Further explanation regarding new arsenic life-form from Nottingham University (Chemistry)

[Twilight Hue]

My favorite video professor from Nottingham U. explains this amazing discovery quite well in language us non-academia can digest and appreciate.

[youtube]rQ8jHM8QhU8[/youtube]
YouTube - Arsenic Life - Periodic Table of Videos

For me, its really expands our search parameters for life and the encouragement that various lifeforms are no longer limited to being molecularity phosphorus based of which now officially includes arsenic based molecular structures. I wonder if there could be even more variations we are not aware of. )(

Also, does this discovery affect your religious viewpoints, or natural outlook in any fashion? For me, its very encouraging that life may not be such a rarity after all in the universe. :yes:

 

[outhouse]

recently another scientist ripped that article for what it posted.

ive put off my thoughts until the air clears

 

[Midnight Pete]

Would the toxicity be mutual between carbon-based creatures (like humans) and these arsenic-based lifeforms?

 

[Reptillian]

Would the toxicity be mutual between carbon-based creatures (like humans) and these arsenic-based lifeforms?

I would imagine that phosphorous would be quite poisonous to a lifeform with an arsenic biochemistry. Phosphorous is one of the most abundant minerals in the human body and it is contained in a lot of our foods. I would think that our environment and food would be quite deadly for such an alien, as theirs would be for us.

 

[outhouse]

not sure i understand your question.

we do know life forms in the bottom of the sea that live around the sulfur vents that spew out hot water

we know life forms in geothermal vents with alkaline and acidic mud puddles

I would not see a big difference with arsenic

 

[painted wolf]

Would the toxicity be mutual between carbon-based creatures (like humans) and these arsenic-based lifeforms?

They aren't "arsenic based" they are ordinary Earth bacteria that happen to be able to utilize arsenic better than other living things do.

The reason arsenic is toxic is because it binds irreparably in the place of phosphorous... these critters can unbind arsenic.

It's a very cool paper and a very cool discovery... if it can be verified... but it's another example of the media over-hyping.

wa:do

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's a very cool paper and a very cool discovery... if it can be verified... but it's another example of the media over-hyping.

wa:do

In what manner is it being over-hyped IYO? Is this due to tests performed in an enriched arsenic environment containing less and less phosphorus in each successive test, as opposed to an all arsenic environment?

Oh, as a side note out of curiosity, If you know, is it whole or in part due to the fact that the arsenic molecule can accommodate four oxygen same as the phosphorus molecule that life is possible? In other words, the four oxygen is required in the same configuration, but can vary in way of the element.

 

[painted wolf]

In what manner is it being over-hyped IYO? Is this due to tests performed in an enriched arsenic environment containing less and less phosphorus in each successive test, as opposed to an all arsenic environment?

There are a lot of questions about the methodology.
Here is one of several posts out there discussing the issue that bring up some very valid and interesting points.
RRResearch: My Letter to Science

The over hyping comes from people calling this "arsenic based life" and that it is totally alien to any other Earth life (both of which I've heard more than once).

Like I said, this is a cool find, if it can be verified.

Oh, as a side note out of curiosity, If you know, is it whole or in part due to the fact that the arsenic molecule can accommodate four oxygen same as the phosphorus molecule that life is possible? In other words, the four oxygen is required in the same configuration, but can vary in way of the element.

Essentially... arsenic and phosphorus are in the same elemental family. The bacteria needs a way to unbind the arsenic once it's incorporated.

wa:do

 

[outhouse]

I believe thats the same letter I read, it was medis hyped as well on the opposite side

 

[Nepenthe]

In what manner is it being over-hyped IYO? Is this due to tests performed in an enriched arsenic environment containing less and less phosphorus in each successive test, as opposed to an all arsenic environment?

As PW mentioned, the current paper A Bacterium That Can Grow by Using Arsenic Instead of Phosphorous, has been hyped by the media, and I argue it has been distorted by bad science reporting and some blame resides with NASA's hyperbolic reveal (remember ALH84001?). Disregarding the sillier reports that it's "alien life" there's also the fact that microbial use of arsenic has been touched on previously by Stolz and Oremland (the two involved with this current research)- they published a paper in '99 titled Bacterial Respiration of Arsenic and Selenium.

Besides her letter- as mentioned by PW- Prof. Redfield elaborates in great detail on her critique of the procedural problems: RRResearch: Arsenic-associated bacteria (NASA's claims) (It's only fair and important to say that some scientists who are critical of this paper are equally critical of Redfield's criticism. Just an fyi).

And as usual Carl Zimmer has written some excellent stuff on the controversy and he has compiled the criticisms of several microbiologists here: Of arsenic and aliens: What the critics said | The Loom | Discover Magazine

It's frustrating because it's a fascinating study and there's much more to investigate, but I think the public is given this mistaken view of scientific discoveries as either epic findings that will change life as we know it on one extreme, or as the fumbling failure of over funded lab coat wearing PhDs on the other extreme. I've argued similarly with the media portrayal of Ardipithecus ramidus. This microbial study is really really cool but I think the controversy gives a false impression of how the nuts and bolts and nitty-gritty of scientific inquiry really works.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Here's what my favorite video professor had to say about it.

[youtube]Z08_gtMz4EU[/youtube]
YouTube - When hype kills science

 

[allright]

I find it interesting that NASA has this "stunning news" right when congress is getting ready to cut their budget.
At least with the "moon rock" they had something from outer space.

 

[painted wolf]

Here's what my favorite video professor had to say about it.

Yes! That is my thoughts on the subject exactly!

wa:do