Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution and Abortion

[Fool]

How can a fetus be recognized as a person if it hasn't been born and have rights that isn't covered, or recognized by the 14th Amendment?


All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


also representatives are based on the number of actual persons per section ii.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

How can a fetus be recognized as a person if it hasn't been born and have rights that isn't covered, or recognized by the 14th Amendment?


All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


also representatives are based on the number of actual persons per section ii.

I don't think the constitution has mattered for a long time to people making the laws. Well it does, but party lines matter more, I think.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

How can a fetus be recognized as a person if it hasn't been born and have rights that isn't covered, or recognized by the 14th Amendment?


All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


also representatives are based on the number of actual persons per section ii.

Quick, and very possibly silly, question:
In that phrase; what does “naturalised” mean…?


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Fool]

Quick, and very possibly silly, question:
In that phrase; what does “naturalised” mean…?


Humbly
Hermit

(of a foreigner) admitted to the citizenship of a country. in other words, someone not born in the USA but has gone through the process of becoming a permanent resident and citizen.

 

[Harel13]

Universal human rights?

*proceeds to exit thread*

 

[Kenny]

How can a fetus be recognized as a person if it hasn't been born and have rights that isn't covered, or recognized by the 14th Amendment?


All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


also representatives are based on the number of actual persons per section ii.

person
pûr′sən
noun

1. A living human. Often used in combination.
2. An individual of specified character.
3. The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self.

It seems like it fits the person of a baby in the womb?

 

[Estro Felino]

All right.
Since Gianna Jessen was alive when the abortion procedure was over, may I call this procedure "attempted murder"?

You know...I know what I am saying. I can prove this in any penal court.


Gianna Jessen - Wikipedia

 

[Fool]

person
pûr′sən
noun

1. A living human. Often used in combination.
2. An individual of specified character.
3. The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self.

the word in the 14th amendment is specifically birth. there is no dancing around that. the 14th amendment would have to be altered to fit anything before birth

 

[Kenny]

the word in the 14th amendment is specifically birth. there is no dancing around that. the 14th amendment would have to be altered to fit anything before birth

"nor" represents a new and different application.
nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

[Fool]

All right.
Since Gianna Jessen was alive when the abortion procedure was terminated, may I call this procedure "attempted murder"?

You know...I know what I am saying. I can prove this in any penal court.


Gianna Jessen - Wikipedia

again this doesn't fit within the scope of the 14th amendment. she obviously survived because she was late term

 

[Fool]

"nor" represents a new and different application.
nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

the 14th amendment already tells you that it is only for persons after b-i-r-t-h


the laws have never recognized a fetus as a person.

on the census there is no counting of fetuses.

at any kind of roll call there is no counting two people when a woman is pregnant.

you can't drive in the hov lane unless multiple people are in the vehicle. a pregnant woman isn't considered multiple people.

there is no extra representation in states for fetuses. actual people are counted.

there is no tax credits for fetuses on state or federal tax forms. they have to be actual living persons.

there is no treatment for fetuses vs mothers when going to the doctor. you're treating one person.

when buying a ticket to the theater, a sports event, an amusement park, a social/recreational event of any kind, a pregnant woman is buying one ticket.

the list is endless

 

[Estro Felino]

again this doesn't fit within the scope of the 14th amendment. she obviously survived because she was late term

So would you agree on banning late term abortions with federal law (in all states)?
And I mean 20th week as deadline.

 

[Fool]

So would you agree on banning late term abortions with federal law (in all states)?
And I mean 20th week as deadline.

there is a show where dramas are created to tell the story of women who didn't even know they were pregnant until they started having their babies.

i know life is not an absolute black and white scenario and absolute black and white answers aren't the answer.

anti-abortionists are projecting all kinds of warm fuzzies and emotional baggage on to what might not be the case.

the bible doesn't teach that an unborn baby has a soul. the spirit and the body are not exactly the same thing, nor is consciousness and the body the same thing.

there are two births and two deaths per the bible.

 

[Truth in love]

How can a fetus be recognized as a person if it hasn't been born and have rights that isn't covered, or recognized by the 14th Amendment?


All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


also representatives are based on the number of actual persons per section ii.

The Federal Government is not seeing the unborn as a person (worth noting our science at the time did not give us much to go on for pregnancy).

Nothing there limits a state from extending protection of life to the unborn.

It should be worth noting the the WIC program counts the unborn. So the 14th amendment does not prohibit it.

 

[Estro Felino]

there is a show where dramas are created to tell the story of women who didn't even know they were pregnant until they started having their babies.

i know life is not an absolute black and white scenario and absolute black and white answers aren't the answer.

anti-abortionists are projecting all kinds of warm fuzzies and emotional baggage on to what might not be the case.

the bible doesn't teach that an unborn baby has a soul. the spirit and the body are not exactly the same thing, nor is consciousness and the body the same thing.

there are two births and two deaths per the bible.

With all due respect, I would like my question to be answered.
Would you agree on that ban? Yes or no

 

[Fool]

The Federal Government is not seeing the unborn as a person (worth noting our science at the time did not give us much to go on for pregnancy).

Nothing there limits a state from extending protection of life to the unborn.

It should be worth noting the the WIC program counts the unborn. So the 14th amendment does not prohibit it.

actually it doesn't. wic is for the pregnant mother. you can't feed food to a fetus.

a fetus can't even get insurance. only the mother is registered

a fetus isn't registered for anything.

the mother is vital to the potential fetus.

the fetus isn't vital the vital mother.


these arguments get dummer every day

 

[Fool]

With all due respect, I would like my question to be answered.
Would you agree on that ban? Yes or no

a loud NO.

 

[Kenny]

the 14th amendment already tells you that it is only for persons after b-i-r-t-h


the laws have never recognized a fetus as a person.

on the census there is no counting of fetuses.

at any kind of roll call there is no counting two people when a woman is pregnant.

you can't drive in the hov lane unless multiple people are in the vehicle. a pregnant woman isn't considered multiple people.

there is no extra representation in states for fetuses. actual people are counted.

there is no tax credits for fetuses on state or federal tax forms. they have to be actual living persons.

there is no treatment for fetuses vs mothers when going to the doctor. you're treating one person.

when buying a ticket to the theater, a sports event, an amusement park, a social/recreational event of any kind, a pregnant woman is buying one ticket.

the list is endless

When you have a ";" and the word "nor" - I understand that to be a different thought and application.

 

[Truth in love]

actually it doesn't. wic is for the pregnant mother. you can't feed food to a fetus.

a fetus can't even get insurance. only the mother is registered

Family size calculations include JR.

 

[Estro Felino]

a loud NO.

Thank you for your answer.
So an abortion is doable even at the 32nd week?