Gaza: Comparing Egypt's blockade to Israel's?

[Alceste]

These are strawman arguments.



See my answer to Luis. These are all fine ideas, none of which will be possible as long as Hamas is in power. You are mischaracterizing Hamas when you suggest they are interested in actions like "economic development".

I think Israel should work with the PA, not Hamas. Coming to a peaceful resolution in the WB would have significant spillover effects in Gaza, especially if the region were included as part of a new Palestinian state.

Of course, Israel would have to lay off the illegal settlement expansion to make any progress with the PA, and they have shown no willingness to do so under Netanyahu. So not only do we need to get rid of Hamas, but also the brutal, racist idiots on the Israeli side of the equation.

 

[Alceste]

It's their arab leadership that is responsible for the blown up kids by placing them in places where they would be blown up.

Nobody believes Israel is incapable of not bombing children, Mike. Doesn't matter how often you blame Hamas for the hundreds of children Israel has murdered. It will never become a compelling argument.

 

[CMike]

I think Israel should work with the PA, not Hamas. Coming to a peaceful resolution in the WB would have significant spillover effects in Gaza, especially if the region were included as part of a new Palestinian state.

Of course, Israel would have to lay off the illegal settlement expansion to make any progress with the PA, and they have shown no willingness to do so under Netanyahu. So not only do we need to get rid of Hamas, but also the brutal, racist idiots on the Israeli side of the equation.

There is no such thing as illegal housing for jews. I realize the pro-"palestinians" are into ethnic cleaning, however, jews can live where they want.

If anything what happened in gaza proves what Israel shouldn't do in the west bank.

Israel completely withdrew from Gaza. It forced jews out of their homes.

What did it get for it?

The gaza government spent the billions of dollars given to them for aid for schools, housing, and hospitals, and the general welfar of the people for terror runnels and missiles.

If anything that should make Israel think numerous times of completely pullout out of the west bank.

The arabs living in judea and samaria could have had peace at any time if they simply recognized Israel's right to exist and stopped trying to murder as many civilians as possible.

Since they didn't stop doing this Israel has had to do what they need to do to protect their citizens.

 

[CMike]

Nobody believes Israel is incapable of not bombing children, Mike. Doesn't matter how often you blame Hamas for the hundreds of children Israel has murdered. It will never become a compelling argument.

Since the terrorists intentionally use children as human shields how do you suggest that Israel stop the terrorists from shooting rockets into it's cities?

 

[Alceste]

There is no such thing as illegal housing for jews. I realize the pro-"palestinians" are into ethnic cleaning, however, jews can live where they want.

If anything what happened in gaza proves what Israel shouldn't do in the west bank.

Israel completely withdrew from Gaza. It forced jews out of their homes.

What did it get for it?

The gaza government spent the billions of dollars given to them for aid for schools, housing, and hospitals, and the general welfar of the people for terror runnels and missiles.

If anything that should make Israel think numerous times of completely pullout out of the west bank.

The arabs living in judea and samaria could have had peace at any time if they simply recognized Israel's right to exist and stopped trying to murder as many civilians as possible.

Since they didn't stop doing this Israel has had to do what they need to do to protect their citizens.

Nobody on earth can "live wherever they want". There are borders and property ownership issues to deal with. And yes, the settlements are illegal under international law, which is my standard for what is or is not illegal.

 

[Alceste]

Since the terrorists intentionally use children as human shields how do you suggest that Israel stop the terrorists from shooting rockets into it's cities?

The IDF routinely uses human shields. Should I then support Hamas lobbing rockets into Israeli schools and hospitals?

Survivors of massacre in Khuza'a say Israeli forces using Palestinians as human shields

Edit: one more for good measure. http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-troops-used-11-year-old-boy-as-human-shield-in-gaza-1.272716

 

[CMike]

Nobody on earth can "live wherever they want". There are borders and property ownership issues to deal with. And yes, the settlements are illegal under international law, which is my standard for what is or is not illegal.

That's because the the international community is sick in the head.

The arabs controls it.

No where do they condemn the thousands of syrian citizens killed by syria.

No where do they condemn that the Hamas government shooting rockets into Israel and using their own citizens as human shields.

No where do they condemn Iran for murdering tens of thousands of Iranians.

The only nation they can condemn is the one small jewish state in the world.

Jews can live where they want. That is difficult for people whom people in ethnic cleansing to understand.

 

[Alceste]

That's because the the international community is sick in the head.

The arabs controls it.

No where do they condemn the thousands of syrian citizens killed by syria.

No where do they condemn that the Hamas government shooting rockets into Israel and using their own citizens as human shields.

No where do they condemn Iran for murdering tens of thousands of Iranians.

The only nation they can condemn is the one small jewish state in the world.

Jews can live where they want. That is difficult for people whom people in ethnic cleansing to understand.

Are you blind? How are you not noticing the universal condemnation in the Western media of Syria, Iran, Hamas, the Taliban, et al? It is almost as if you aren't even reading mainstream media to formulate your opinions, but only ranting blogs written by others who share your quite frankly deranged fantasies of persecution and anti-Arab hatred.

But here, have a good long browse through the reports of Human Rights Watch (one of my primary sources of credible information) to see who they've got their eye on, and why. Let me know if you end up feeling like they've missed anybody.

Human Rights Watch | Defending Human Rights Worldwide

 

[CMike]

Are you blind? How are you not noticing the universal condemnation in the Western media of Syria, Iran, Hamas, the Taliban, et al? It is almost as if you aren't even reading mainstream media to formulate your opinions, but only ranting blogs written by others who share your quite frankly deranged fantasies of persecution and anti-Arab hatred.

But here, have a good long browse through the reports of Human Rights Watch (one of my primary sources of credible information) to see who they've got their eye on, and why. Let me know if you end up feeling like they've missed anybody.

Human Rights Watch | Defending Human Rights Worldwide

No I haven't noticed the UN condemning them.

Why don't you post the links?

This guy summarized it very well.

» The most epic speech every given at the UN, I am speechless

 

[CMike]

This is pretty good too.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152368175788717&set=vb.19793423716&type=2&theater

 

[Alceste]

No I haven't noticed the UN condemning them.

Why don't you post the links?

This guy summarized it very well.

» The most epic speech every given at the UN, I am speechless

That's just some random dude in the UN ranting the same nonsensical tirade you are ranting. It does not constitute evidence that the UN is ignoring the crimes of Hamas.

Pro tip: instead of simply looking for other fanatics who affirm your world view and linking to them as evidence that your world view is not fanatical, why not go to the source and try to determine whether or not you have a reasonable view?

Here, let me help:
Welcome to the United Nations

Look at that - very top of the right side bar, very first link. In focus: Syria.

And the slide show. We've got ISIS in Iraq, Ebola in W. Africa, a mental health event, a story of sanctions in Sudan, and a panel to investigate human rights violations in Gaza. Last. (And the article, which I read, is not critical of Israel. It doesn't even mention Israel. It's simply the announcement of a panel that will investigate "all violations of international humanitarian law" in Gaza, which any reasonable person would take to mean war crimes committed by both sides of the conflict.)

Then, back on the front page, "in the news", we've got Libya, Afghanistan and Somalia.

Do you want to tell me again how the UN is unfairly singling out Israel for criticism and ignoring everybody else?

 

[Alceste]

This is pretty good too.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152368175788717&set=vb.19793423716&type=2&theater

I'm so not clicking a link to Facebook as evidence. Really?

That tells me so much about where you are getting your information.

 

[CMike]

Figures

 

[Alceste]

Figures

"Figures?" That's it? You have no personal standard for assessing the credibility of evidence?

 

[CMike]

You didn't even look at it yet.

 

[MD]

Reading here how liberals defend Islamist organizations like Hamas reminds me of the leftists who supported the Islamists during the Iranian revolution. When Khomeini came to power, he killed all the leftists first, even before the Shah's men. Thousands in a few days.

Your defense of Hamas is disgusting because you use the freedom of nations to support another form of fascism. But Islamists hate you more than they hate any Israeli or Christian because you represent, or you at least should represent, freedom.

The most surprising are the Jewish liberals here who support Hamas, when Hamas probably hates you the most.

 

[Avi1001]

This is pretty good too.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152368175788717&set=vb.19793423716&type=2&theater

I looked at it CMike, and it's nothing great. It is a public relations video created by a group called IDC:

IDC fights war on another front | JPost | Israel News

It's not well documented..in other words it's propaganda.

I think Hamas is terrible, but this video is worthless.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Reading here how liberals defend Islamist organizations like Hamas reminds me of the leftists who supported the Islamists during the Iranian revolution. When Khomeini came to power, he killed all the leftists first, even before the Shah's men. Thousands in a few days.

Your defense of Hamas is disgusting because you use the freedom of nations to support another form of fascism. But Islamists hate you more than they hate any Israeli or Christian because you represent, or you at least should represent, freedom.

The most surprising are the Jewish liberals here who support Hamas, when Hamas probably hates you the most.

Opposing Israel's crimes against humanity does not equal supporting Hamas. The Palestinians, as an occupied and oppressed people, do have the moral right to use force to defend themselves against their oppressors but an Islamist group is not the right choice. However, the Israeli government and military is much worse than Hamas is.

 

[MD]

Opposing Israel's crimes against humanity does not equal supporting Hamas. The Palestinians, as an occupied and oppressed people, do have the moral right to use force to defend themselves against their oppressors but an Islamist group is not the right choice. However, the Israeli government and military is much worse than Hamas is.

As a matter of principle I will always support brutal secular governments over anything Islamist, which is why I support Assad. I've seen what Islamist governments do after they come to power.

Even though it was a shame that a few hundred children had to die in Palestine, thousands of children have been killed by Islamists in Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. Tens of thousands of minorities have been wiped off the face of the planet in Iran.

If the tables were turned, Hamas would have levelled Israel to the ground.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

As a matter of principle I will always support brutal secular governments over anything Islamist, which is why I support Assad. I've seen what Islamist governments do after they come to power.

Even though it was a shame that a few hundred children had to die in Palestine, thousands of children have been killed by Islamists in Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. Tens of thousands of minorities have been wiped off the face of the planet in Iran.

If the tables were turned, Hamas would have levelled Israel to the ground.

No, those children didn't have to die.