Gender Apartheid

[Ignatius A]

Can you rephrase that in light of what you quoted:


I can't see the relevance of your answer to my questions?

Sure. You hate Israel and want Jews to sit.down and shut up. I have asked you people a million times what EXACTLY should Israels response be hamas war crimes. Please don't tell me about Israels war crimes tell me EXACTLY how they should respond to hamas war crimes. If you can't or won't do that dont reply to me.

I never expected you to.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Sure. You hate Israel and want Jews to sit.down and shut up.

Please quote Mikkel the Dane saying either of these things, or else you are making further false allegations.

 

[Ignatius A]

Please quote Mikkel the Dane saying either of these things, or else you are making further false allegations.

I've asked all you people to tell me EXACTLY what Israels response to hamas war crimes should be. As if this moment not one of you has answered the question. What I usually get is whining about Israels war crimes but never a cogent answer to my question.

I really do wish your admonishment mattered to me.

 

[icehorse]

I do not see it. Human societies have been horrifically unequal as well as patriarchal for millennia. Only sustainable reforms and development have been through natural, internal processes within the society itself. Quick huge shifts are usually disastrous.

We've been experiencing huge shifts for the last, what?, 100 years or so. Some good, some bad.

We've arrived at the point where cataclysmic, society-ending, ecological overshoot will be hard to avoid, and we're mostly living in a worldwide oligarchy. And oligarchs are notoriously short-sighted, they act as though the planet is infinitely ####-with-able.

We no longer have time to wait for "natural processes" to right these wrongs.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Sure. You hate Israel and want Jews to sit.down and shut up. I have asked you people a million times what EXACTLY should Israels response be hamas war crimes. Please don't tell me about Israels war crimes tell me EXACTLY how they should respond to hamas war crimes. If you can't or won't do that dont reply to me.

I never expected you to.

They, Israel, should use another tactic than advance by fire in the current form and how they otherwise use fire.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I've asked all you people to tell me EXACTLY what Israels response to hamas war crimes should be.

I've answered this question repeatedly. Do you believe war crimes are a valid response to war crimes, or no?

As if this moment not one of you has answered the question.

That's another false statement. I've answered it multiple times. And even if others haven't, what bearing does that have on whether or not the response Israel HAS had is justified, legal or proportionate?

What I usually get is whining about Israels war crimes but never a cogent answer to my question.

That's also false.

I really do wish your admonishment mattered to me.

I'm sure it won't. People who are pro-war crimes, like you, tend not to be very receptive to basic moral principles.

Still awaiting an apology for the multiple false claims you have made about me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Sure. You hate Israel and want Jews to sit.down and shut up. I have asked you people a million times what EXACTLY should Israels response be hamas war crimes. Please don't tell me about Israels war crimes tell me EXACTLY how they should respond to hamas war crimes. If you can't or won't do that dont reply to me.

I never expected you to.

So you are irrational as you don't understand the basics of making a justified and rational answer. You don't under the basics of logic and that is a part of being rational and a part of the history of the word justification.

 

[Ignatius A]

I've answered this question repeatedly. Do you believe war crimes are a valid response to war crimes, or no?


That's another false statement. I've answered it multiple times. And even if others haven't, what bearing does that have on whether or not the response Israel HAS had is justified, legal or proportionate?


That's also false.


I'm sure it won't. People who are pro-war crimes, like you, tend not to be very receptive to basic moral principles.

Still awaiting an apology for the multiple false claims you have made about me.

Point to where you answered it. Whining about israels war crimes is not an answer.

You don't know who Rumpelstiltskin is do you?

 

[Ignatius A]

So you are irrational as you don't understand the basics of making a justified and rational answer. You don't under the basics of logic and that is a part of being rational and a part of the history of the word justification.

So you can't or won't tell me EXACTLY what Israels response should be to the hamas war crimes perpetrated against them. Figured.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So you can't or won't tell me EXACTLY what Israels response should be to the hamas war crimes perpetrated against them. Figured.

They, Israel, should use another tactic than advance by fire in the current form and how they otherwise use fire.

See, I answered. As for exactly I can't do that as I am not the head of the Israeli Army and thus I can't do that as to the exact way they should do it.

 

[Ignatius A]

See, I answered. As for exactly I can't do that as I am not the head of the Israeli Army and thus I can't do that as to the exact way they should do it.

Ok what's, "the other tactic"? Go house to house asking the good citizens of Gaza to assist them in finding the "bad guys"? You have a brain right? Use it. It's Oct 7 and 1200 jews were just killed. What should Israel do next? You have enough "expertise" to decide Israels response wasn't good but suddenly you're not the head of the IDF.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Ok what's, "the other tactic"? Go house to house asking the good citizens of Gaza to assist them in finding the "bad guys"? You have a brain right? Use it. It's Oct 7 and 1200 jews were just killed. Israel should do what next?

In general, you get closer to the enemy and accept more own loses if you don't rely on movement by fire.

 

[Ignatius A]

In general, you get closer to the enemy and accept more own loses if you don't rely on movement by fire.

So Israel should get closer to Hamas and accept that more Israelis will be killed as a result of doing so. Do I understand you correctly there?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So Israel should get closer to Hamas and accept that more Israelis will be killed as a result of doing so. Do I understand you correctly there?

Yes, that is one way of avoiding the current problem of war crimes as due to the current Israeli tactics.

 

[Ignatius A]

Yes, that is one way of avoiding the current problem of war crimes as due to the current Israeli tactics.

Ok so Israel needs to accept that more jews will be killed and when that happens they should get closer to hamas. Correct?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Ok so Israel needs to accept that more jews will be killed and when that happens they should get closer to hamas. Correct?

I don't control what Israel needs to do or not. Neither do you. You asked if there is another way and I answer as honestly and correct as I can. That is it. But yes, it would mean more dead Israeli soldiers. What that has to do with Jews I don't know because you can be a Jew without being an Israeli soldier.

 

[icehorse]

The fact that you are refusing to see it or acknowledge it is what makes me suspect that the point you're actually trying to make is more in line with the point the video makes then you're admitting, which is not "Care about this", but "Care about this instead of that".

Your suspicions are inaccurate.

You might want to brush up on your debate tactics a bit then, because throwing up straw man arguments and dancing around other people's questions doesn't exactly scream "Open and honest".

I think a more accurate assessment of our exchange so far would be that - despite my repeated attempts to clarify - you've got it in your head that I'm being disingenuous.

What you might have done instead of guessing, was to ask a question something like:

"If your point was about misogyny, why did you include the Maher video?"

To which I might have responded:

"An ongoing issue at RF is that of providing citations. My sense is that often such requests are not in good faith, but are instead attempts to deflect or redirect the conversation. With that in mind, I thought I'd provide the Maher video - AT THE END OF THE OP - as a way to forestall requests for citations. In retrospect, I probably should have explained that in the OP. But one thing to notice is that there have been no requests for citations concerning the long list of claims made in the OP. So I view that as an indication that adding the video did indeed forestall citation distractions."

Zooming way out, one trend I see on RF is posters GUESSING as opposed to ASKING, as a practice, guessing is extremely flawed.

 

[Ignatius A]

I don't control what Israel needs to do or not. Neither do you. You asked if there is another way and I answer as honestly and correct as I can. That is it. But yes, it would mean more dead Israeli soldiers. What that has to do with Jews I don't know because you can be a Jew without being an Israeli soldier.

I'm not asking to control anything or anyone. I am however genuinely fascinated by your candor. Thank you. Yes you can be a jew without being an Israeli soldier. What I'm wondering though is do you think it's feasible for hamas to kill only Israeli soldiers? They didn't seem capable of or willing to do so on Oct 7 but maybe they were so angry at being victims of Israel that they just didnt bother to try and only kill Israeli soldiers. We agree I hope that hamas killing Jewish civilians is a war crime correct? But I'll cede that hamas was angry on Oct 7 but going forward their killing jewish civilians would be a war crime correct?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not asking to control anything or anyone. I am however genuinely fascinated by your candor. Thank you. Yes you can be a jew without being an Israeli soldier. What I'm wondering though is do you think it's feasible for hamas to kill only Israeli soldiers? They didn't seem capable of or willing to do so on Oct 7 but maybe they were so angry at being victims of Israel that they just didnt bother to try and only kill Israeli soldiers. We agree I hope that hamas killing Jewish civilians is a war crime correct? But I'll cede that hamas was angry on Oct 7 but going forward their killing jewish civilians would be a war crime correct?

I am not going to answer that post of yours as long as you have to make it about now, Hamas and their war crimes.

Go wide and start with the early modern immigration of Jews into the area. And then get a feel about how the 2 sides view it and each other.

 

[sayak83]

We've been experiencing huge shifts for the last, what?, 100 years or so. Some good, some bad.

We've arrived at the point where cataclysmic, society-ending, ecological overshoot will be hard to avoid, and we're mostly living in a worldwide oligarchy. And oligarchs are notoriously short-sighted, they act as though the planet is infinitely ####-with-able.

We no longer have time to wait for "natural processes" to right these wrongs.

Huge shifts in technology, but not in society or socio-political thinking. You are forgetting how long it took for women to gain voting rights in the West. How further for women to gain economic independence (a forced move during the world wars).In much of the developing world, even democracy is not there. And there is a surplus of labor. Unless there is a transition to a highly industrial economy with large labor requirements along with a concurrent movement in democracy, you won't find women's rights improve much in most of these countries.