Freedom is better than Life

[Estro Felino]

Well...let's say Jesus was just a man. Not a god.
Who lived a life sacrificing everything to an ideal, a values system.
Truth, Justice (let us not forget what Pilate asked Jesus, ti esti aletheia; (What is the Truth).

From a merely philosophical and also atheistic point of view, he made us understand one thing.
That Life is not worth-living, unless we fight for what we believe in. So it is better to die, as he did.
And he could have saved himself.
For an ideal. For Truth, Justice (also economic and social justice).
What do u guys think?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well...let's say Jesus was just a man. Not a god.
Who lived a life sacrificing everything to an ideal, a values system.
Truth, Justice (let us not forget what Pilate asked Jesus, ti esti aletheia; (What is the Truth).

From a merely philosophical and also atheistic point of view, he made us understand one thing.
That Life is not worth-living, unless we fight for what we believe in. So it is better to die, as he did.
And he could have saved himself.
For an ideal. For Truth, Justice (also economic and social justice).
What do u guys think?

I do believe in sacrifying my own ego for fully being there for others. It is a very difficult road to walk that's for sure.

 

[Nimos]

Well...let's say Jesus was just a man. Not a god.
Who lived a life sacrificing everything to an ideal, a values system.
Truth, Justice (let us not forget what Pilate asked Jesus, ti esti aletheia; (What is the Truth).

From a merely philosophical and also atheistic point of view, he made us understand one thing.
That Life is not worth-living, unless we fight for what we believe in. So it is better to die, as he did.
And he could have saved himself.
For an ideal. For Truth, Justice (also economic and social justice).
What do u guys think?

I would disagree in this particular case, first of all, Jesus didn't actually die in the sense that we understand death. If you sacrifice yourself for something and rise again in 3 days being perfectly fine, its not really all that amazing is it? Also Jesus were sacrifice or God sacrificed himself, depending on what you believe, for something he were to blame for himself, which sort of ruins the point I think.

So Jesus didn't exactly play by the same rules as we do, so in most cases I would say fight for freedom, because it ought to be your right as a human.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
-John 15:13

Pier Paolo Pasolini, director of the 1964 film Il Vangelo Secondo Matteo (The Gospel According to Matthew) was an atheist. He portrayed Jesus as just a man, but a man willing to die for his principles, much as the OP suggests. I read somewhere that Pope Francis loves this film - that may be hearsay (or heresy ), but Pope Francis is no ordinary cleric imo, so who knows?

Anyway, I’m going to have to watch it again now.

 

[SalixIncendium]

As I understand it, Jesus didn't "fight for what he believed in" or "sacrifice everything." Jesus shed all worldly attachments and lived as an enlightened being rather than identifying with his human self.

When one understands the nature of one's being, one becomes unattached to worldly things, even the body/mind complex. For an enlightened being, there are no possessions to sacrifice. Nothing in this world is "mine," as it is all temporary. Only the Self is immutable. I think Jesus lived with this understanding.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I do believe in sacrifying my own ego for fully being there for others.

To what end?

 

[SalixIncendium]

So Jesus didn't exactly play by the same rules as we do...

Or "we" just don't understand the "rules."

 

[Spirit of Light]

To what end?

To the end of "self" not living for "me" but for others.

 

[SalixIncendium]

To the end of "self" not living for "me" but for others.

What are you hoping to accomplish in living for others?

 

[Spirit of Light]

What are you hoping to accomplish in living for others?

Nothing to be accomplished if it was something to feel accomplished about, ego would still have a want for something by helping others.

It has to be a help, by unconditional love toward other beings.

 

[AlexanderG]

Well...let's say Jesus was just a man. Not a god.
Who lived a life sacrificing everything to an ideal, a values system.
Truth, Justice (let us not forget what Pilate asked Jesus, ti esti aletheia; (What is the Truth).

From a merely philosophical and also atheistic point of view, he made us understand one thing.
That Life is not worth-living, unless we fight for what we believe in. So it is better to die, as he did.
And he could have saved himself.
For an ideal. For Truth, Justice (also economic and social justice).
What do u guys think?

I would disagree in this particular case, first of all, Jesus didn't actually die in the sense that we understand death. If you sacrifice yourself for something and rise again in 3 days being perfectly fine, its not really all that amazing is it? Also Jesus were sacrifice or God sacrificed himself, depending on what you believe, for something he were to blame for himself, which sort of ruins the point I think.

So Jesus didn't exactly play by the same rules as we do, so in most cases I would say fight for freedom, because it ought to be your right as a human.

Yes, I would shed my fleshly body and become a god ruling over the universe and all people, if that's what it took to get everything I want and to be able to judge and punish whoever went against my opinions. I'd nobly and selflessly make that terrible trade-off...

But more to address the OP, I think we know almost nothing about the actual Jesus. It is likely he was identical to the street preachers we see in Times Square, probably a little bit off mentally, and probably sincere in his self-aggrandizing delusions. He happened to have a following that exaggerated some stories about him after he died. But did he die for some noble cause? Hard to say. People die for larger causes all the time in order to fulfill the image of their own self-identity, in every revolution, every protest met with violence, every fight for social progress, and in every ICU bed with a Covid vaccine denier.

 

[Lain]

What do u guys think?

I've always personally thought that if your beliefs aren't worth dying for or even going to war over at some point then neither they (the beliefs) nor the person who has them is that serious about it. So I'd agree with this.

 

[Shadow11]

So what are you saying - if I don't kill those who believe differently than me I'm not a true believer and I should want to go to war over these ideas and kill the infidels - really! Haven't we had enough of that or have we still not learned.

 

[Polymath257]

If you don't know what you would die for, you may not have much to live for.

 

[Estro Felino]

So what are you saying - if I don't kill those who believe differently than me I'm not a true believer and I should want to go to war over these ideas and kill the infidels - really! Haven't we had enough of that or have we still not learned.

Absolutely not.
Better being a victim than a perpetrator.
Better being a martyr than harming someone.
As Jesus did. Jesus is a victim.
He did not kill. He was killed.

So it is better than being victimized than giving up freedom.

 

[Kooky]

As I understand it, Jesus didn't "fight for what he believed in" or "sacrifice everything." Jesus shed all worldly attachments and lived as an enlightened being rather than identifying with his human self.

Jesus is many things to many people. That's ultimately part of his appeal, I would say.

There is so little to go on what the man thought or believed or even what he taught specifically, that we can readily interpret anything we like into his teachings and a have a good chance at returning with something that appeals to us personally.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Jesus is many things to many people. That's ultimately part of his appeal, I would say.

There is so little to go on what the man thought or believed or even what he taught specifically, that we can readily interpret anything we like into his teachings and a have a good chance at returning with something that appeals to us personally.

Indeed. It is also my understanding that Jesus liked turtles.

 

[PureX]

For we humans, just surviving is not living. We need also, to fulfill that spirit within us that separates us from being just another animal. We humans do not exist as physical phenomena, alone. We also exist as metaphysical 'beings'. As unique, self-aware, self-motivated, ideological individuals. And it's important that we try and fulfill that uniqueness. It is who we are, and why we are.

 

[Estro Felino]

For we humans, just surviving is not living. We need also, to fulfill that spirit within us that separates us from being just another animal. We humans do not exist as physical phenomena, alone. We also exist as metaphysical 'beings'. As unique, self-aware, self-motivated, ideological individuals. And it's important that we try and fulfill that uniqueness. It is who we are, and why we are.

Thank you.

 

[Nakosis]

Well...let's say Jesus was just a man. Not a god.
Who lived a life sacrificing everything to an ideal, a values system.
Truth, Justice (let us not forget what Pilate asked Jesus, ti esti aletheia; (What is the Truth).

From a merely philosophical and also atheistic point of view, he made us understand one thing.
That Life is not worth-living, unless we fight for what we believe in. So it is better to die, as he did.
And he could have saved himself.
For an ideal. For Truth, Justice (also economic and social justice).
What do u guys think?

To me it is kind of a tough call.
Hard to fight for anything if you are dead.

To save people you care about sure. For an idea, I don't know.
There's no guarantee that when you die your ideas won't die with you.
While you are alive at least you can continue to act. Maybe do some good in furthering your cause.

I suppose dying for an idea at least creates a good narrative for others. In Jesus' case, Christianity seems to have done as much harm as it's done good. If Jesus had lived to continue to teach perhaps we would now have a different Christianity.