Fournication, homosexuality & sin.

[Ardent Listener]

In your religion, is fournication (illicit sexual intercourse betwen unmarried persons) considered to be a sin?

In your religion, is homosexuality considered a sin?

If both are considered a sin, is one considered a geater sin or a sin of special malice, over the other?

 

[Deut 13:1]

In your religion, is fournication (illicit sexual intercourse betwen unmarried persons) considered to be a sin?

In your religion, is homosexuality considered a sin?

If both are considered a sin, is one considered a geater sin or a sin of special malice, over the other?

yes
yes
no, you must give up your life before you do either.

 

[James the Persian]

Fornication is a sin. Homosexuality is not a sin, it is a temptation. Homosexual sex acts are acts of fornication (sex outside of wedlock) and so neither heterosexual or homosexual fornication is seen as a worse sin than the other. In fact, we don't actually have differing categories of sin. Sin is sin, full stop (period, for you Americans). However you sin you are falling short of the mark and any sin can be repented of.

James

 

[Deut 13:1]

Fornication is a sin. Homosexuality is not a sin, it is a temptation. Homosexual sex acts are acts of fornication (sex outside of wedlock) and so neither heterosexual or homosexual fornication is seen as a worse sin than the other. In fact, we don't actually have differing categories of sin. Sin is sin, full stop (period, for you Americans). However you sin you are falling short of the mark and any sin can be repented of.

James

So by your logic, eating shrimp is equivelent to the mass murder of 6 million Jews?

 

[James the Persian]

So by your logic, eating shrimp is equivelent to the mass murder of 6 million Jews?

No, eating shrimp is no sin at all (it's permitted food for us in even the most strict of fast periods). Is murder a worse sin than, say, theft? Well, it certainly has worse consequences but, spiritually, no. God will forgive any sin when it is sincerely repented of and not forgive any unrepented sin in our view. I'd note also that mass murder is not one sin but many - many sins are obviously worse than a single one.

James

 

[Atheist_Dave]

James your religion sounds ridiculous, sorry but it really does. Your god sees no difference from hitlers crimes and say, me taking a chocolate bar from a shop without paying? Moronic, yet thanks for the laugh x

 

[michel]

James your religion sounds ridiculous, sorry but it really does. Your god sees no difference from hitlers crimes and say, me taking a chocolate bar from a shop without paying? Moronic, yet thanks for the laugh x

Please, Dave, try not to call someone's views 'Moronic'; you may disagree with them, and that is fine, but calling them moronic is hardly condusive to normal, pleasant debate.
I can understand the point James is making, and although I personally disagree, his answer is valid for him, and for those of his faith.

Personally "fornication" Defined as "consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other", I do not see as a sin per se ; It depends (in my opinion) on whether there is a loving relationship between the two people. Obviously, if it is between people who feel little for each other (and who seek only sexual gratification), the I see it as a sin.

As James has already said, Homosexuality in itself is not regarded as a sin; the Church does require homosexuals to remain chaste, though. I have a problem with that, and it is not a morality I can subscribe to except in as much as i would see exactly the same parameters used as for hetero-sexual sex; if homosexual sex is between two consenting adults, who share a relationship of Love, I cannot see it as a sin.

 

[James the Persian]

James your religion sounds ridiculous, sorry but it really does. Your god sees no difference from hitlers crimes and say, me taking a chocolate bar from a shop without paying? Moronic, yet thanks for the laugh x

You are reading things into my words that I did not say. I do not know how God views anything and nor will I ever. All sin separates us from God and all sin can be repented of. Practically, then, sin is sin and that's it. That's all we can ever know. We are called to strive to be perfect, not to be perfect but a few 'small' sins won't hurt. Sin for us is not crime (which seems to be how you are looking at it) but rather it is sickness. The Church looks to cure us of sin, not punish us for it, so we don't distinguish categories of sin and we don't judge. That is left up to God. The opening post asked if my religion, not my God, made a distinction. We do not because practically speaking it is of no importance (crimes are punished by the state, not the Church). God may do, but how would I know? The only practical advice the Church can give is to repent of all sins no matter how 'small' they are and God will forgive them. Exactly how God will judge those who leave their sins unrepented is not for us to know. I'm sorry if you are unable to see the distinction between the attitude of a religion to sin and the attitude of God to it, but that doesn't mean the distinction does not exist.

James

 

[James the Persian]

As James has already said, Homosexuality in itself is not regarded as a sin; the Church does require homosexuals to remain chaste, though. I have a problem with that, and it is not a morality I can subscribe to except in as much as i would see exactly the same parameters used as for hetero-sexual sex;

We do, as I'm sure you're aware. I, unfortunately, did not live up to them before my marriage and so I committed a sin. That sin, were I not repentant of it, would be just as damaging to my soul (even though I later married the girl) as it would have been if I had murdered someone. The consequences of murdering someone and the damage caused to others would be far greater (in fact, I don't believe my pre-marital sex harmed anyone at all) but that is a different issue. We can only look to our own salvation and it is the Church's job to help us. We cannot save anyone else. This is why sins, practically speaking, are all the same and why we do not distinguish between them. We simply do not try to pre-judge what it is only right for God to judge.

James

 

[Mike182]

in my personal beliefs, neither is a sin

but i disaprove of sex with someone who you do not know, and i believe that you must be in a committed relationship that is long-term before you have sex

 

[Atheist_Dave]

I stand corrected james, sorry for my rudeness, sometimes I don't think. Please accept my apologies for being a bit of a jerk.

Peace x

 

[James the Persian]

I stand corrected james, sorry for my rudeness, sometimes I don't think. Please accept my apologies for being a bit of a jerk.

Peace x

No problem. We all have days when we're like that. I've certainly upset people here through thoughtlessness in the past and I'm sure I will again, though I hope I never do so deliberately. I certainly appreciate the apology but I'm sure that at least some of the reason for your misunderstanding must have been my lack of clarity. I hope you now understand that I draw a distinction between the practical teachings of my Church and the essentially unknowable mind of God, and that my replies related to the former rather than the latter.

James

 

[Fish and Bread]

I believe that homosexuals were made in the image and likeness of God and that many of them were created *as* homosexuals. Thus, homosexuality within a love and whole relationship can not only be non-sinful, but even blessed and holy.

What is refered to as fornication I think misses the mark in the sense that ideal sex takes place between two committed spouses or life partners. However, we live in an imperfect world. Sometimes, we can't find out life partner right away, but we can find a sort of love with someone that we wish to express physically. I don't think that is something God condemns us for. In the kingdom of heaven, all will be ideal. In the kingdom of earth, something we have to settle. I don't think God loves us any less for that.

 

[anders]

I believe in no religion.

Thus, there is nothing that I define as a "sin".

 

[Fluffy]

Neither one is a sin. In fact I believe fornication to be superior in some ways to sex in marriage although obviously worse in others.

 

[Isabella Lecour]

In your religion, is fournication (illicit sexual intercourse betwen unmarried persons) considered to be a sin?

In your religion, is homosexuality considered a sin?

If both are considered a sin, is one considered a geater sin or a sin of special malice, over the other?

Intresting question which presents for me a problem. I have no concept of "sin" beyond that which one does (actions) that knowingly harms another person. So I'm left with saying in general nither fornication or homosexuality is a "sin."

I am sure I can come up with examples where a person "sins" (according to my understanding of "sin") that may involve fornication and/or homosexuality. The "sin" would not be in partaking in these sexual options, but in harming knowingly another person however that was accomplished.

I see no point in ranking "sin" as greater than another harmful action as it is a religious term and issue rather than a legal one.

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

both are concidered sins. homosexual feelings are not sinful because they only occur and cannot be helped. choosing to be in a hoomosexual relationship is wrong

 

[Ori]

both are concidered sins. homosexual feelings are not sinful because they only occur and cannot be helped. choosing to be in a hoomosexual relationship is wrong

Why is that?

 

[Mister_T]

Personally "fornication" Defined as "consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other", I do not see as a sin per se ; It depends (in my opinion) on whether there is a loving relationship between the two people. Obviously, if it is between people who feel little for each other (and who seek only sexual gratification), the I see it as a sin

I share Michel's view. My first thread I started dealt with this subject. As long as 2 people love each other, I don't believe it is a sin.

 

[Jeremiah61]

I am in the way of knowing that both fornication and homosexuality are sin, mostly for religious reasons. Homosexuality and fornication are, to my understanding, declared as sins by Christianity, which is to say that faith taught by Christ, preached by the Apostles, attested by the Martyrs, enbodied in the Creeds, and expounded by the Fathers. Whether or not there is a loving relationship between the participants in such sins is void. To rationalize homosexuality and fornication using Christianity is at least a perversion of this Gospel and a corruption of this Faith.

A 'liberal' Christianity which considers itself free to alter the Faith whenever the Faith looks perplexing or repellant or out dated, as is the case with homosexuality and fornication these days, must be completely stagnant. Progress is made only into a resisting material. It is not the place of the Christian to skip, slur, or ignore those doctrines of Christianity which he personally finds obscure or repulsive.


Correct me if I am mistaken, ite?