Free Will

[whatever]

If god gave us free will. Then he destroyed an entire city including infants and women. Those infants never had a chance to make a decision.

 

[Quiddity]

If god gave us free will. Then he destroyed an entire city including infants and women. Those infants never had a chance to make a decision.

The same can be said of a man who got hit by a car and never saw it coming. He never got a choice to move out of the way. So what's your point?

~Victor

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Point is it seems that is a pretty darned arbitrary capricious and cruel god there Victor. The car incident was an accident, while razing the city, infants and all, was done on purpose by God.

B.

 

[whatever]

Just wondering why he destroyed the infants without giving them a fair chance, regardless of knowing their destiny

 

[SoyLeche]

Just wondering why he destroyed the infants without giving them a fair chance, regardless of knowing their destiny

A fair chance at what exactly?

 

[Quiddity]

Point is it seems that is a pretty darned arbitrary capricious and cruel god there Victor. The car incident was an accident, while razing the city, infants and all, was done on purpose by God.

B.

I suppose it would be of no difference to you if He let it happen?

~Victor

 

[whatever]

at living.

A fair chance at what exactly?

 

[spacemonkey]

It is a gnostic belief that the God mentioned in the OT (the one known for floods, fire, and intollerance) was not the same one preached about by Jesus (one known for love, peace, and forgivness). It is our belief that Jesus was sent here to help guide us to freedom from the imprisonment of the lower god, [font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Yaldabaoth. Why were Adam and Eve forbidden to eat from the Tree of Knowledge? To keep them stupid.
[/font]

 

[SoyLeche]

at living.

Where does it say that everyone should get a fair chance at living?

 

[whatever]

he gave us free will and yet he killed innocent infants because they were going excersise their free will later on in life?

 

[Aqualung]

he gave us free will and yet he killed innocent infants because they were going excersise their free will?

Whre does it say you can't excercise free will before or after your life on this earth?

 

[whatever]

LOL thats great!!

Whre does it say you can't excercise free will before or after your life on this earth?

 

[Quiddity]

Whre does it say you can't excercise free will before or after your life on this earth?

And even if you can't. Who says you won't go to heaven?

~Victor

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I suppose it would be of no difference to you if He let it happen?

~Victor

I suppose you mean let it happen as opposed to being the one who actually causes it to happen? If that is the case, then no, it makes no difference to me, and I will tell you why.

God of the Bible, as I understand, is omniscient and omnipotent, meaning he knows all that has ever happened, and ever will, and has ultimate power to cause things to happen, or not, as he sees fit. If he has ultimate power over every situation, then he ultimately is responsible for the results of every situation, so whether he directly slaughtered the babies, or allowed some other agent to do so makes no real difference.

I will draw you a parallel to illustrate. I am an attorney by trade. (yet another reason I am going to Hell, ha ha, heard the jokes already) I have ethical obligations to fulfill. There are many different ethical rules I have to follow, and these rules are binding to me, as well as non-lawyers who are on my staff. If an ethical breach comes about, it makes no difference whether it was me that breached the duty, or my secretary or my paralegal made the breach. I am ultimately responsible, as I am deemed to be oversee-er of the ethics for myself and all who work under me.

And I am not even omniscient, and am held responsible for what I do, or what goes on by other agents. Hope that illustrates why it makes no difference to me whether God actually murdered the babies, or allowed someone else to murder the babies.

Basically I am against murdering babies. That pretty much sums up my position. (like to find someone to argue with that statement, lol)

B.

 

[Quiddity]

I suppose you mean let it happen as opposed to being the one who actually causes it to happen? If that is the case, then no, it makes no difference to me, and I will tell you why.

God of the Bible, as I understand, is omniscient and omnipotent, meaning he knows all that has ever happened, and ever will, and has ultimate power to cause things to happen, or not, as he sees fit. If he has ultimate power over every situation, then he ultimately is responsible for the results of every situation, so whether he directly slaughtered the babies, or allowed some other agent to do so makes no real difference.

I will draw you a parallel to illustrate. I am an attorney by trade. (yet another reason I am going to Hell, ha ha, heard the jokes already) I have ethical obligations to fulfill. There are many different ethical rules I have to follow, and these rules are binding to me, as well as non-lawyers who are on my staff. If an ethical breach comes about, it makes no difference whether it was me that breached the duty, or my secretary or my paralegal made the breach. I am ultimately responsible, as I am deemed to be oversee-er of the ethics for myself and all who work under me.

And I am not even omniscient, and am held responsible for what I do, or what goes on by other agents. Hope that illustrates why it makes no difference to me whether God actually murdered the babies, or allowed someone else to murder the babies.

Basically I am against murdering babies. That pretty much sums up my position. (like to find someone to argue with that statement, lol)

B.

You won't find it here. And not from me. Cause I agree. But of course I put my delusional faith :areyoucra on God to bring about the greater good. Even if I don't understand it. That's where you and I differ. Me telling you that God is much different then you and I would not comfort you by any means. No more then me trying to explain to my 2 year old that the pain the dentist is causing him is for his own good. Nothing I say matters, he will cry his head off.

~Victor

 

[SoyLeche]

I will draw you a parallel to illustrate. I am an attorney by trade. (yet another reason I am going to Hell, ha ha, heard the jokes already) I have ethical obligations to fulfill. There are many different ethical rules I have to follow, and these rules are binding to me, as well as non-lawyers who are on my staff. If an ethical breach comes about, it makes no difference whether it was me that breached the duty, or my secretary or my paralegal made the breach. I am ultimately responsible, as I am deemed to be oversee-er of the ethics for myself and all who work under me.

But you don't get to decide what is ethical and what isn't. You are working under another authority. God isn't. I don't know where I want to go with this line of thought, but I wanted to get it out there.

 

[The Conspirator]

To often people look at the story's them selves instead of looking at the over all meaning, massage and purpose of the actions in the story.
Instead of looking at the actions the story said that God did lets look at the motives behind the actions.
What was Gods motives and dose the motives justify the action?
What was the Gods motives in giving humanity free will, what was Gods motives for imposing his will on those he killed and dose that motive justify the action?