Gays in the military

[Agnostic75]

There is excellent evidence that allowing gays to join the U.S. military is acceptable. There would be no need to discuss whether or not allowing gays in the military has worked well in many other countries since it definitely has worked well in over 20 countries, including Britain, and Israel.

Even the majority of Republicans in the U.S. now support allowing gays in the military.

Jason Collins gay: Don’t listen to people who say a gay athlete will “divide a team.” People said the same dumb thing about the military. - Slate Magazine

in the years leading up to the 2011 repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell” and in the years since its demise, every last empirical argument has been dismantled, leaving only the moral and religious claims of anti-gay advocates in their place. So what are the lessons we can learn from the research and reality of ending DADT as we move into an era of openly gay professional athletes?

First, concerns about privacy in the showers, team cohesion, and mission effectiveness turn out to be unfounded. The data on this are overwhelming. A large body of military, organizational, psychological, and workplace research dating back to World War II shows that it’s not social cohesion but what researchers call “task cohesion” that matters to achieving a group mission. Berkeley psychologist Robert MacCoun, who contributed to a RAND Corp. study that the Pentagon commissioned when it first considered openly gay service in 1993, later published the results of an extensive review of 50 years of research covering nearly 200 publications. MacCoun concluded that “it is task cohesion, not social cohesion or group pride, that drives group performance. This conclusion is consistent with the results of hundreds of studies in the industrial-organizational psychology literature.” In other words, it’s a myth that group members have to share the same values, or even like each other, to work together effectively. The positive correlation between group cohesion and mission performance results not from affection but from group members being mutually committed to the task at hand.

Even if you’re skeptical of this research and believe that social cohesion matters, there’s no evidence that the presence of open gays undermines social cohesion in organizations like the military, the workplace, or sports teams. That’s especially true in today’s society, with acceptance of homosexuality at unprecedented levels. Of course, many group members may not like gay people. But as an empirical question—what is its impact on cohesion and effectiveness?—research shows it’s a nonissue.

John M. Shalikashvili - Data Must Rule the Debate on Gays in the Military

June 19, 2009

It is not just [over 20] foreign militaries that show service by openly gay individuals works. The U.S. military itself has had successful experiences. Enforcement of the ban was suspended without problems during the Persian Gulf War, and there were no reports of angry departures. A majority of U.S. service members say they know or believe that someone in their unit is gay, according to a 2006 Zogby International poll, and most of those who know of openly gay peers report no detriment to morale or cohesion. A recent study co-authored by Laura Miller of Rand Corp. found no correlation between a unit's readiness and whether known gays serve in it. And last year, four retired flag and general officers studied all available evidence and found that allowing gays to serve posed no risk to force readiness.

What Does the Empirical Research Say about the Impact of Openly Gay Service on the Military? | Palm Center

March 3, 2010

Dr. Nathaniel Frank

Research on openly gay service is extensive, and includes over half a century of evidence gathered by independent researchers and the U.S. military itself, as well as the study of the experience of foreign militaries. The U.S. military’s own researchers have consistently found that openly gay service does not undermine cohesion, and the military has repeatedly sought to condemn or suppress these conclusions when they emerged. Yet no research has ever shown that open homosexuality impairs military readiness. This fact has been acknowledged by the Government Accountability Office and by the Pentagon, which has said in response to evidence suggesting that openly gay service works that its policy is “inherently subjective in nature” and is the result of “professional Military judgment, not scientific or sociological analysis.”

 

[ChristineES]

I was in the Navy back in the 80s and early 90s, and there were gays in the military back then. Everyone knew and no one cared, that I know of. All people cared about is if people did their job or not. The only difference now is that it is legal (a good thing). It may have been illegal back then, but I don't recall except on one occasion when someone reported another person and I didn't know the people personally. And the "Don't ask, Don't tell" was a total joke since it was never a secret.

 

[Revoltingest]

I was very much in favor of gays serving openly in the military until I heard this powerful argument otherwise....
'Gays Too Precious To Risk In Combat,' Says General | Video | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

[no-body]

Bill Hicks got this:

"You never see my attitude in the press. That's what bugs me. You never see my point of view. For instance - gays in the military. Now, I don't know how y'all feel about it. Gays want to be in the military. Here's how I feel about it, alright? Anyone - DUMB ENOUGH - to want to be in the military should be allowed in. End of ******' story. That should be the only requirement. I don't care how many push-ups you can do, put on a helmet, go wait in that fox-hole, we'll tell you when we need you to kill somebody. Y'know what I mean? I'm so sick... I've watched these ******' congressional hearings, and all these military guys, and all the pundits, seriously "Oh, the esprit-de-corps will be affected, and we are such a moral..." Excuse me? Aren't y'all ******' hired killers? Shut up! You are thugs, and when we need you to go blow the **** out of a nation of little brown people, we'll let you know. Until then. Where did the ******* military get all these moral... "We are the military... Is that a village of children and kids? Where the napalm? I don't want any gay people hanging around me when I'm killing kids. I just don't wanna see it"."

 

[PolyHedral]

I was in the Navy back in the 80s and early 90s, and there were gays in the military back then. Everyone knew and no one cared, that I know of. All people cared about is if people did their job or not. The only difference now is that it is legal (a good thing). It may have been illegal back then, but I don't recall except on one occasion when someone reported another person and I didn't know the people personally. And the "Don't ask, Don't tell" was a total joke since it was never a secret.

Amusingly, I have heard fourth-hand that, back in the grand old days of the British Empire, homosexuality of any sort was illegal, except under one circumstance.

Spoiler: The one place where it was legal?

After 90 days at sea.

:cover:

 

[Agnostic75]

Consider the following:

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/art...4/Ex-senator-changes-mind-on-gays-in-military

December 9, 2010

While most troops signaled they didn't care if gays served openly, nearly 60 percent of the Marine Corps and Army soldiers in combat arms units predicted problems would arise.

"My suspicions are that the law will be repealed" eventually, Marine Corps Commandant James Amos told a Senate panel. "All I'm asking is the opportunity to do that at a time and choosing when my Marines are not singularly tightly focused on what they're doing in a very deadly environment."

That was about two and a half years ago. Research has shown that generally, people who predicted problems were wrong.