different thing. I certainly requires participation on our part.

Terry
________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[michel]

I agree with you there, To say your sins are washed away for ever, is saying you can no longer sin. Which is visibly not true. We all Sin.

Christ left us with the possibility of having our sins forgiven, provided we truly repented. Which is a quite different thing. I certainly requires participation on our part.

Terry
________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

So, how does one repent ? To say" 'sorry';I'm ok I'm forgiven" is obviously not repentance - but what if even though we try, we keep repeating the sin? - despite trying hard not to?

 

[cturne]

So, how does one repent ? To say" 'sorry';I'm ok I'm forgiven" is obviously not repentance - but what if even though we try, we keep repeating the sin? - despite trying hard not to?

We all struggle with our own 'demons' - if one is truly repentant, one is forgiven. It is human nature to sin, and impossible to be perfect. That is why we must ask God's forgiveness - AND believe that God send his only Son Jesus Christ to pay for the sins of mankind by living a perfect life, suffering and dying on the cross and declaring triumph over sin, death and the power of the devil by rising again.

 

[michel]

We all struggle with our own 'demons' - if one is truly repentant, one is forgiven. It is human nature to sin, and impossible to be perfect. That is why we must ask God's forgiveness - AND believe that God send his only Son Jesus Christ to pay for the sins of mankind by living a perfect life, suffering and dying on the cross and declaring triumph over sin, death and the power of the devil by rising again.

How do you repent?

 

[cturne]

How do you repent?

I simply ask God to forgive me for my sins - those which I have knowingly and unknowingly committed - I pray regularly and always include a request for forgiveness, and I take part in the Sacrament of Communion - which imparts forgiveness of sins, in the Lutheran faith.

 

[michel]

I simply ask God to forgive me for my sins - those which I have knowingly and unknowingly committed - I pray regularly and always include a request for forgiveness, and I take part in the Sacrament of Communion - which imparts forgiveness of sins, in the Lutheran faith.

Thanks, it may have sounded an absurdly silly question, but I really needed to know.

 

[cturne]

You are welcome - and it is not a silly question! I am more than happy to share my beliefs.

 

[James the Persian]

That means you don't believe in the cruci-FICTION ? nice

what about Jesus as a God .. is it the same in eastern Orthodox like the others or you say that he was just a man as a Messenger of God and guidance for us?

We do believe in the Crucifixion (how did you manage to read that we didn't into my post?) but we do not assign the same significance to it as is commonly done in western Christianity. We do not believe that it was a sacrifice to God to save us from His wrath, but a self-sacrifice of God Incarnate that defeated the hold of sin and death over us. That last part also answers your question as to whether we believe Christ is God - we do.

James

 

[TashaN]

i guess i will answer you just directly from your post so you may understand what YOU already typed in here because simply you are contradicting yourself.

It is human nature to sin, and impossible to be perfect.

* here you said that impossible for a human being to be perfect right?

AND believe that God send his only Son Jesus Christ to pay for the sins of mankind

* Then, if we sin by nature so what is the benfit to push Jesus Christ for our salvation if we already sinned in the next day he crucified?


Quick tip: take a deep breath and think about it for minutes before you answer.