Freedom Speech = Free to say anything you like y/n?

[stvdv]

Different people have different opinions on Freedom of Speech. You are:
*) Free to speak your opinion

Many on RF think it also means you are:
*) Free to hurt others with your words

Then, if you have hurt someone, he is:
*) Free to make a joke "I will kill you"

So, where does it end? Are you Free to:
belittle (make fun of) Muhammad/Jesus/Atheist?
criticize the person Muhammad/Jesus/Atheist?
criticize actions done by Muhammad/Jesus/Atheist?
What good would it be to use your freedom to belittle persons?
(Especially when you know you hurt/anger them)?

I believe that Freedom of Speech means, that you are free to give your opinion and even if you can't oblige, you can always speak obligingly. A bit like how the RF Rules instruct us to behave a bit humane and decent
"Play the ball, don't play the man"

So,
Freedom of Speech
does not mean
Freedom to Hurt

Or does it mean:
a) You are Free, as in you can't be charged by a judge, to say whatever you want, as it are just words. When put in action, then different rules apply
b) You are Free to say what you want, but a judge could hold you accountable for what you said
c) You can say whatever you want, but RF Rules still apply, and your freedom could be taken away, even if you just used Freedom of Speech
d) Do (not) unto others what you do (not) want be done to you

In the Poll I just gave a few examples
And if you think of other examples
Please share them in a post

At least it's good to know, when debating, what we can expect, and what should (not) be done

 

[JustGeorge]

Are we talking about free speech in daily life, or free speech on RF?

RF doesn't actually have free speech. That's not a secret.

 

[Heyo]

Different people have different opinions on Freedom of Speech. You are:
*) Free to speak your opinion

Many on RF think it also means you are:
*) Free to hurt others with your words

Then, if you have hurt someone, he is:
*) Free to make a joke "I will kill you"

So, where does it end? Are you Free to:
belittle (make fun of) Muhammad/Jesus/Atheist?
criticize the person Muhammad/Jesus/Atheist?
criticize actions done by Muhammad/Jesus/Atheist?
What good would it be to use your freedom to belittle persons?
(Especially when you know you hurt/anger them)?

I believe that Freedom of Speech means, that you are free to give your opinion and even if you can't oblige, you can always speak obligingly. A bit like how the RF Rules instruct us to behave a bit humane and decent
"Play the ball, don't play the man"

So,
Freedom of Speech
does not mean
Freedom to Hurt

Or does it mean:
a) You are Free, as in you can't be charged by a judge, to say whatever you want, as it are just words. When put in action, then different rules apply
b) You are Free to say what you want, but a judge could hold you accountable for what you said
c) You can say whatever you want, but RF Rules still apply, and your freedom could be taken away, even if you just used Freedom of Speech
d) Do (not) unto others what you do (not) want be done to you

In the Poll I just gave a few examples
And if you think of other examples
Please share them in a post

At least it's good to know, when debating, what we can expect, and what should (not) be done

The problem with limited freedom to hurt is that people have widely different levels of pain.

When I'd use the Golden Rule, "d) Do (not) unto others what you do (not) want be done to you", you'd probably scream in pain.
On the other hand, I'd probably feel my intellect to be assaulted when people post sugar-coated bull**** and expect me to eat it up.

The truth hurts, lies hurt.

And beating around the bush doesn't get us anywhere, we'd may as well limit our conversations to the weather.
In fact, pussyfooting can be perceived as condescending.

So, you can't have a friendly conversation with everyone using the same words. You have to read your interlocutor/audience. Courtesy is pretty much dependent upon culture. In my culture, we value truth and authenticity above sweet talk.

 

[stvdv]

Are we talking about free speech in daily life, or free speech on RF?

RF doesn't actually have free speech. That's not a secret.

No, Free Speech in general

 

[stvdv]

The problem with limited freedom to hurt is that people have widely different levels of pain.

When I'd use the Golden Rule, "d) Do (not) unto others what you do (not) want be done to you", you'd probably scream in pain.
On the other hand, I'd probably feel my intellect to be assaulted when people post sugar-coated bull**** and expect me to eat it up.

The truth hurts, lies hurt.

And beating around the bush doesn't get us anywhere, we'd may as well limit our conversations to the weather.
In fact, pussyfooting can be perceived as condescending.

So, you can't have a friendly conversation with everyone using the same words. You have to read your interlocutor/audience. Courtesy is pretty much dependent upon culture. In my culture, we value truth and authenticity above sweet talk.

But I'm sure you think there should be some restrictions on Free Speech

Do you believe in Carte Blanche to Free Speech?

And what about:
Free Speech is "not free" if it can get you in jail

 

[Heyo]

But I'm sure you think there should be some restrictions on Free Speech

Do you believe in Carte Blanche to Free Speech?

Nope.
I'm mostly OK with how freedom of speech is handled in most countries in the Western world.
You can't cry "fire" in a crowded theatre, is probably the most cited limit, and it is one that's useful, the same goes for calls for violence, and for (specific) threats.
A mixed bag are libel laws. It pretty much depends on the real, measurable damage.
Where I draw the line is blasphemy. When it just hurts your feelings, get a thicker skin.

And what about:
Free Speech is "not free" if it can get you in jail

If it gets you in jail, it wasn't free speech. Know the law.

 

[stvdv]

Nope.
I'm mostly OK with how freedom of speech is handled in most countries in the Western world.
You can't cry "fire" in a crowded theatre, is probably the most cited limit, and it is one that's useful, the same goes for calls for violence, and for (specific) threats.
A mixed bag are libel laws. It pretty much depends on the real, measurable damage.

Okay, that's my thought too
There should be limits to Free Speech

If it gets you in jail, it wasn't free speech. Know the law.

Exactly. Free Speech doesn't mean you are free to say whatever you like

 

[stvdv]

Where I draw the line is blasphemy. When it just hurts your feelings, get a thicker skin.

Question: If you have a friend who you know for a long time, and let's say that he becomes a millionaire, and suddenly he starts belittling you, calling you poor, beneath him, saying mean things, also publicly about you, maybe talking behind your back

It's just about feelings, no physical hurt

Do you keep him as a friend? And do you take it as a challenge to grow a thicker skin

 

[Heyo]

Question: If you have a friend who you know for a long time, and let's say that he becomes a millionaire, and suddenly he starts belittling you, calling you poor, beneath him, saying mean things, also publicly about you, maybe talking behind your back

It's just about feelings, no physical hurt

Do you keep him as a friend? And do you take it as a challenge to grow a thicker skin

So many different things ...

calling you poor

That's just the truth, doesn't hurt me.

beneath him

saying mean things

No problem - if he can deal with the echo.

maybe talking behind your back

That may become a problem. If he is spreading lies that could hurt me monetarily, he's gone too far.
But that is unlikely, as in the company I keep, being direct and truthful, is a virtue, so people will confront me with his allegations and he will lose all credibility.
Gossip only works when people are too "polite" to ask directly.

 

[stvdv]

So many different things ...

That's just the truth, doesn't hurt me.

True for me too, Though I have enough to live

No problem - if he can deal with the echo.

When I ask them "why are you mean to me?", usually they don't like that kind of echo, and meanness diminishes

That may become a problem. If he is spreading lies that could hurt me monetarily, he's gone too far.
But that is unlikely, as in the company I keep, being direct and truthful, is a virtue

Aha ... being truthful is all that I need

, so people will confront me with his allegations and he will lose all credibility.
Gossip only works when people are too "polite" to ask directly.

Thank you for answering, I appreciate that