For the religious out there

[sparc872]

I found this article the other day and I think it demonstrates in a pretty clear way one of the reasons why I reject religion. I am asking those of you who have religious beliefs to at least read this and give some responses to it.


Click Here

Thanks guys, have a good one

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Are you asking 'religious' people, or 'spiritual' people? The link focuses on a very specific type of belief system, one that only fits the 'religious' if one generalizes them into that belief system.

 

[Draka]

I found this article the other day and I think it demonstrates in a pretty clear way one of the reasons why I reject religion. I am asking those of you who have religious beliefs to at least read this and give some responses to it.


Click Here

Thanks guys, have a good one

That only debates Christianity in general. It relays the fact that it is a mythology. What's your point? You say it is one of the reasons you reject religion though. It seems to be a rejection of Christianity, not a rejection of all spiritual paths. There are many paths out there that that wouldn't even touch.

There's my response.

 

[Karl R]

I found this article the other day and I think it demonstrates in a pretty clear way one of the reasons why I reject religion.

One part of the article stood out for me....

In your mind, you are already coming up with a thousand rationalizations to explain why Jesus did not answer your prayers:

• It is not his will
• He doesn't have time
• I didn't pray the right way
• I am not worthy
• I do not have enough faith
• I cannot test the Lord like this
• It is not part of Jesus' plan for me
• And on and on and on...

One rationalization that you may find yourself developing is particularly interesting. You may say to yourself: “Well, of course Jesus doesn’t answer me when I pray about a coin toss, because it is too trivial."

I once asked god to do the impossible, and god did it. Should I consider my belief in god to be equally absurd as a belief in Santa Claus?

I can understand your disbelief, and I respect that.

Similarly, I would appreciate it (though I do not expect it) if you would consider the possibility that my life experiences are completely different than yours. That I might have experienced something that makes my beliefs seem a bit more plausible to me than they do to you.

 

[Katzpur]

I found this article the other day and I think it demonstrates in a pretty clear way one of the reasons why I reject religion. I am asking those of you who have religious beliefs to at least read this and give some responses to it.


Click Here

Thanks guys, have a good one

Sparc,

I'm not really sure how to respond. I tried reading the article with an open mind, even when I realized that people who believe in Mormonism were being compared to people who believe in Santa Clause.

If you meet a Mormon and ask them about this story, they can spend hours talking to you about it. They can answer every question you have. Yet the 5.99 billion of us who are not Mormons can see with total clarity that the Mormons are delusional. It is as simple as that. You and I both know with 100% certainty that the Mormon story is no different from the story of Santa. And we are correct in our assessment. The invalidating evidence is voluminous.

Delusional? Well, as an atheist, you obviously think anyone who believes in God is delusional. Are the Mormons even more delusional than other theists?

The fact is, most religions look silly to people who don't believe in them. But to assume that no intelligent person could possibly believe in such nonsense (which is clearly what the author was saying) is not only insulting to those of us who do, but is patently inaccurate. There are a great many highly intelligent people who do believe that what Joseph Smith said happened to him actually did happen, just as there are also a great many unintelligent people who also happen to believe it. And it's the same with any religion. St. Augustine wasn't stupic. Thomas Aquinas wasn't stupid. Calvin and Luther weren't stupid. Any time you're looking at a religious tradition that has a fairly large number of adherents (and 12 million, while not an enormous number, is fairly substantial), you have to admit that there must be something about it to appeal to that many people. Mormonism, for example, has a 175-year track record which, given the persecution it has endured (and you probably don't know the half of it -- most people don't), is really pretty remarkable. It appeals to a huge cross section of people -- bright, well-educated people, stupid and uneducated people, rich people, poor people, Caucasians, Hispanics, Blacks, men and women of vastly difficult cultures and backgrounds. To simply state that all of these people are delusional is pure nonsense in the light of this evidence to the contrary. For anyone to simply describe Mormonism or any other religion as a fairy tale says a whole lot more about that person's intelligence, in my opinion, than it does about those who believe the doctrine.

I'm wasn't impressed with the article in the slightest.

 

[Comet]

I found this article the other day and I think it demonstrates in a pretty clear way one of the reasons why I reject religion. I am asking those of you who have religious beliefs to at least read this and give some responses to it.


Click Here

Thanks guys, have a good one

*smiles* You seem to remind me of myself a few years ago. I denounced Christianity a long time ago. Yet, I found that all religions are not like that. There are many and though I take some of everyone to heart, I am not "religious" by what some think that term means. I am "spiritual" very much so though.

Don't be so convinced of anything till you explore AT LEAST 3 OPTIONS, for once you see the 3rd..... the possibilities are endless! If you are Atheist, then know so why and have faith in that. Don't generalize people, nor religion though
Faith and tolerance seem to go hand in hand if you truly understand them

 

[lasthope]

I think the whole santa reference just throws that whole article off. I know there is no santa because because I have kids. I know that my wife and I hold my kids delusion of santa real. I am not knowledgable about other faiths except mine. Therefore I can't consider the stories of how other faiths were started as being delusions. I do appreciate the little background stories on the other two faiths that were in that article. That is one of the reasons I joined this forum. So I could become more knowledgable about different religions and faiths.

 

[sparc872]

I am sorry if I offended a couple of you. Especially Becky. That was not the point that I was trying to get across. The reason why I reject religion is not that I think you are delusional, it is that I can see no more compelling reasons to believe in any religion that has a belief in something supernatural than I can see a reason to believe in Santa Claus.

This was NOT meant to be an attack on anyones personal beliefs. Rather, it was a way of expressing one of the main reasons for my rejection of religion, particularly Christianity; a reason that has caused me a lot of angst in the past.

Once again, I am sorry if I offended any of you

 

[sparc872]

I once asked god to do the impossible, and god did it. Should I consider my belief in god to be equally absurd as a belief in Santa Claus?

I can understand your disbelief, and I respect that.

Similarly, I would appreciate it (though I do not expect it) if you would consider the possibility that my life experiences are completely different than yours. That I might have experienced something that makes my beliefs seem a bit more plausible to me than they do to you.

I do understand that there are people such as yourself that have been provided with compelling evidence for their faith. If God performed the impossible for you, then I am glad to hear that.

 

[michel]

People seem to have strange expectations from God.

I think that is one of the things that puts most off believing in him. "I wouldn't have had an accident if there really was a God.............."

We lead our lives free from his interference; if he did interfere, it would invalidate our being born on Earth.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

I read it, and it demonstrated pretty clearly why I reject the atheist way of thinking. Most people who reject God have this childish expectation that God is a 'genie in a bottle' who is supposed to grant their every wish and cure every ill in the world. Then when He doesn't 'step and fetch' the way they expect him to, they reject God and religion and hang out the atheist sign.

As for the article itself, anyone who would refer to followers of a given faith as delusional can only be described as bitter, insensitive, and uneducated. Perhaps at some point in the future, this author will have the chance to have more life experiences and understand more about religion before he inflicts another steaming pile of you-know-what upon the internet again.

If this article represents a thought process into which you claim to buy, then you might want to get out a bit more and actually talk to people of faith. Once you broaden your mind a bit, and study the long rich history of different faiths, you'll better be able to understand why people believe what they believe.

No offence intended, but you did ask for responses.

 

[jewscout]

I read it, and it demonstrated pretty clearly why I reject the atheist way of thinking. Most people who reject God have this childish expectation that God is a 'genie in a bottle' who is supposed to grant their every wish and cure every ill in the world. Then when He doesn't 'step and fetch' the way they expect him to, they reject God and religion and hang out the atheist sign.

As for the article itself, anyone who would refer to followers of a given faith as delusional can only be described as bitter, insensitive, and uneducated. Perhaps at some point in the future, this author will have the chance to have more life experiences and understand more about religion before he inflicts another steaming pile of you-know-what upon the internet again.

If this article represents a thought process into which you claim to buy, then you might want to get out a bit more and actually talk to people of faith. Once you broaden your mind a bit, and study the long rich history of different faiths, you'll better be able to understand why people believe what they believe.

No offence intended, but you did ask for responses.

:clap here here

as has been pointed out, this article really deals specifically w/ christianity...i do not see how it applies to me as the opening premise is that i would try to convert you...which i won't.

as long as you are a good person who treats others with consideration and respect...what do i care? i'm not trying to save you from anything.

 

[Bishka]

I agree with Kathryn. I don't like my faith in particular being compared to a belief in Santa Claus, it's hurtful.

I don't take this article at all seriously because

1) The reference to Santa Claus
2) My religion being singled out in particular

Also, why doesn't God heal amputees, why should He? God isn't going to force Himself upon anyone, and guess what, that may be that certain persons trial in life.

 

[Faint]

I like the Santa Clause comparison, actually. And when I was a kid I believed in old St. Nick. It was fun for a time. But some things you grow out of.

The arguement is valid. Religion/spirituality...same diff. It all boils down to "I have faith in that which is not logical." I recognize these things make sense on some level to a lot of the religious/spiritual here, but just because you're convinced the Invisible Pink Unicorn watches over you doesn't mean you're not deluding yourself. Those of us outside the "bubble" as the article puts it look in with curiousity. And, if we've learned to accept that some people don't know as much as us yet...with sympathy.

 

[Bishka]

Those of us outside the "bubble" as the article puts it look in with curiousity. And, if we've learned to accept that some people don't know as much as us yet...with sympathy.

And those of us inside the bubble look out with sympathy on all that you are missing.

 

[Quiddity]

I like the Santa Clause comparison, actually. And when I was a kid I believed in old St. Nick. It was fun for a time. But some things you grow out of.

The arguement is valid. Religion/spirituality...same diff. It all boils down to "I have faith in that which is not logical." I recognize these things make sense on some level to a lot of the religious/spiritual here, but just because you're convinced the Invisible Pink Unicorn watches over you doesn't mean you're not deluding yourself. Those of us outside the "bubble" as the article puts it look in with curiousity. And, if we've learned to accept that some people don't know as much as us yet...with sympathy.

LOL.....really?
Tell me about pink unicorns?

 

[Smoke]

Delusional? Well, as an atheist, you obviously think anyone who believes in God is delusional. Are the Mormons even more delusional than other theists?

I think the author's point was exactly the opposite: that the reader's particular theism makes no more sense than Mormonism. S/he's relying on the average non-Mormon's view of Mormonism as delusional, and asking the reader to consider the likelihood that his own religion is equally delusional.

The fact is, most religions look silly to people who don't believe in them.

Exactly.

But to assume that no intelligent person could possibly believe in such nonsense (which is clearly what the author was saying) is not only insulting to those of us who do, but is patently inaccurate.

I don't think that's what the author is saying at all. The piece relies on the intelligence of the reader to connect the dots, and to see that the myth he has become accustomed to is no more likely to be factual that the myths other people have become accustomed to. He's challenging people to examine their irrational beliefs, and assuming that they have enough intelligence to do so.

 

[Arrow]

Everyone writes with a bias and the fact that the guy claimed that he was unbiased proves what the Captain was saying.
The funny thing is that most atheist views branch off religions. For instance, the ten commandments make perfect sense and it is one of the basics of Christianity. Also, he claims that the Bible is irrelevant, however, it has been proven to be one of the most accurate historical documents proven by archeological digs.
He also claims the writers are bogus. However, the Bible is a collection of writings of over thousands of years possibly billions, yet each writer writes about the same topic and somehow manages not to preach something differently. As far as the OT and NT go, the NT fulfills the OT.
I do not know much about other religions, but i am sure that they too have their own rational thoughts that would lead them to believe in whatever they believe. If it was not really rational, it would probably not work and if it did not work no one would really believe it. In every religion there has to be some piece of truth in it.
Clearly the author did not know what he was talking about.

 

[Polaris]

Imagine that I tell you the following story:
- A long time ago in a galaxy far far away...
- There was a big bang.
- Our universe was born.
- As chance would have it, a solar system was formed in which earth was conveniently positioned.
- So conveniently in fact that it was conducive to the sustaining of life.
- Not only did it develop a livable atmosphere with just the right mix of oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, etc; it also happened to be at just the right distance from the sun so as to provide comfortable temperatures.
- Anything can happen if you role the dice enough.
- One day, out of the blue, a living organism was formed on this charmed planet.
- That organism even found ways to multiply and thrive in its environment.
- Then one day something happened, one of the organisms mutated into a completely different suvivable organism.
- This happened over and over until a whole kingdom of plant and animal life came into being.
- Certain animals were even fortunate enough to have mutated into intelligent beings, even capable of living by reason instead of instinct.
- These lifeforms had mutated into beings with a complex nervous system, circulatory system, respriatory system, digestive system, all acting independendtly, yet markedly dependent on each other at the same time.
- The brain that had developed was truly a natural marvel, not to mention the intricate and precise way in which it communicated with and directed all other parts of the body.
- Anything can happen if you role the dice enough.
- Life roles forward, without any particular purpose, controlled by mere chance and shake of the genetic dice.
- Elves and flying reindeer are inevitable... its just a matter of time.
- Anything can happen if you role the dice enough.

Maybe a belief in God and Christianity isn't so far fetched afterall. But what do I know... I'm just a delusional Mormon.

 

[evearael]

as long as you are a good person who treats others with consideration and respect...what do i care? i'm not trying to save you from anything.

I tend to agree with Jewscout... I don't care if you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and run around in a pirate suit to combat global warming as long as you are a good person. I would also note that not everyone takes their scripture literally, since many of the arguements seem directed at those who do.