Generally speaking, are churches a scam?

[Heyo]

I find it amazing that some would so casually and callously dismiss the honest intent of millions upon millions of people. It reflects an astounding arrogance.

I think you misunderstood. It's not the millions who scam, it's only a few - but millions are being scammed.

 

[anotherneil]

Yes, absolutely.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think you misunderstood.

OK

 

[Muffled]

Generally I believe they are not a scam.

 

[Muffled]

Hmm.

I understand that dynamics vary everywhere, but from my experience in my town, it seems all the churches I know of and been to heavily emphasise tithing. Pretty much all the churches I've been to do the whole scam routine. It's a business model ya know? And it seemed to me that the Pastor always had his personal paycheck come out of the tithe (I've listened to Pastors defend their practice of doing this).

I believe tithing is a legitimate command of God and I believe people who labor ought to be paid by those receiving the services.

 

[Tomef]

Debate point: Generally speaking, are churches a scam?

My frame of reference is Christian churches in my part of USA.

I say yes, churches are a scam. From my experience, they promise blessings from God in return for tithes. I have sat through many sermons when I grew up Christian. Many of those sermons were dedicated to telling the congregation they needed to tithe more. Congregants were guaranteed God's blessing if they gave the church money, and conversely were guaranteed God's wrath if they didn't tithe properly. I've been to the Pastor's nice house paid for by the congregation. Seems like the church was funding his lax and comfortable lifestyle.

I understand that some churches do charitable work and tithes will go to that. But that is not the case, generally speaking (from my experience).

I also believe that people should be able to freely fund their place of worship.

Promising God's blessings in return for cash and guaranteeing God's wrath due to lack of tithing is the name of the game though. And it often ends up with the Pastor acquiring a nice car.

It's a big scam I say!

Why make this thread? To make a fuss for the sake of making a fuss? Partly... But also, I think it is important to call out scams. Church is a blatant scam that is protected by society.

Some of them are genuine communities of like-minded people, who contribute to the running costs mostly willingly, have open books and financial planning meetings as a congregation etc. Some are scams of a sort, though. I mean there are the obvious TV evangelist types in the US, and some ‘megachurch’ pastors who are self-evidently milking their ‘flocks’, but also the heavy on fire and brimstone types seem to me like institutes of blackmail, very skilful at getting people to go along with threats of hell fire and judgement. When information about rampant child abuse in Catholic institutions in Ireland became public, for example, Fintan O’Toole writes that many parents were so conditioned by the church that they were more concerned about the priests than about the kids.

 

[Muffled]

It's a scam when they take advantage of their tax exempt status and use it for non-religious business ventures.

It sometimes becomes a gray area. The Archdiocese of Boston owned a great deal of real estate in Boston and earned rent but the charity function was that they kept the rent low and affordable something capitlalism tends not to do.

 

[metis]

A local Lutheran pastor wrote in a local paper here that church often does a disservice in that all so many go but don't seem to head the messages that well. They think they've accomplished a lot by going but in reality, have accomplished little by doing as such. It's as if church is some sort of spiritual washing machine, so all they have to do is to go. For some, it seems just a place to socialize.

I wonder what those in his congregation thought of this.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Debate point: Generally speaking, are churches a scam?

My frame of reference is Christian churches in my part of USA.

I think your example doesn't represent "generally speaking".