For Torath Mosheh Jews Only: Who is Hashem?

[David Davidovich]

Oh wow... I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. But now I'm trying to figure out if I should use @Ehav4Ever's long cricket video from this post...

or if I should say that I didn't know that @Ehav4Ever was this forum's Torath Mosheh and Orthodox Jewish protector. But I think that I'll go with the latter.

Because I had no idea that the conversation would dry up after @Ehav4Ever left the conversation as if without him, other TMJs (if there are any others) and Orthodox Jews couldn't answer my questions anymore. But perhaps it's for the better. Because after everything was said and done, I've come to the conclusion that Torath Mosheh Jews are just another denomination of Jews, just like any other denomination of Jews. But the only difference is that similar to Jehovah's Witnesses sincerely believing that they are the true Chrisitan religion among numerous Christian religions, the TMJs also believe they are the true Jewish culture among numerous Jewish denominations among Judaism.

But one of the things that contributed to me in suspecting this, was what appeared to me as the continuous evasion of some rather straight forward questions. Because anyone can 'summarize' just about anything and then give you links to articles for more details for better understanding, but when the answers started to become getting 4 or 5 links to long articles to answer a basic question, I came to realize that something was wrong.

However, I would say that the most telling part was the lack of answers and valid answers in regard to asking a simple question as to why there is Avodah Zarah in the Hebrew text. Plus, with all the so-called dictated writings from Hashem by all the scribes and Rabbis, etc., alongside the Torah (and perhaps other Hebrew texts?), it's hard to see how with so many things that are written and discussed by these scribes and Rabbis,etc., that this particular topic has no ancient writings about it.

But to top it all off is how no one else feels as if they can answer questions about Torath Mosheh or Orthodox Judaism without the protective backup of @Ehav4Ever. Therefore, if I have anymore questions about the Jewish religion, they won't be addressed to Torath Mosheh Jews only.

P.S. And by the way, if anyone knows IndigoChild5559, let her know that I no longer think that Torath Mosheh Jews are 'special.' Because she cannot see my posts because she has me on Ignore. Thank you.

 

[dybmh]

Oh wow... I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. But now I'm trying to figure out if I should use @Ehav4Ever's long cricket video from this post...

or if I should say that I didn't know that @Ehav4Ever was this forum's Torath Mosheh and Orthodox Jewish protector. But I think that I'll go with the latter.

It's definitely not all that.

Because I had no idea that the conversation would dry up after @Ehav4Ever left the conversation as if without him, other TMJs (if there are any others) and Orthodox Jews couldn't answer my questions anymore. But perhaps it's for the better. Because after everything was said and done, I've come to the conclusion that Torath Mosheh Jews are just another denomination of Jews, just like any other denomination of Jews. But the only difference is that similar to Jehovah's Witnesses sincerely believing that they are the true Chrisitan religion among numerous Christian religions, the TMJs also believe they are the true Jewish culture among numerous Jewish denominations among Judaism.

I think the convo dried up because the original topic has been exhausted. TMJ is not a denomination, it's a description of the Torah itself which is being rebranded by an individual. Just 1 person.

But one of the things that contributed to me in suspecting this, was what appeared to me as the continuous evasion of some rather straight forward questions. Because anyone can 'summarize' just about anything and then give you links to articles for more details for better understanding, but when the answers started to become getting 4 or 5 links to long articles to answer a basic question, I came to realize that something was wrong.

I understand what you're saying. The frustration is natural. But I would not describe your questions as basic.

However, I would say that the most telling part was the lack of answers and valid answers in regard to asking a simple question as to why there is Avodah Zarah in the Hebrew text. Plus, with all the so-called dictated writings from Hashem by all the scribes and Rabbis, etc., alongside the Torah (and perhaps other Hebrew texts?), it's hard to see how with so many things that are written and discussed by these scribes and Rabbis,etc., that this particular topic has no ancient writings about it.

Is there are thread on this question?

But to top it all off is how no one else feels as if they can answer questions about Torath Mosheh or Orthodox Judaism without the protective backup of @Ehav4Ever. Therefore, if I have anymore questions about the Jewish religion, they won't be addressed to Torath Mosheh Jews only.

This is how I feel. I feel like part of you geniunely questions and wants answers, but that's not all that's going on. For example, you asked a question in another thread about the human hand, and how that is in the image of God. But, the way you phrased the question made me feel like, you didn't really want the answer, and you wouldn't appreciate what I had to say. So, I didn't answer it. I think each question, each thread, is going to be like that. It has nothing to do with one person's seal of approval, or backup, or whatever it is you think is happening. It's just a case by case, question-by-question assessment of whether or not we have something of value to offer. We all enjoy writing about these topics, or we wouldn't be here.

P.S. And by the way, if anyone knows IndigoChild5559, let her know that I no longer think that Torath Mosheh Jews are 'special.' Because she cannot see my posts because she has me on Ignore. Thank you.

I'm guessing that she doesn't officially have you on ignore. I encourage you to keep asking questions. If there are issues that did not get addressed in this thread, please start new ones.

 

[David Davidovich]

I think the convo dried up because the original topic has been exhausted. TMJ is not a denomination, it's a description of the Torah itself which is being rebranded by an individual. Just 1 person.

It is? I had thought that there were other Jews who identified themselves as Torath Moseth Jews and not just one person... However, that does explain a lot though.

I understand what you're saying. The frustration is natural. But I would not describe your questions as basic.

Well, perhaps you're right. Because I had to go back into the thread to see what that part of the conversation was all about, and it looks like it started in post #254(link) where I was asking about what was said in Psalm 51:3-5 and the concept of inherited sin and got somewhat sidetracked with being told that the question had already been answered, and that's when I asked what I thought was the logical and valid question of: "why is it that we grow old and die and get sick along the way as well as some people being born with defects, deformities, and diseases?" And that's when post #266(link) was thrown into my lap with the 3 links with the 3 long articles. And the verse about Daniel 12:2 was stuck in there in between in post #262(link). However, the main questions were actually the ones asked prior to that.

Is there are thread on this question?

Yes, it's embedded in the bold blue font in: asking a simple question as to why there is Avodah Zarah in the Hebrew text.

This is how I feel. I feel like part of you geniunely questions and wants answers, but that's not all that's going on. For example, you asked a question in another thread about the human hand, and how that is in the image of God. But, the way you phrased the question made me feel like, you didn't really want the answer, and you wouldn't appreciate what I had to say. So, I didn't answer it.

Could you show me which discussion you are talking about? Because I do not remember that.

I think each question, each thread, is going to be like that. It has nothing to do with one person's seal of approval, or backup, or whatever it is you think is happening. It's just a case by case, question-by-question assessment of whether or not we have something of value to offer. We all enjoy writing about these topics, or we wouldn't be here.

Right.

I'm guessing that she doesn't officially have you on ignore. I encourage you to keep asking questions. If there are issues that did not get addressed in this thread, please start new ones.

Um, yes... She has me on ignore and I can't really say anything more than that.

Edited to add thread link.

 

[David Davidovich]

David Davidovich said:
However, I would say that the most telling part was the lack of answers and valid answers in regard to asking a simple question as to why there is Avodah Zarah in the Hebrew text. Plus, with all the so-called dictated writings from Hashem by all the scribes and Rabbis, etc., alongside the Torah (and perhaps other Hebrew texts?), it's hard to see how with so many things that are written and discussed by these scribes and Rabbis,etc., that this particular topic has no ancient writings about it.

Is there are thread on this question?

Yes, it's embedded in the bold blue font in: asking a simple question as to why there is Avodah Zarah in the Hebrew text.

 

[dybmh]

So, is there a reason why Adam and Eve didn't do this? Especially in light of Genesis 4:1 where Eve sounds as if she's still all lovey dovey with Hashem.

Because if she was so estranged from Hashem, she didn't have to say all that.

The way I understand it is the Adam and Eve story is a special case. Simply put, they confessed, God forgave them, but there were still consequences.

Also, what about Psalm 51:3-5 and what are the accurate Hebrew words that should be used in those verses

What's happening in Psalm 51 is a method for repentence pre-temple.

and why did Adam and Eve have such a murderous jerk of a son such as Cain?

That's a good question. The Talmud indicates that something was passed to Eve from the serpent. It's usually described as a moral defilement.

And why is it that we grow old and die and get sick along the way as well as some people being born with defects, deformities, and diseases?

I honestly don't know. I can only speculate. For children who die young ( pre-teen ), there's an idea that they are extremely lofty souls. For others, I think they are here to inspire the rest of us and get rewarded greatly later for their sacrifice.

 

[David Davidovich]

The way I understand it is the Adam and Eve story is a special case. Simply put, they confessed, God forgave them, but there were still consequences.

To them or to their children and to the rest of their descendants?

What's happening in Psalm 51 is a method for repentence pre-temple.

Okay, but I have no idea what that means.

That's a good question. The Talmud indicates that something was passed to Eve from the serpent. It's usually described as a moral defilement.

Genetically?

I honestly don't know.

Apparently, neither did @Ehav4Ever. And perhaps that's why it seemed as if he evaded that question.

I can only speculate. For children who die young ( pre-teen ), there's an idea that they are extremely lofty souls. For others, I think they are here to inspire the rest of us and get rewarded greatly later for their sacrifice.

No, you don't have to get into all that stuff. I'm just simply looking for the reason why humans in general grow old and die and get sick along the way some people are born with defects, deformities, and diseases. But according to @Ehav4Ever, all the problems and imperfections in the world are because of not following the Torah and the 7 mitovahs or whatever they're called.

 

[David Davidovich]

What's happening in Psalm 51 is a method for repentence pre-temple.

Repentance for what? And why was it so easy for David to do what he did where he had to repent? Also, why did the nation Israel have to offer burnt sacrifices to Hashem on a regular basis if humans were not in a sinful state? Because the ancient Jews had the Torah, therefore, what's going to be the difference between them not following it back then, and them (supposedly being able to?) follow it in the bright future of the olam ha-ba? Because it doesn't make sense. And I'm not looking for some long complicated and seemingly diversionary answer to what I think is a straightforward question.

 

[dybmh]

Could you show me which discussion you are talking about? Because I do not remember that

Okay, thanks. But I still would like to know from an apologist why apes are so similar to God's crowning achievement. I mean, why hands?

 

[dybmh]

To them or to their children and to the rest of their descendants?

All three. There's a disagreement in the Talmud about how long the effect of the serpent lasted. Some say for 3 generations. Some say until Sinai. As I said it's mysterious. I'm still trying to figure it out.

Okay, but I have no idea what that means.

I remember reading about it somewhere. I'll see what I can find.

Genetically?

They wouldn't have described it as genetics, of course. If we go strictly by the text, two things happened in the garden. The serpent spoke and incepted an idea into Eve's mind, and she ate from the tree-of-knowledge-of-good-and-evil. This indicates an intellectual defilement which could be passed also by speaking. However, there is another idea which expands the story to include a physical encounter between Eve and the serpent. Adam was with Eve at the end of Gen 2, the serpent sees this and desires her and waits till she is alone and takes her. Able is from Adam, Cain is from the serpent... physically. The idea of intellectual defilement is older, and it seems to be the majority view. The physical defilement seems to have deveoped over time, is later, and seems to be the minority view.

No, you don't have to get into all that stuff. I'm just simply looking for the reason why humans in general grow old and die and get sick along the way some people are born with defects, deformities, and diseases.

OK. My vote: the general reason for death and dying and deformities and diseases and all the things that are bad, evil, and unpleasant in this world is God wanted to see that it, creation, was very good. Not just regular good, but very good. If creation only contained life and light and perfect bodies and perfect minds that would be good. If creation includes those good things and also death, and dying, and disease, and evil and people were granted the tools to convert those things into good, that is better, that is very good. ( Gen 1:31 )

But according to @Ehav4Ever, all the problems and imperfections in the world are because of not following the Torah and the 7 mitovahs or whatever they're called.

I'll go back and see if I can decode what was being said.

 

[dybmh]

Repentance for what?

The situation with Bathsheba. That's right at the beginning of the Psalm.

And why was it so easy for David to do what he did where he had to repent?

He's known as a master of repentence. I need to review the topic further before commenting much.

Also, why did the nation Israel have to offer burnt sacrifices to Hashem on a regular basis if humans were not in a sinful state?

In some ways, it was proactive, in some ways it was reactive. The offerings are complicated.

Because the ancient Jews had the Torah, therefore, what's going to be the difference between them not following it back then, and them (supposedly being able to?) follow it in the bright future of the olam ha-ba? Because it doesn't make sense. And I'm not looking for some long complicated and seemingly diversionary answer to what I think is a straightforward question.

The evil inclination will be either annihilated, contained, or continuously occupied.

 

[dybmh]

Okay, but I have no idea what that means

It's not too complicated. In Psalm 51 David has distanced himself from God and is trying to resestablish that connection. One way to do that is through a broken and crushed heart. If person can successfully break their own heart, they in essence become a new person, and they get a fresh start.

 

[dybmh]

I'm just simply looking for the reason why humans in general grow old and die and get sick along the way some people are born with defects, deformities, and diseases. But according to @Ehav4Ever, all the problems and imperfections in the world are because of not following the Torah and the 7 mitovahs or whatever they're called.

OK. First thing: if you are frustrated that is justified and understandable. You asked about defects, deformities, etc.. I went through and reviewed, you were sent on a wild a goose chase, a fool's errand. And that is insulting.

That said, this is how I understand what was being said about following the Torah and the 7 mitzvot. Given that people grow old and die and get sick along the way, given that people are born with defects, deformities, and diseases, Jewish people can best cope and adapt and rise above these challenges by following Torah, and non Jewish people can best cope and adapt and rise above these challenges by following the 7 mitzvot.

That was what was said about it. Not following the rules isn't causing the death, defects, deformities, etc... Following them won't magically fix the problems, nor is it that following them, magically, in the past, would have prevented them. That was not said, nor intended. I'm quite sure because that is not rational. But, misunderstanding what was meant is perfectly rational based on what was said, based on the non-answers you rec'd.

 

[David Davidovich]

David Davidovich said:
Okay, thanks. But I still would like to know from an apologist why apes are so similar to God's crowning achievement. I mean, why hands?

Actually, now I'm intrigued. I would love to know your answer to that question.

 

[David Davidovich]

All three. There's a disagreement in the Talmud about how long the effect of the serpent lasted. Some say for 3 generations. Some say until Sinai. As I said it's mysterious. I'm still trying to figure it out.

Well, what exactly is the serpent to Jews? Because I know it's not Satan as it is to Christians.

They wouldn't have described it as genetics, of course. If we go strictly by the text, two things happened in the garden. The serpent spoke and incepted an idea into Eve's mind, and she ate from the tree-of-knowledge-of-good-and-evil. This indicates an intellectual defilement which could be passed also by speaking. However, there is another idea which expands the story to include a physical encounter between Eve and the serpent. Adam was with Eve at the end of Gen 2, the serpent sees this and desires her and waits till she is alone and takes her. Able is from Adam, Cain is from the serpent... physically. The idea of intellectual defilement is older, and it seems to be the majority view. The physical defilement seems to have deveoped over time, is later, and seems to be the minority view.

Well, according to an article that I quoted in another post, it says:

In Judaism, yetzer hara (Hebrew: יֵצֶר הַרַע yēṣer haraʿ) is the congenital inclination to do evil, by violating the will of God. The term is drawn from the phrase "the imagination of the heart of man [is] evil" (יֵצֶר לֵב הָאָדָם רַע‎, yetzer lev-ha-adam ra), which occurs twice at the beginning of the Torah (Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 8:21).

The Hebrew word "yetzer" having appeared twice in Genesis occurs again at the end of the Torah: "I knew their devisings that they do".[1] Thus from beginning to end the heart's "yetzer" (plan) is continually bent on evil. However, the Torah which began with blessing [2] anticipates future blessing [3] which will come as a result of God circumcising the heart in the latter days.[4]

>>>Yetzer hara

OK. My vote: the general reason for death and dying and deformities and diseases and all the things that are bad, evil, and unpleasant in this world is God wanted to see that it, creation, was very good. Not just regular good, but very good. If creation only contained life and light and perfect bodies and perfect minds that would be good. If creation includes those good things and also death, and dying, and disease, and evil and people were granted the tools to convert those things into good, that is better, that is very good. ( Gen 1:31 )

Well, I know that this is not a debate, but I've seen where in debates, atheists and skeptics use those same reasons to explain how God is the one who set up evil in the world, and if what you're saying in your answer is true, then you are confirming their same reasoning.
Isaiah 45:7

7Who forms light and creates darkness, Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Who makes all these.

זיוֹצֵ֥ר אוֹר֙ וּבוֹרֵ֣א חֹ֔שֶׁךְ עֹשֶׂ֥ה שָׁל֖וֹם וּב֣וֹרֵא רָ֑ע אֲנִ֥י יְהֹוָ֖ה עֹשֶׂ֥ה כָל־אֵֽלֶּה:

 

[David Davidovich]

The situation with Bathsheba. That's right at the beginning of the Psalm.

Actually, I meant repentance in general since I have been told that Jews don't believe in the concept of humans being in a sinful state.

He's known as a master of repentence. I need to review the topic further before commenting much.

Okay, I'm looking forward to that. Because I would like to know why this non-sinful, great king and great Torah keeper had to keep repenting for disobeying the Torah. I mean, what's wrong with obeying the Torah?

In some ways, it was proactive, in some ways it was reactive. The offerings are complicated.

Well, this is what I looked up:

There are three basic concepts underlying qorbanot: giving, substitution and coming closer.

The first the aspect of giving. A qorban requires the renunciation of something that belongs to the person making the offering. Thus, sacrifices are made from domestic animals, not wild animals (because wild animals do not belong to anyone). Likewise, offerings of food are ordinarily in the form of flour or meal, which requires substantial work to prepare.

Another important concept is the element of substitution. The idea is that the thing being offered is a substitute for the person making the offering, and the things that are done to the offering are things that should have been done to the person offering. The offering is in some sense "punished" in place of the offerer. It is interesting to note that whenever the subject of qorbanot is addressed in the Torah, the name of G-d used is the four-letter name indicating G-d's mercy.

The third important concept is the idea coming closer. The essence of sacrifice is to bring a person closer to G-d.

The second one above sounds a bit "Christian" to me. Also, is the Tetragrammaton "the four-letter name" that is being referred to? Because I thought that Jews weren't supposed to use that.

Contrary to popular belief, the purpose of qorbanot is not simply to obtain forgiveness from sin. Although many qorbanot have the effect of expiating sins, there are many other purposes for bringing qorbanot, and the expiatory effect is often incidental, and is subject to significant limitations.

The purposes of qorbanot are much the same as the purposes of prayer: we bring qorbanot to praise G-d, to become closer to Him, to express thanks to G-d, love or gratitude. We bring qorbanot to celebrate holidays and festivals. Others are used to cleanse a person of ritual impurity (which does not necessarily have anything to do with sin: childbirth causes such impurity, but is certainly not a sin). And yes, many qorbanot, like many prayers, are brought for purposes of atonement.

The atoning aspect of qorbanot is limited. For the most part, qorbanot only expiate unintentional sins, that is, sins committed because a person forgot that this thing was a sin. No atonement is needed for violations committed under duress or through lack of knowledge, and for the most part, qorbanot cannot atone for a malicious, deliberate sin. In addition, qorbanot have no expiating effect unless the person making the offering sincerely repents his or her actions before making the offering, and makes restitution to any person who was harmed by the violation.

>>>Qorbanot: Sacrifices and Offerings Hmmm.

The evil inclination will be either annihilated, contained, or continuously occupied.

Well, that's a better answer than I got before, but if it's a gift from God, I don't see how it could ever be annihilated or contained. But I'm not sure if I know what you meant by "continuously occupied."

 

[David Davidovich]

OK. First thing: if you are frustrated that is justified and understandable. You asked about defects, deformities, etc.. I went through and reviewed, you were sent on a wild a goose chase, a fool's errand. And that is insulting.

Thank you for acknowledging that. Because at some point, a person can realize when they are being gaslighted.

That said, this is how I understand what was being said about following the Torah and the 7 mitzvot. Given that people grow old and die and get sick along the way, given that people are born with defects, deformities, and diseases, Jewish people can best cope and adapt and rise above these challenges by following Torah, and non Jewish people can best cope and adapt and rise above these challenges by following the 7 mitzvot.

So, how can following Torah and mitzvot change those things? Because to me, it seems like only something supernatural (and I know that might not be the correct word to use, because Jehovah's Witnesses also nitpick over that word, therefore, I hope you know what I mean) could change things like that.

That was what was said about it. Not following the rules isn't causing the death, defects, deformities, etc... Following them won't magically fix the problems, nor is it that following them, magically, in the past, would have prevented them. That was not said, nor intended. I'm quite sure because that is not rational. But, misunderstanding what was meant is perfectly rational based on what was said, based on the non-answers you rec'd.

Okay, but while we're on the subject, what caused the death, defects, and deformities, etc. in the first place?

 

[dybmh]

Well, what exactly is the serpent to Jews? Because I know it's not Satan as it is to Christians.

You asked about "Jews". I don't know if there is a concensus opinion. I'll look to see if I can find something.

Well, according to an article that I quoted in another post, it says:

>>>Yetzer hara

Yes, agreed. Congenital, meaning inheritted. However, that idea is not included in the text. But you are correct to point this out, thank you.

Well, I know that this is not a debate, but I've seen where in debates, atheists and skeptics use those same reasons to explain how God is the one who set up evil in the world, and if what you're saying in your answer is true, then you are confirming their same reasoning.
Isaiah 45:7

Yes, 100% I agree. And skeptics and atheists are correct. And I've mentioned it before. God is dreadful. Fearing it is proper. But the good far out weighs the bad. And really, we can only judge based on our own lives. One would need so much more to judge accurately.

 

[dybmh]

Actually, I meant repentance in general since I have been told that Jews don't believe in the concept of humans being in a sinful state.

Well, I'm not sure about what you were told. This is how I understand it. Each commandment is different. Breaking them has different effects. I don't think anyone really fully understands the mechanics of it. Trying to make it very simple... Imagine that each person is connected to God by a rope. Each commandment is a strand of the rope. Each sin cuts a strand of the rope. Repentence reconnects the strands. A broken heart, truly broken and crushed, renders a whole new rope. Which is useful because some transgressions are so severe that the entire rope is cut clean through, every strand.

Okay, I'm looking forward to that. Because I would like to know why this non-sinful, great king and great Torah keeper had to keep repenting for disobeying the Torah. I mean, what's wrong with obeying the Torah?

It wasn't that complicated actually. I mentioned it in post 551. But, this notion that we don't sin, and don't have a concept of sin isn't really true.

Well, this is what I looked up:

Those are some good ideas.

The second one above sounds a bit "Christian" to me.

Sure! Where do you think they got their ideas from? Some people ( many people? ) do back flips trying to deny any similarity what so ever with Christianity. But the truth is, we Jews own those ideas. They came from us. Christianity has tiny splinters of it, and has warped and added to it in places.

Also, is the Tetragrammaton "the four-letter name" that is being referred to? Because I thought that Jews weren't supposed to use that.

We're not supposed to say it in vain. What the article said was, where the offerings are described in the Torah, it is always coming from God described by the 4 letter name. So, it's talking about what's written, not about what is actually done during the offering.

>>>Qorbanot: Sacrifices and Offerings Hmmm.

What's hmmmm? The new emoji's don't do a good job expressing your reaction, sadly.

Well, that's a better answer than I got before, but if it's a gift from God, I don't see how it could ever be annihilated or contained. But I'm not sure if I know what you meant by "continuously occupied."

Well. Conquering it is a gift. The capability, and the tools, that we are given for this purpose are a gift. But, if we are just given these tools, and never use them, they have no value... therefore, the evil inclination along with the capability to conquer it is the gift.

Regarding keeping it busy... that's not too difficult to understand.

The evil inclination opposes. That's what it does. It's drawn to holiness, it's attracted to it. It cannot control itself. So, a person can make honey pot, they can make themselves a honey pot. And spend all their time involved in the law. Learning the law, following the law, all its details, etc. The entire time the evil inclination will be obsessed with this, trying to find ways to undermine it, looking for loopholes, trying to convince the person not to do it, trying to get them to mess up. If the law is complicated enough, and if the person never interrupts what they're doing, the evil inclination will be overwhelmed, and unable to do much.

 

[dybmh]

So, how can following Torah and mitzvot change those things? Because to me, it seems like only something supernatural (and I know that might not be the correct word to use, because Jehovah's Witnesses also nitpick over that word, therefore, I hope you know what I mean) could change things like that.

To be clear, I was helping to decode what another person said. Their approach is not my approach. They are a strict rationalist who is adverse to religion. And, don't worry at all about using the word supernatural with me. The Torah IS supernatural. Divinity IS supernatural. I think it's silly to deny it.

When we do good things, it creates a chain reaction of goodness that overflows our own lives and cascades to everyone we encounter and everything we do.

Okay, but while we're on the subject, what caused the death, defects, and deformities, etc. in the first place?

God. God is responsible. God created everything. The good the bad and the ugly.

 

[David Davidovich]

You asked about "Jews". I don't know if there is a concensus opinion. I'll look to see if I can find something.

I found this:

In Judaism "satan" is not a sentient being but a metaphor for the evil inclination – the yetzer hara – that exists in every person and tempts us to do wrong.

Satan as a Metaphor for the Yetzer Hara​

The Hebrew word "satan" (שָּׂטָן) translates to "adversary" and comes from a Hebrew verb meaning "to oppose" or "to obstruct."

In Jewish thought, one of the things Jews struggle against every day is the "evil inclination," also known as the yetzer hara (יֵצֶר הַרַע, from Genesis 6:5). The yetzer hara is not a force or a being, but rather refers to mankind's innate capacity for doing evil in the world. However, using the term satan to describe this impulse is not very common. On the other hand, the "good inclination" is called the yetzer ha'tov (יצר הטוב).

References to "satan" can be found in some Orthodox and Conservative prayer books, but they are viewed as symbolic descriptions of one aspect of mankind's nature.

>>>How Satan Is Viewed in Judaism

Yes, agreed. Congenital, meaning inheritted. However, that idea is not included in the text. But you are correct to point this out, thank you.

Thank you.

Yes, 100% I agree. And skeptics and atheists are correct. And I've mentioned it before. God is dreadful. Fearing it is proper. But the good far out weighs the bad. And really, we can only judge based on our own lives. One would need so much more to judge accurately.

But I would think that the only "more" that you are referring to are ancient writings made by men, which are claimed to be dictated by God. Or by ancient hand-me-down stories which are claimed to have been passed down from previous generations. But to me, that appears to be more akin to faith rather than to accuracy.