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German politician says: Ukraine will not win this war

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Wikipedia is a politically biased and influenced source which specialises in political hit pieces and disinformation.
You're hilarious.

I understand there's no point pursuing this any further with you,
And yet, your post continues...

'Independent' :tearsofjoy:
Yep.

I would never make any such claim from any source, but it certainly has some uncomfortable truths in it, did you know you support neo-nazi's in Ukraine, they even wear the SS insignia. There was a time when even the BBC told some truth, then they conveniently forgot about it.

Neo Nazi threat in Ukraine

Ukraine's most-feared volunteers

The far-right group threatening to overthrow Ukraine's government

Did your government forget to mention this to you?
"I don't believe your propaganda, I just believe what these random videos and films approved by the Kremlin say!"

Meanwhile, in reality, the existence of Neo-Nazis in Ukraine is hardly special. They exist in most countries. It just so happens that the Neo-Nazis in Ukraine have a helpful attribute of being vehemently anti-Russian (because, y'know, the history of Russian meddling, annexation and genocide in the region), so they are kind of helpful to have around when Russia literally attempts to invade you. The fact that Ukraine have a Jewish president should indicate that it's a tad overblown, and the fact that Russia also uses Neo-Nazis as official parts of its own armed forces seems to have mysteriously escaped your attention.


No, your presenting your own propaganda, but because you agree with it, it's ok, thats the truth.
I presented an online encyclopedia that you off-handedly dismiss despite being unable to refute a single claim I have made. You presented a video that was literally endorsed BY THE KREMLIN and several other random YouTube videos of dubious authenticity.

You mean puppet regime.
No, it was carried out by the government of Ukraine after Maidan.

I'd concentrate on your support of Neo Nazi's if I were you,
Ah yes, I support Neo-Nazis. A totally substantiated argument based on actual things I have said.

and obviously your maths isn't too great, I mean 750 bases verses 3, and a government that killed 3000 of it's own people in order to start a war and kill millions more in the ME, take those blinkers off buddy.
You gonna actually support anything you write, or just repeat Russian propaganda?

Got any comments on the fact that you insist Russia and Ukraine are "intrinsically joined since forever" and yet Ukraine voted OVERWHELMINGLY (92%) in favour of independence in 1991? Or are you just going to ignore that like literally all facts?
 

Tony B

Member
You're hilarious.


And yet, your post continues...


Yep.


"I don't believe your propaganda, I just believe what these random videos and films produced by the Kremlin say!"

Meanwhile, in reality, the existence of Neo-Nazis in Ukraine is hardly special. They exist in most countries. The fact that Ukraine have a Jewish president should indicate that it's a tad overblown, and the fact that Russia also uses Neo-Nazis as official parts of its own armed forces seems to have mysteriously escaped your attentions.





I presented an online encyclopedia that you off-handedly dismiss despite being unable to refute a single claim I have made. You presented a video that was literally endorsed BY THE KREMLIN and several other random YouTube videos of dubious authenticity.


No, it was carried out by the government of Ukraine after Maidan.


Ah yes, I support Neo-Nazis. A totally substantiated argument based on actual things I have said.


You gonna actually support anything you write, or just repeat Russian propaganda?

Got any comments on the fact that you insist Russia and Ukraine are "intrinsically joined since forever" and yet Ukraine voted OVERWHELMINGLY in favour of independence in 1991? Or are you just going to ignore that like literally all facts?
I generally don't waste my time with empty vessels. When you can grasp what your Government did to 3000 of it's own citizens then maybe you'll join the real world, in the meantime enjoy your time on the Truman show.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I generally don't waste my time with empty vessels. When you can grasp what your Government did to 3000 of it's own citizens then maybe you'll join the real world, in the meantime enjoy your time on the Truman show.
When met with actual facts, you flee like all propagandists.

Also, which government do you think is "mine" exactly?
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Oh great another Social Media educated right winger who thinks he has seen the light of Russkiy Mir but won't move his butt to live there and get drafted.
 

Tony B

Member
Oh great another Facebook educated right winger who thinks he has seen the light of Russkiy Mir but won't move his butt to live there and get drafted.
I don't use Facebook, I'm not that stupid, nor do I support any political party, nor do I support any side in any of these conflicts, apart from that you nailed it :tearsofjoy:
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
It only seems so.

What people like @Estro Felino really mean with "compromise" in practice just means for Ukraine to bend over backwards with their pants down, while Russia gets whatever it demands..
Nope! We have to be realistic.
Do you even know what Russia is "demanding" ?

As we all know, in the days of the USSR, they were ALL "Russians" .. what's changed, exactly?
It's a lot more complex than making claims about polls of areas from either party.

Do you think that the majority of Ukranians would agree with a war that destroys 100's of thousands
of their men only to be defeated politically, if Trump gets in and drastically cuts support?
OF COURSE NOT !

All this does is create precedents and signals every dictatorial regime around the world that they can blackmail their way to their dreams..
No it doesn't.
One has to take each conflict, and see it in context.
..and not just from the perception of G7 nations, somehow thinking they are superior to everybody else.

That using force and aggression will be rewarded with meeting demands instead of punished.
That is a dangerous attitude .. it's also arrogant.

It would show incredible weakness and that, more so then anything else, is what will upset world balance.
What will upset "world balance", is provoking other nations to align against those who
are arrogant.

I don't particularly like Putin .. I didn't particularly like Saddam Hussein.
Escalation of wars leading to WWIII is ridiculous .. nuclear war is ridiculous.

The only way is through mediation.
That is not to say that war doesn't play a part .. that would be unrealistic.

..so .. rather than causing the death of more and more people by continual escalation, the "most
powerful nation in the world" should be thinking more about dialogue.

Zelensky and Nethanyahu are not prepared to make any compromise .. that is not surprising
.. they are both in serious conflicts .. the only time that they will de-escalate, is if their
support is reduced.

..so just like Israel blames Iran and is behind all the trouble, other nations will say that the trouble
is due to the US.

Might does not necessarily equal right. :expressionless:
 
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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
As we all know, in the days of the USSR, they were ALL "Russians" .. what's changed, exactly?
Third sentence and already wrong lmao


(those were fellow Muslims, not that Muslims care)




Do you think that the majority of Ukranians would agree with a war that destroys 100's of thousands

Well let's hear it from the horses mouth

28.02.2022 - 08:00

A new world is being born before our eyes. Russia's military operation in Ukraine has ushered in a new era - and in three dimensions at once. And, of course, in a fourth, internal Russian dimension. A new period is starting here, both in ideology and in the very model of our socio-economic system - but this is worth talking about separately a little later.
Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe of our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at great cost, yes, through the tragic events of the actual civil war, because now there are still brothers shooting at each other, separated by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies - but Ukraine as the anti-Russia will no longer exist. Russia is restoring its historical wholeness by gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in its totality of Velikorosses, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we were to abandon this, if we were to allow temporary division to take hold for centuries, we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but we would be damned by our descendants - for allowing the Russian land to disintegrate.

Vladimir Putin has assumed - without any exaggeration - a historic responsibility by choosing not to leave the Ukrainian question to future generations. After all, the need to resolve it would always remain a major problem for Russia - for two key reasons. And the issue of national security, i.e. making Ukraine an anti-Russia and an outpost for Western pressure on us, is only the second most important among them.

The first would always be the complex of a divided nation, the complex of national humiliation - when the Russian house first lost part of its foundation (Kiev) and then had to come to terms with the existence of two states no longer one but two peoples. That is, either to abandon its history, agreeing with the crazy versions that "only Ukraine is the real Russia", or to gnash their teeth helplessly, remembering the times when "we have lost Ukraine". Bringing Ukraine back, that is, turning it back to Russia, would be more and more difficult with each decade - the recoding, derussification of Russians and the setting against Russian Little Russians-Ukrainians, would gain momentum. And if full geopolitical and military control of Ukraine by the West were consolidated, its return to Russia would become impossible - it would be at war with the Atlantic bloc.

Now this problem is gone - Ukraine has returned to Russia. This does not mean that its statehood will be liquidated, but it will be restructured, re-established and returned to its natural state as part of the Russian world. Within what boundaries, in what form will the union with Russia be secured (through the CSTO and the Eurasian Union or the Union State of Russia and Belarus)? This will be decided after the end of the history of Ukraine as anti-Russia. In any case - the period of division of the Russian people is coming to an end.

And here begins the second dimension of the coming new era - it concerns Russia's relations with the West. Not even Russia, but the Russian world, that is, the three states, Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, acting geopolitically as one. This relationship has entered a new phase - the West sees Russia returning to its historical borders in Europe. And it resents it loudly, though deep down it must admit to itself that it could not have it any other way.

Did anyone in the old European capitals, in Paris and Berlin, seriously believe that Moscow would give up Kiev? That the Russians would forever be a divided people? And at the same time as Europe is uniting, when German and French elites are trying to wrest control of European integration from the Anglo-Saxons and reassemble a united Europe? Forgetting that the unification of Europe was only made possible by the unification of Germany, which was due to Russian good (albeit not very clever) will. To take a swing at the Russian lands after that is the top of ingratitude, but of geopolitical stupidity. The West as a whole, and even more so Europe separately, had no power to keep Ukraine in its sphere of influence, let alone to take it over. One had to be a geopolitical fool not to understand that.

To be precise, there was only one option: to bet on the further collapse of Russia, i.e. the Russian Federation. But the fact that it did not work should have been clear twenty years ago. And fifteen years ago, after Putin's Munich speech, even the deaf could hear - Russia was coming back.

Now the West is trying to punish Russia for coming back, for failing to justify its plans to profit at its expense, for not allowing the expansion of the Western space to the east. In seeking to punish us, the West thinks that relations with it are of vital importance to us. But that has long been the case - the world has changed, and not just the Europeans, but the Anglo-Saxons who run the West, understand that very well. No amount of Western pressure on Russia will get us anywhere. Both sides will suffer losses from the escalation of confrontation, but Russia is morally and geopolitically ready for it. But for the West itself, an increase in the degree of confrontation carries enormous costs - and the main ones are not economic at all.

Europe, as part of the West, wanted autonomy - the German project of European integration does not make strategic sense if Anglo-Saxon ideological, military and geopolitical control over the Old World is maintained. Nor can it be successful, because the Anglo-Saxons need a controlled Europe. But Europe also needs autonomy for another reason - in case the United States moves to self-isolation (as a result of growing internal conflicts and contradictions) or concentrates on the Pacific region, where the geopolitical centre of gravity is shifting.

But the confrontation with Russia, into which the Anglo-Saxons are dragging Europe, deprives the Europeans of even a chance for autonomy - not to mention the fact that in the same way Europe is trying to impose a break with China. While the Atlanticists are now rejoicing that the "Russian threat" will unite the Western bloc, in Berlin and Paris they cannot but understand that, having lost hope of autonomy, the European project will simply collapse in the medium term. That is why independently thinking Europeans are now completely uninterested in building a new iron curtain on their eastern borders - realising that it will turn into a pen for Europe. Whose century (half a millennium to be exact) of global leadership is in any case over - but various options for its future are still possible.

Because the construction of a new world order - and this is the third dimension of current events - is accelerating, and its contours are becoming clearer through the sprawling blanket of Anglo-Saxon globalisation. A multipolar world has finally become a reality - the operation in Ukraine is incapable of rallying anyone but the West against Russia. Because the rest of the world can see and understand that this is a conflict between Russia and the West, it is a response to the geopolitical expansion of the Atlanticists, it is Russia reclaiming its historical space and its place in the world.

China and India, Latin America and Africa, the Islamic world and Southeast Asia - no one believes that the West rules the world order, let alone sets the rules of the game. Russia has not just challenged the West, it has shown that the era of Western global dominance is fully and finally over. The new world will be built by all civilisations and centres of power, naturally, together with the West (united or not) - but not on its terms and not by its rules.

Source: Наступление России и нового мира


Russian state media automatically published this article by accident. Because they could not fathom that they wouldn't raise the Russian flag on day 3 in Kyiv.


And what has happened since? In the initial invasion Russian troops executed countless mayors and other officials in the occupied regions.
Thousands of Ukrainian children have been abducted to be raised as Russians, destroying their national identity.


The Anti-West propagandists celebrate this because they hate democracy and free thought.


The only way is through mediation.

Why don't you give your home for the Russians and Ukraine stays the same?


..so just like Israel blames Iran and is behind all the trouble, other nations will say that the trouble
is due to the US.

Like bro never mind that the Houthis, Hamas, Hezbollah, Syrian Shia militias and Iraqi Shia militias are trained, armed and financially supplied by the Islamic Republic of Iran.
Like bro that's just accidental.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Russia used to be a member of G7 too.
Err, no .. that would have been the G8. ;)

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

- Revelation 17 -

Uh, oh .. do you see what I see? :expressionless:

..so we have a scenario, where nations will align with an oppressive power (the beast), in order
to eliminate a nation that they hate.
It's a disaster. :(
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I don't use Facebook, I'm not that stupid, nor do I support any political party, nor do I support any side in any of these conflicts, apart from that you nailed it :tearsofjoy:
Indeed.
Leftists cannot cope with the fact people may dislike Mr. Zely the comedian.
That former president with those sexy...tight T-shirts and military green sweatshirts....
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Err, no .. that would have been the G8. ;)

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

- Revelation 17 -

Uh, oh .. do you see what I see? :expressionless:

..so we have a scenario, where nations will align with an oppressive power (the beast), in order
to eliminate a nation that they hate.
It's a disaster. :(
The beast is the banking sewer...
the mark of the beast is its usury
and is present in almost all countries. :)

So...are you saying that the Beast from Revelation is a particular country? ;)
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Nope! We have to be realistic.
Do you even know what Russia is "demanding" ?

It wants to turn Ukraine into a Belarus 2.0

As we all know, in the days of the USSR, they were ALL "Russians" .. what's changed, exactly?

What changed is that the USSR fell and Ukraine became a sovereign country.

No it doesn't.

Off course it does.

One has to take each conflict, and see it in context.
..and not just from the perception of G7 nations, somehow thinking they are superior to everybody else.

You seem to have missed that resisting Russia and defending Ukraine from Russian aggression was a decision from the Ukrainians.
Nobody is forcing them to fight. The donations and support of military equipment and humanitarian aid, is there are the request of Ukraine also. And if it were up to them, they'ld be receiving a lot more. Even including boots on the ground from those nations. At the start of the invasion, they were begging NATO to send in help to enforce a no-fly-zone over the country.

That is a dangerous attitude .. it's also arrogant.

The alternative is a lot more dangerous.
To stop a bully, you stand up to him. Just handing over your lunch money will only make matters even worse.

What will upset "world balance", is provoking other nations to align against those who
are arrogant.

I don't particularly like Putin .. I didn't particularly like Saddam Hussein.
Escalation of wars leading to WWIII is ridiculous .. nuclear war is ridiculous.

The only way is through mediation.
That is not to say that war doesn't play a part .. that would be unrealistic.

..so .. rather than causing the death of more and more people by continual escalation, the "most
powerful nation in the world" should be thinking more about dialogue.

Zelensky and Nethanyahu are not prepared to make any compromise .. that is not surprising
.. they are both in serious conflicts .. the only time that they will de-escalate, is if their
support is reduced.

You seem to have a warped vision of this conflict in Ukraine.
The escalation is entirely on the side of Russia at every turn of this conflict. THEY invaded. THEY are bombing indiscriminately. THEY are engaging in warcrimes. THEY are using nuclear power stations as military compounds. THEY are bringing in non-russian soldiers. THEY are the ones threatening with nukes.

Ukraine is only defending itself.

..so just like Israel blames Iran and is behind all the trouble, other nations will say that the trouble
is due to the US.

Might does not necessarily equal right. :expressionless:
Tell it to Putin.

Bowing down to a bully tells that bully (and other bullies) exactly that: that might DOES make right.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Indeed.
Leftists cannot cope with the fact people may dislike Mr. Zely the comedian.
That former president with those sexy...tight T-shirts and military green sweatshirts....
Your personal issues with Zelensky are completely irrelevant with how Ukraine, a sovereign country, is being bombed to the ground by its aggressive expansionist nostalgic neighbor.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
No...because I apply one single standard on Kosovo and Donbas.
You apply two different standards.

No. We have been over this countless times.
Kosovo was a UN operation with UN security council resolution mandates.

The only way how these conflicts are comparable, is by drawing a parallel between Putin and Milosevic.

I don't think you are in good faith. At all.

Why? Because I think law actually matters?

Because it's like you said that in Wallonie there are only Flemish-speaking people...and we cannot make a referendum about their independence in case France helps them become independent.

You make no sense.
If France would invade Belgium and occupy Wallonie and then holds a referendum there at gunpoint, it would be just as illegal.

If on the other hand a proper referendum was being held, fair and transparent, without military occupation and not at gunpoint, like every other normal election, then that's very different. I would accept the outcome even if I didn't like it. Just like people accepted the Brexit referendum.

Imagine the Brexit referendum after European armies invaded Brittain and then organized it at gunpoint. It would be deemed just as illegal and unacceptable as the ones in Ukraine.

Donbas, same thing as Wallonie: there are Russian-speaking people who want to become independent.
I don't think you debate in good faith, monsieur.
You completely ignore the aspect of military occupation and organizing a sham referendum at gunpoint, and *I* am the one arguing in bad faith?

That's just rich.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I'd concentrate on your support of Neo Nazi's if I were you, and obviously your maths isn't too great, I mean 750 bases verses 3, and a government that killed 3000 of it's own people in order to start a war and kill millions more in the ME, take those blinkers off buddy.
I didn't read everything leading up to this so perhaps I'm wrong.


But is the bolded part really you claiming that the US carried out 9/11 itself?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
No. We have been over this countless times.
Kosovo was a UN operation with UN security council resolution mandates.
The only way how these conflicts are comparable, is by drawing a parallel between Putin and Milosevic.
No...Kiev's tough attitude against the separatists of Donbas was CLEAR.
Not that dissimilar from the tough attitude Milosevic had against the separatists of Kosovo.
Why? Because I think law actually matters?
You cannot be clement with a president and merciless with another, if they committed the SAME CRIME.
For God's sake...the law is equal for ALL.
You make no sense.
If France would invade Belgium and occupy Wallonie and then holds a referendum there at gunpoint, it would be just as illegal.
I mean if Brussels decided to bomb the Wallonie separatists.
Aided by France.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
What changed is that the USSR fell and Ukraine became a sovereign country..
Right .. and the fall of the Berlin wall and the collapse of the Warsaw pact has seen Russia
increasingly isolated, and united with China .. it fears NATO expansion.

You seem to have missed that resisting Russia and defending Ukraine from Russian aggression was a decision from the Ukrainians.
I haven't missed that at all.
At the start of Ukraine-Russia, Israel-Hamas, I was onboard with Western goals.
i.e. the security of Israel and Ukraine

..but now I see the folly of arrogance, and not having dialogue with Russia and Hamas, and
insisting on war without compromise in both arenas.
They are, in effect, connected. "western interests"

You seem to have a warped vision of this conflict in Ukraine.
The escalation is entirely on the side of Russia at every turn of this conflict. THEY invaded. THEY are bombing indiscriminately. THEY are engaging in warcrimes. THEY are using nuclear power stations as military compounds. THEY are bringing in non-russian soldiers. THEY are the ones threatening with nukes.

Ukraine is only defending itself.
Hmm .. how did WWII start?
..and WWIII will obviously be a lot more devastating.

The population of China and India is ~2 billion .. do those nations have diplomatic relations
with Russia? Yes !
Does the opinions of these nations not matter any more?
..or is it that their opinions never mattered?

Bowing down to a bully tells that bully (and other bullies) exactly that: that might DOES make right.
That works both ways .. somebody has to be the "grown-up", and seek a solution other than
escalation of war leading to WWIII.

What does Russia "demand" ?
As far as I know, it would be a Ukraine that does not seek NATO membership. That is
understandable, isn't it?
I mean, Russia is not going to be invited, any more than Turkey is going to be invited in
to the EU. That ship has sailed.
 
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