Freedom

[JustGeorge]

Freedom. What is it, anyways?

Some might think its the right to do whatever you want; honestly, we have that more often than not, we just don't like the consequences. Freedom to do whatever you want without consequence? That seems like it would get hairy really quickly, and it would just be a big ugly fight of 'freedoms', resulting in much pain and tragedy.

I tend to think its an attitude. One of the freest moments I had was when I was being attacked by someone I didn't have the hopes to take down, but took the punches with a smirk; you won't bring me down mentally or physically, buddy. Some of my most restricted times I was alone in a dwelling that I paid for, feeling crushed by my own miseries, unable to function.

One of my sons bought a Sublime shirt yesterday, and it has "40oz to freedom" written on it. Recognizing it as an old song, I listened to it; its been years since I heard it. The lyric stuck out: "A 40 oz to freedom is the only chance I have to feel good, though I feel bad". I remembered back to my own days of opening a beverage, the sudden 'release', and feeling the 'freedom' pouring in... But, it wasn't real freedom; just borrowed(and I'd have to pay it back).

Anymore, I think that's what I strive for. Freedom. I will likely never be rid of responsibilities, I will never be in any financial situation in which I don't have to consider such things. But, I'd like the freedom to act as the heart and mind dictate appropriate for the moment, to stay in the moment, to be released of the bondage of the brain, to shoo off the 'what if's. To eat when I'm hungry, stop when I'm full. To be done with 'shoulda, woulda, coulda'. To flush any personal labels down the toilet, and just be.

Who would have thought freedom would be such work...

What's freedom like for you?

(I know I said the word 'freedom', but this is about personal freedom, and is not a political discussion. If anyone tries to turn this into something political, I will send an overfed brontosaurus to take a dump on your front steps.)

 

[Quagmire]

For me, freedom is a sense of belonging to myself: not to society, not to my possessions, not to the future of the past, not to my image, not to my wants and desires, not to my fears and hopes.

I can have all those things, but when I start letting them have me I'm in trouble.

 

[Quagmire]

But, I'd like the freedom to act as the heart and mind dictate appropriate for the moment, to stay in the moment, to be released of the bondage of the brain, to shoo off the 'what if's. To eat when I'm hungry, stop when I'm full. To be done with 'shoulda, woulda, coulda'. To flush any personal labels down the toilet, and just be

That's beautiful.

 

[ChristineM]

Freedom is sending an overfed brontosaurus to take a dump on someone's front steps ;-)

For me selling the company gave me freedom of the responsibilities involved.

Paying off the mortgage, another step to freedom.

Driving around a race track taking the car to it's limit is freedom.

Being free to go into town and look around.

Heading out with the children for a picnic brealfast is freedom.

And getting the children into bed before 10pm just to give me a little me time freedom

 

[Quagmire]

Freedom is sending an overfed brontosaurus to take a dump on someone's front steps ;-)

I love Janis Joplin. I can't remember how the rest of that song goes though.

 

[ChristineM]

I love Janis Joplin. I can't remember how the rest of that song goes though.

So do i and neither can i, maybe

 

[Secret Chief]

freedom from the past
freedom from the future
freedom from big dumps

 

[sun rise]

What's freedom like for you?

Interesting question. In 2010 I wrote the following to express what real freedom feels like when I experienced just a whiff:

The Prisoner

From the unseen
a wispy wave
of light
emerges.

Curving round,
it touches my heart,
surrounds and
penetrates it.

Suddenly
my heart leaps
toward the light...

only to fall back.

A sigh emerges
from the cage...

still trapped.

The jail break
foiled by the
most skillful jailer:

myself.

But
there's a slight smile:
the prisoner notices
the cage is a wee bit
thinner.

The hope candle
burns in the
darkness...

next time.

 

[osgart]

There can be no just law against virtues. Virtues are freedom. Innocence is freedom. When want and desire is only good and just then a person is free. Having a healthy passion for virtues is freedom because then a person will only want what is deserving and best for everybody and themselves.

Freedom comes from within the heart and extends to goodwill toward others. It's hatred, lying deceit and arrogance that are bondage and contrary opposite to freedom because they are baseless, and senseless desires that cannot be justified and have no peace with others. Arrogance is cruel and destroys freedom and causes tyranny. Arrogance is selfish want of glory and power and is only selfish, and humility is freedom and has selfless qualities.
Humility is seeing one's self in truth and accepting one's self justly. Truth is in accordance with virtue, and is freedom for the upright. There's no freedom otherwise.

 

[Heyo]

Freedom. What is it, anyways?

Some might think its the right to do whatever you want;

I think it's the right to not do whatever others want from me.

 

[Quagmire]

So do i and neither can i, maybe

Or maybe it was Jurassic Joplin.

 

[syo]

Freedom. What is it, anyways?

To say yes or no whenever you like.

 

[mangalavara]

Freedom. What is it, anyways?

A simple definition of freedom is ‘not being in bondage.’

I tend to think its an attitude.

That sounds about right. My view is that freedom is an inner state. It has exterior signs.

you won't bring me down mentally or physically, buddy.

This sounds like evenness of mind. When you have evenness of mind, you are free.

Some of my most restricted times I was alone in a dwelling that I paid for, feeling crushed by my own miseries, unable to function.

There was no evenness of mind there, hence bondage.

I remembered back to my own days of opening a beverage, the sudden 'release', and feeling the 'freedom' pouring in... But, it wasn't real freedom; just borrowed(and I'd have to pay it back).

This is well said. If ‘freedom’ comes from something physical, it is borrowed or illusory.

Anymore, I think that's what I strive for. Freedom.

You can strive for it, and you may or may not reach that goal in this life. Bhagavatī is called Sarvārtha Sādhikā, the Accomplisher of All Goals. In my case, I am now letting her ‘accomplish’ it for me.

Anything that is inaccurate in this reply is my mistake.

 

[vulcanlogician]

I know I said the word 'freedom', but this is about personal freedom, and is not a political discussion. If anyone tries to turn this into something political, I will send an overfed brontosaurus to take a dump on your front steps.

But we can turn it into a religious discussion can't we?

So many religions talk of "liberation" and "freedom"... (Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity)... but when you look at the general message of these religions it's always "restrict your actions"... "don't do this"... "don't do that." How is that freedom?

The only major religion that I've encountered that TRULY (appears to) preach freedom is Taoism. And even with Taoism, there seem to be these implicit prohibitions buried everywhere in the texts. Nothing is OVERTLY prohibited... but, of course, "the sage" would never do such-and-such a thing. Taoism manages to pull it off by (ultimately) saying that seeking sagehood too much is a fools errand. But even Taoism seems to be anti-freedom in some regards.

Not that atheism fares any better. As an atheist, I feel like I am free in some ways, but yet unfree in others. Perhaps the religious folks are free of certain things that keep me in bondage? But it's also pretty obvious that the religious folks are in bondage too. Mental bondage. They can't even think outside of their own doctrine.

There is a certain paradox inherent to the concept of freedom. You could join some Hindu cult and be "free" of the hassles of daily decision-making... because you've handed all that over to some guru. But, at the same time, you've lost freedom because you've handed all your decision-making over to some guru.

 

[JustGeorge]

A simple definition of freedom is ‘not being in bondage.’



That sounds about right. My view is that freedom is an inner state. It has exterior signs.



This sounds like evenness of mind. When you have evenness of mind, you are free.



There was no evenness of mind there, hence bondage.



This is well said. If ‘freedom’ comes from something physical, it is borrowed or illusory.



You can strive for it, and you may or may not reach that goal in this life. Bhagavatī is called Sarvārtha Sādhikā, the Accomplisher of All Goals. In my case, I am now letting her ‘accomplish’ it for me.

I probably won't. I'm an under achiever.

I hope she gets the task done for you.

But we can turn it into a religious discussion can't we?

Absolutely!

So many religions talk of "liberation" and "freedom"... (Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity)... but when you look at the general message of these religions it's always "restrict your actions"... "don't do this"... "don't do that." How is that freedom?

The only major religion that I've encountered that TRULY (appears to) preach freedom is Taoism. And even with Taoism, there seem to be these implicit prohibitions buried everywhere in the texts. Nothing is OVERTLY prohibited... but, of course, "the sage" would never do such-and-such a thing. Taoism manages to pull it off by (ultimately) saying that seeking sagehood too much is a fools errand. But even Taoism seems to be anti-freedom in some regards.

Not that atheism fares any better. As an atheist, I feel like I am free in some ways, but yet unfree in others. Perhaps the religious folks are free of certain things that keep me in bondage? But it's also pretty obvious that the religious folks are in bondage too. Mental bondage. They can't even think outside of their own doctrine.

There is a certain paradox inherent to the concept of freedom. You could join some Hindu cult and be "free" of the hassles of daily decision-making... because you've handed all that over to some guru. But, at the same time, you've lost freedom because you've handed all your decision-making over to some guru.

I suspect that in any religion, a person can get hung up on the do/don't do aspects. Its a personal trait, I think; you can get hung up on perfection, or on a philosophy, and let it overrule you. I wouldn't think an atheist immune to do/don't do rules, its just that they may come from another place.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Finding someone I can trust to come to my house and feed and water my lovebirds every day when I want to go away for a week or more.

That's heavenly freedom, to me.

(I actually have someone to do that, and my dog gets boarded with the vet. I've now got it all and life is good.)

 

[SalixIncendium]

Freedom, for me, is what is left after letting go of attachment and desire.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Freedom. What is it, anyways?

It is an attempt to get rid of the negative aspects of control and unity: oppression, conformation, depression and other negative aspects. Control and unity are part of life and part of being a human, but there are bad things which come with them. Freedom is a place between where we attempt to find a compromise. To minimize the negative effects of unity and control you try things such as less control or less unity.

 

[vulcanlogician]

I suspect that in any religion, a person can get hung up on the do/don't do aspects. Its a personal trait, I think; you can get hung up on perfection, or on a philosophy, and let it overrule you. I wouldn't think an atheist immune to do/don't do rules, its just that they may come from another place.

I think you got that I was specifically making the point that atheists aren't immune. Of course, the do/don't rules come from somewhere else... but they're still there. Provided one cares.

And maybe that's my greater point. If you care about anything, you are henceforth unfree. At least in some regard.

You may care about Rama or Hanuman. Or you may care about what is objectively moral in a godless world. But, in either case, you are entertaining the possibility that it may be wisest to restrict oneself in some fashion. So where is freedom to be found?

That's why I've begun to think that freedom is a paradox. It doesn't contradict itself necessarily. But freedom doesn't make sense in a vacuum. You are free FROM SOMETHING. Freedom (in abstracto) makes absolutely zero sense.

 

[Stevicus]

What's freedom like for you?

(I know I said the word 'freedom', but this is about personal freedom, and is not a political discussion. If anyone tries to turn this into something political, I will send an overfed brontosaurus to take a dump on your front steps.)

Well, I guess freedom on a personal level is better than being in prison. Of course, no one can ever have total freedom, but being able to move freely in society and go wherever one chooses is freedom. That's the main thing. Anything beyond that is more a matter of human rights, which then becomes political, though I'd better not continue, as I don't want any unexpected visits from an overfed brontosaurus.