https://physics.iupui.edu/~vasavada/ModernPhysicsandHinduPhilosophy.pdf is one article that explores the relationship of science to modern physics.
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Freedom versus Death: The essence of Upanishadic teaching
- Thread starter atanu
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Terry Sampson
Well-Known Member
Me??? LOL! You're the relativist, not me. I am hardpressed to think of anything more exotic and mystical, except the Abrahamic minions who talk about immaterial spirits or, as in Pansychism & The Purpose of Consciousness, people who talk about "philosophical zombies.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Since you don't seek a debate, let me ask you these questions:
Can you think of any statement that if found true would change your mind ? Anything that in principle could be found true ( rather than being shown to us by some supernatural entity )?
This is also an exercise for me. Honestly, at this moment, I can only think of something like ordinary rocks showing clear signs of (human) consciousness.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
As I see it, the problem is thus: Reincarnation, even if true, is not sufficient to establish idealism. The existence of something that has not been detected so far can easily be added into a materialist framework.
Now regarding the reincarnation claim itself: Even if we are able to determine with 100% confidence that a given memory in a certain child is completely accurate with what happened to someone that was unheard of to this child it doesn't mean reincarnation is true. Bear with me for a moment: If I can think of alternative explanations, then reincarnation can't be proven by that fact alone. Do you agree ?
One alternative is that somehow it is possible to possess the same memories of somebody else. Be it by inhereting them or by accessing them as if someone had the password to somebody else's account.
Sure, but then again it doesn't mean that it must be something unrelated to matter. Time and time again in history, humans have been able to figure out natural explanations to phenomena. This reminds of germ theory.
Yes, I do agree. Science can establish that reincarnation is one possible explanation but that's it.
its called the no-hiding theorem of quantum mechanics and its been proven to be true.
information can never be created/destroyed. its transferrable.
so this information is downloaded with the new form; which increases its data capture, or information gathering. the form, or verbage of system is used in the science nomenclature, is temporal. like a car is a vehicle for conveying a driver. this will continue infinitely; until it recognizes the reverse is true that it is the mind that creates. then it turns inward for every action, there is an opposite but equal reaction.
you will be assimilated
I'm not going to answer for @atanu, but as one who has a very similar (if not the same) worldview, if science were to discover that this worldview is incorrect, then I would adjust my worldview to conform to said discovery.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Sure. But my question was more like: Can you think of a discovery that would change your mind about idealism ? If yes, what ?
Yes. The origin of consciousness.
The following will unequivocally convert me. Origin of self awareness “I am”. A jealous lady bot feeling utterly despondent after being spurned in love. Creation of consciousness or a at least an explanatory model as how physical parameters such as mass, momentum etc. will combine to give rise to “I am” awareness.
Sir, I am afraid that you may be seeking a wrong exercise. Advaita does not propose Panpsychism. Advaita proposed that the conscious-animate as well as unconscious-inanimate are processed in same consciousness, which is non dual.
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Koldo
Outstanding Member
Even if we figured that our consciousness came to be though evolution for instance, wouldn't idealism still be viable ?
Not quite what I meant. I wasn’t referencing a starting point. I was referencing a cause.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
If we figured that our consciousness came to be through an evolutionary process, would you change your mind? Wouldn't idealism still be viable? I mean, how does that refute an all-encompassing mind as the ground of being?
Do you mean that if we were to create a robot with human emotions that would change your mind? I am curious, why? Why would it be any different from biological bodies possessing consciousness?
We can't assess somebody else's consciousness without a body. How would we figure that we are creating radio waves rather than a mere radio? Do you get what I am saying?
This was a misunderstanding. I meant that ordinary rocks showing clear signs of human consciousness would make me change my mind and no longer be a materialist. Not that Advaita had anything to do with that.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
What do you mean by 'cause' on this context ?
As far as I see it, I also meant the evolutionary process as a cause.
That is not incorrect. mAyA is neither real nor unreal. It is ignorance.
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What is the source of consciousness?
If scientists determine the precise neurological activity that occurs in the brain to produce consciousness, would that count as a "cause", ie the "source"?
That would be consciousness as a product of a mechanism. Tell me honestly, do we have any example of a product solving the problem of its birth.
I know that there are glib answers. Most of such glib answers are discussed in the posts that I linked.
But most common sense question will be “Who knows the neuronal process?”
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Not sure what you mean by this. What is self-awareness, but the ability to make an object of your own subject?
I did some edit.