Fundamentalist Atheists

[technomage]

My favorite term for people in the more advanced stages of emotion based anti-theism is "Religiophobe".

While I also find the irony amusing, I fear I can't really agree with the term "religiophobe," for the same reason I can't agree with the term "homophobe" for those who oppose equality for gays. While I've met many "homophobes" (sic) who were motivated by despite or contempt, I've yet to see any that was motivated by fear.

The anti-theist, "New Atheist" crowd also seems to have no fear of theists or theism.

 

[Nimos]

The burden of proof is upon theism. There is no such thing as a burden of disproof.

I don't really agree that they shouldn't disproof. If you decide to attack someone else believe in the sense that they are wrong and you are right because you think its up to them to proof it, which is basically the only argument you have, since you yourself cant proof them wrong, why should they then bother try to proof what they are saying is true, when they have to trust your word for your claims, why shouldn't they expect the same of you?.

Defending the soundness of atheism as a viewpoint is simple - there is not enough evidence to merit belief in God - which is why such belief is referred to as 'faith'.

Depending on your view of God(s), if God created the universe, then yes there might not be proof of it here on earth at least not what we have discovered yet, but that doesn't mean that it ain't somewhere else. We are after all only one small planet in a huge universe. Taking it to the extreme, if we imagine that there are lots of universes and our is considered a young universe, there might be beings elsewhere which would be deities compared to us. Not claiming that's the case just saying that if you allow free thinking of possibilities of what a god or gods might be following our definitions of such. I think its just as bold to claim that no such thing exist as it is to say it does. But I do agree that an atheism viewpoint in regards to the religious writings as we know them, could easily be defended.

 

[Quagmire]

While I also find the irony amusing, I fear I can't really agree with the term "religiophobe," for the same reason I can't agree with the term "homophobe" for those who oppose equality for gays. While I've met many "homophobes" (sic) who were motivated by despite or contempt, I've yet to see any that was motivated by fear.

The anti-theist, "New Atheist" crowd also seems to have no fear of theists or theism.

I disagree: I suspect that the vast majority of truly vehement anti-theists have some version of the terrified altar boy lurking in their subconscious somewhere screaming, "We're going to hell! We're going to hell!".

Most of their "arguments" --- no matter how long-winded or elaborate --- really just boil down to different versions of "Shut up!!" aimed at him.

 

[Bunyip]

Haven't been watching recent science documentaries...have you?

Several high end scientists (sorry I'm not with names)are displaying their viewpoints.....
with logic, reason, and experiment.

They do believe in God.
They realize the 'proof' will be elusive.

They see the 'design'....they study the form.
It's not just biology.
It's theoretical physics.
It's mechanical physics.
It's every discipline.

More and more the indicators point to ...'Something'.....in control.

I'm afraid that yet again your assumptions are false.

I read a great deal of science and am fully aware that many great scientists are theists. The fact remains that their theism is not drawn from evidence, but from faith. There is no sound scientific case for god in any of the scientific literature.

If there are any indicators that 'something must be in control', so far no scientific research has been published to support that view. Morover there is no empirical, observational or experimental evidence whatsoever to indicate the necessity for such an agency.

Not in biology
Not in physics
Not in mechanical physics
Not in any field of science

If you disagree, please provide a citation to any published and peer reviewed scientific article you believe supports your position.

 

[technomage]

I disagree: I suspect that the vast majority of truly vehement anti-theists have some version of the terrified altar boy lurking in their subconscious somewhere screaming, "We're going to hell! We're going to hell!".

Most of their "arguments" --- no matter how long-winded or elaborate --- really just boil down to different versions of "Shut up!!" aimed at him.

Your experiences are different than mine ... and that's cool.

 

[Sunstone]

It seems to me that a lot of this hype about "anti-theists" comes from religious people who possess a sense of privilege that their religious views should not be criticized as harshly as, say, someone's political views are criticized. But what gives religion that privileged position?

 

[Quagmire]

Your experiences are different than mine ... and that's cool.

I've been here longer.

 

[icehorse]

I disagree: I suspect that the vast majority of truly vehement anti-theists have some version of the terrified altar boy lurking in their subconscious somewhere screaming, "We're going to hell! We're going to hell!".

Most of their "arguments" --- no matter how long-winded or elaborate --- really just boil down to different versions of "Shut up!!" aimed at him.

I'd say that anyone who isn't at least sad about mortality has a screw loose.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It seems to me that a lot of this hype about "anti-theists" comes from religious people who possess a sense of privilege that their religious views should not be criticized as harshly as, say, someone's political views are criticized. But what gives religion that privileged position?

Society in general makes it pretty clear that religious beliefs get special treatment and privileged status as " normal" and sacrosanct. When the standard view is that anyone who is vocal about being nontheistic is some type of deviant freak, it's easy to see why so many religious people see them as evil enemies of goodness whose criticisms of religion are nothing but malicious attacks on morality and normalcy.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Society in general makes it pretty clear that religious beliefs get special treatment and privileged status as " normal" and sacrosanct. When the standard view is that anyone who is vocal about being nontheistic is some type of deviant freak, it's easy to see why so many religious people see them as evil enemies of goodness whose criticisms of religion are nothing but malicious attacks on morality and normalcy.

Religion wouldn't bother me a bit if most of the religious didn't harbor such bizarre beliefs. I mean, even if those beliefs didn't impact the laws and our lives -- which they do -- I resent the fact that I can't communicate with my neighbors except by stepping delicately through a minefield of sacred ghosts, spirits, godmen, ancient miracles, holy books, jinn, whatever. What a barrier all of that can be sometimes.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Religion wouldn't bother me a bit if most of the religious didn't harbor such bizarre beliefs. I mean, even if those beliefs didn't impact the laws and our lives -- which they do -- I resent the fact that I can't communicate with my neighbors except by stepping delicately through a minefield of sacred ghosts, spirits, godmen, ancient miracles, holy books, jinn, whatever. What a barrier all of that can be sometimes.

The minefield is, in great part, the product of your deprecating attitude. The problem is you.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

The minefield is, in great part, the product of your deprecating attitude. The problem is you.

No, you're mistaken. The problem is people believing what they want to believe, no matter how bizarre, rather than what seems most true.

But thanks for your suggestion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The minefield is, in great part, the product of your deprecating attitude. The problem is you.

Do you think that AmbiguousGuy came up with the idea that religious beliefs should be exempt from criticism?

Heck - right now in your country, you have a significant number of people arguing that their religious beliefs shoukd be exempt from the law.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Do you think that AmbiguousGuy came up with the idea that religious beliefs should be exempt from criticism?

The thing is, I'm not really interested in criticizing religious beliefs. I just want to be able to talk to other people openly, honestly. But I can't do that because I'll brush against some sacred jewel and pretty soon lose another friend.

But it's not like that with me. I can't be offended by the other guy disagreeing with my beliefs. I think that's because I'm a skeptic and rationalist. If I have a belief which won't stand up to reason, it deserves what it gets in the open conversation of life.

That's mostly why I object to some or most religion. It can separate people intellectually, which translates into physical separation.

 

[illykitty]

I hardly ever talk about my beliefs. I very much keep them personal unless someone asks me. Some of my entourage thinks I'm strange for liking Paganism and most just don't care as long as it makes me happy. Majority of people I know aren't religious, including my family back in Canada.

I wonder, if the majority of people posting in this thread are from the US? It's very different depending on where you live. You don't really get that here.

In Europe there's a large amount of non-religious people. Heck even a vast amount of people who call themselves Christians here are pretty much just theistic "SBNR". Hardly Atheist bashing... The reverse is more likely.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I wonder, if the majority of people posting in this thread are from the US? It's very different depending on where you live. You don't really get that here.

Sometimes I'm happy to live among the heathen. It feeds my creativity and my lust for weirdness. (See Carson McCullers, for example.)

Other times, I get lonely.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I hardly ever talk about my beliefs. I very much keep them personal unless someone asks me. Some of my entourage thinks I'm strange for liking Paganism and most just don't care as long as it makes me happy. Majority of people I know aren't religious, including my family back in Canada.

I wonder, if the majority of people posting in this thread are from the US? It's very different depending on where you live. You don't really get that here.

I'm in Canada.

In Europe there's a large amount of non-religious people. Heck even a vast amount of people who call themselves Christians here are pretty much just theistic "SBNR". Hardly Atheist bashing... The reverse is more likely.

It seems to me that Europe is very varied. The experience of an atheist in Norway is probably going to be quite different from the experience of one in Italy, for instance.

... and don't get me started about the brands of theism that have political power in Russia, though it doesn't seem nearly as bad to be atheist there as it does to be LGBT (Russia's not part of the EU, I know, but it's technically part of Europe).

But even in the more secular parts of Europe, there seems to me to be a strange disconnect. Take the UK: yes, the religion of the average person might be mild, but you put up with violations of secularism that seem wild to me. You have a state religion, and your head of state is its leader. You have a portion of your House of Lords set aside for bishops. You have taxpayer-funded religious schools.

Speaking for myself, the fact that the Queen of Canada is also the head of the Church of England is a big part of why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy and making Canada a republic. But (at least from this side of the pond) it seems like Britons - and Europeans generally - don't care too much about the fact that their state religion that has largely been abandoned by the people continues to enjoy political power.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

The minefield is, in great part, the product of your deprecating attitude. The problem is you.

So you don't have anything else to talk to your neighbor about besides sacred ghosts, spirits, godmen, ancient miracles, holy books, jinn or whatever?

Stay away from discussing music, television, sports, politics or whatever. Because all those subjects can be minefields too.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Stay away from discussing music, television, sports, politics or whatever. Because all those subjects can be minefields too.

Only when there are true believers in the room... as with religion.

 

[Willamena]

So you don't have anything else to talk to your neighbor about besides sacred ghosts, spirits, godmen, ancient miracles, holy books, jinn or whatever?

Stay away from discussing music, television, sports, politics or whatever. Because all those subjects can be minefields too.

That advice should be directed at Guy.