Gender Apartheid

[icehorse]

If I rewrite that as a logical deduction, then it is invalid. As for sound it is not even close.

Well you're a relativist and I'm mostly not.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well you're a relativist and I'm mostly not.

Yeah, but that has nothing to do with logic as such or even truth in some sense.

 

[Estro Felino]

YOU are the one who said "chickens for the KFC movement" regarding LGBT people supporting anti-LGBT Palestine. So what's the difference then? Why are you exempt? Why is it okay for you to support anti-LGBT groups or people, despite being trans?

I live in a secular, Western country.
Where the State protects LGBT people.

 

[Father Heathen]

I live in a secular, Western country.
Where the State protects LGBT people.

That didn't answer my question, but again, you support people and parties who would remove those protections.

 

[Estro Felino]

That didn't answer my question, but again, you support people and parties who would remove those protections.

The topic here is about the so called "LGBT for Palestine".

 

[Quagmire]

Could you be a little more ambiguous?

What I mean is: given your lack of a clear debate topic, I'm not reading your answer as an invitation to debate so much as a declaration that you intend to resume your campaign against Islam.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The UDHR was accepted by the general assembly of the UN. That is the right authority to do so. They also have the right to reprimand members who don't hold to what they have agreed to.

I'll take it under advisement.

 

[icehorse]

What I mean is: given your lack of a clear debate topic, I'm not reading your answer as an invitation to debate so much as a declaration that you intend to resume your campaign against Islam.

The Gaza situation is muddying a lot of waters. Once again, if we can avoid Gaza in this thread:

I think misogyny is one of the world's biggest problems. And yes, I largely blame Islam.

As for "campaign", I'm triggered, offended, and feel you're not fostering a safe space by that word choice.

 

[Quagmire]

The Gaza situation is muddying a lot of waters. Once again, if we can avoid Gaza in this thread:

Where did I mention Gaza in that post?

I think misogyny is one of the world's biggest problems. And yes, I largely blame Islam.

Still not entirely clear on what it is you want to debate.

As for "campaign", I'm triggered, offended, and feel you're not fostering a safe space by that word choice.

I'm sure you'll get over it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

This identity politics is unlisteneable.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[Jimmy]

In my opinion all nations should immediately withdraw their support of Jews and Palestinians and let them sort out their own problems instead of dragging the whole world down with them.

 

[Father Heathen]

The topic here is about the so called "LGBT for Palestine".

No it isn't, and even if it was, it doesn't excuse double standards, my sweet pro-KFC chicken.

 

[icehorse]

Still not entirely clear on what it is you want to debate.

I have made several very clear, oft-times controversial claims. If you agree with them, then we have nothing to debate. But others might disagree

 

[Kathryn]

Around the world, hundreds of millions of women in Muslim majority regions live under a "gender apartheid". (The video below makes a series of factual claims about this situation.)

Some specifics about life for women in these regions:

- In many regions, women do not have the right to show their faces.
- In Iran women are subject to constant surveillance, beatings, sexual violence, and detention
- In Vancouver, a Muslim woman was beaten by her husband for taking her Hijab off inside her own home. She describes being forced to wear the Hijab as like living in a portable sensory deprivation chamber..
- In many of these regions there are laws requiring women to obey their husbands
- Women need a man's permission to move around town, work, study, access health care, and marry
- Honor killings still happen, when a woman commits the crime of being raped
- There are no laws against sexual harassment in the work place, no laws against domestic violence
- 20 countries have "marry your rapist" laws
- 30 countries practice female genital mutilation (FGM)
- 650 million women alive today were married as children

(For those of you tempted to respond with a knee-jerk "I don't like the speaker", remember, he's making a series of easily verifiable claims. Discipline yourselves to separate the message from the messenger.)

You might like the movie "The Stoning of Soroya M." It is very interesting and based very closely on a true story. The woman who played the wife of the general in House of Sand and Fog plays the lead character.

 

[Quagmire]

I have made several very clear, oft-times controversial claims.

Well, so far the most controversial claim I see is where you say that I keep mentioning Gaza.

Controversial because I just reread all of my posts and I haven't mentioned Gaza once in this thread.

I think it's a bit strange that you keep asking me not to cloud the issue by bringing up something I've never brought up in the first place.

But I'm sure you have your reasons.

If you agree with them, then we have nothing to debate. But others might disagree

You really think you're going to find somebody in this thread whos in favor of apartheid?

The unlikelihood of that ever happening makes your professed intentions for this thread even less believable.

 

[Revoltingest]

I did answer. You don't seem to like it.

Because it didn't answer my question.

I really do wish that mattered to me but it doesn't. Its terrible that Palestinians are being killed just like it's terrible that Jews are killed. Can we agree on that point or not?

Sure.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yet millions of American women and trans people come out in support of "Palestine". It's mind numbing how utterly illogical some people are.

That pinkwashing crap is played out. Like we're supposed to ignore the babies bombed to bits in tents because Israel (due to them being European in their culture) allows gays to kiss and hold hands (for now, wait until the Haredim take over the country).

Most cultures and countries don't treat women or what we call LGBT people that well. That's just how it is. Certainly none of the Abrahamic religions do due to their traditional teachings. Those are social and cultural issues, but that doesn't mean people don't deserve basic dignity regardless of their culture. However, Palestinians are an ethnic group, not a religious group. A lot of the ire is due to the taxpayer dollars of the US citizenry being used to commit atrocities and genocide against the people of Gaza and elsewhere. It's being done in our name and they're dragging our country to hell with them. History will remember this.

 

[sayak83]

Hmmm.. I just want to make sure I'm understanding you here:

Are you saying that human rights violations in other countries are not everyone's concern?

The concern has been primarily been used for cynical self interest driven political interventions....a trend that dates back hundreds of years to when destructive colonization was justified as a "civilizing mission".
If the Western countries ever become truly "concerned" about the socio-political" state of other parts of the world, here is a simple plan.
Stop supporting autocracies, however friendly, with arms sales or trade agreements consistently and coherently.Stop supporting aggressive and belligerent states even if they are allies. Interact and engage with states having fledgling democracies even if their socio-political outlook is different from yours. No other intervention unless it threatens a common good (ecological problems, terrorism, nuclear war, genocide etc). Allow social evolution to occur naturally through representative internal political processes, as it happened in Europe or USA . Accept if that evolution creates societies that are very different from Western perceptions. Avoiding trying to game the trajectory by external interference.
Very unlikely that any of this will happen..

 

[crossfire]

<...>

Many Muslim women do not mind that submissive role, with the good Muslim mothers teaching her sons to be abusive, to their future daughters in law. This is where the mothers in law, can control her son and get to be abusive; pecking order of abuse. To be able to keep the women down you need the older women to help reenforce the rules, for the younger people.

On this part we agree! The cultural nomos will only last as long as people continue to propagate it.

 

[Ignatius A]

That pinkwashing crap is played out. Like we're supposed to ignore the babies bombed to bits in tents because Israel (due to them being European in their culture) allows gays to kiss and hold hands (for now, wait until the Haredim take over the country).

Most cultures and countries don't treat women or what we call LGBT people that well. That's just how it is. Certainly none of the Abrahamic religions do due to their traditional teachings. Those are social and cultural issues, but that doesn't mean people don't deserve basic dignity regardless of their culture. However, Palestinians are an ethnic group, not a religious group. A lot of the ire is due to the taxpayer dollars of the US citizenry being used to commit atrocities and genocide against the people of Gaza and elsewhere. It's being done in our name and they're dragging our country to hell with them. History will remember this.

Anyone who supports Hamas will get no respect from me.