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Germanic Heathens: How do you interpret Heathenry in belief and practice?

EyeofOdin

Active Member
In belief:

I feel the worldview of Germanic Heathenism is based on the social structure of the tribe. There were the outyards, misyards and inneryards. Outyards was anything outside the community barriers, including resident wildlife, hostile strangers and foreign tribesmen. Midyards' residents were the common folk, like farmers or businessmen in the lower class and warriors in the upperclass. Inneryards had the priestly, kingly and sovereign elders.

Ancestors were thought to be elders in spirit form, so they're associated with the Inneryards.

Gods were considered at least family of divine ancestors, making their realm the cosmic inneryard, Asgard, and the gods being the cosmic kings or shamans.

Giants were opposed to gods as warring tribes. Gods are opposite to Jotnar, therefore the Inneryardish Asgard is opposite to Jotunheim, associating it with the outyards. Jotunheim was also called Utgard, meaning "Out-Yard". Some Giants take on outeryardish form, like Wolves, Snakes and Eagles to Wilflife, isolated wise beings to traveling volvas and wizards and aggressive anthropic retina to hostile outsiders.

The Vanir are allied with the Aesir, and allies were treated as honored guests in a community, so the Vanir are venerated at the same regard as gods.

The Land was seen as alive with spirits or wights. Some were specialized in magic and fertility, being called Alfar or Elves, others magic and netherworldly matters, Dvergar or Dwarves, and then Wights of either the land (Landvaettir) or a house (Husvaettir). I feel the wights can only be appeased and rarely expelled. The Elves, Dwarves and Wights are also not morally predictable as they are individuals, like us.

The world can be viewed in different ways. Generally it's based on a tree, with at least Asgard to the branches, Midgard to the base and Utgard to the outer and lower areas near the world tree. There usually are more realms, assumed to be the ones mentioned and Alfheim to the branches, Dvergarheim and Helheim to the roots, Vanaheim either in the branches or near Midgard, and Muspelheim and Niflheim in varied areas. This is based on The Nine Realms from The Viking Eddas, but nearby in England the pagan Anglo Saxons attested seven realms, not all being named.

In Practice:

The Prechristian Germanic Pagans were an oral tradition, but weren't as concerned with intellectual correctness as the Jewish Based traditions are. The concern is mostly rituals for the individual to build relationships with the ancestors and wights, while the community would honor the ancestors, wights and gods.

The ancestors were typically honored lest the be offended by their descendants' neglect. They were thought to be able to persuade gods to either give or hold back fertility, victory, magic and social order. The wights could either be malicious if annoyed by human activity in their territory/ not appeased for humans overlapping with their habitat and cause the same results as ancestral neglect.

Gods have different skills and abilities. These skills make them useful in certain areas. Thor can cause storms and use his thunder weapon, so he can bring fertility to crops or strength from his hammer wielding ability. Odin is well skilled in magic, so he can use his magic for knowledge or bending luck in war or fate.

Giants are like wild animals. Shamans used to use behavior, totems and symbology of wildlife for shamanic uses. Giants can be very wise but too very destructive. They're unpredictable and can be learned from, if one keeps a good observing distance, just like how the wolf and his space can be admired but his s aggression and power should be given a respectable space.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I can only interpret Heathenry through my modern eyes that look on to an imagined past that's based on snippets of information that may or may not be accurate.

Still these are pretty interesting to think about and apply.
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
There are numerous interpretations.

Seeing the Gods as ancestors got rubbed out eons ago during the Crusade. It's good to see so many know about it this day.

There was no count in destroying anything and all things Pagan in the Crusade era.

There were many Kings that chose Catholicism. Clovis I, saw a crucifix in the sky, Charlemagne in particular. "If they're Pagan kill them."

They annihilated everything. They killed those who were loyal and thought they were descendance, even worse.

Seeing the Gods as ancestors is how I initially conceived them, instinctively,then I learned about the annihilation of the clans.

The clans had been under persecution, Pagan or not, by the English since the conform.

The one that comes to mind, , King Richard I, King Henry the 8th, sat out to annihilate all other royal bloodlines.

Royal Blood Lines came from Pagan Gods in the era, which had had already been under persecution.



There's tons more, I just learned of a few Kings that chose to annihilate their people in the conform.
 
A long, long time ago, I was part of Asatru. I don't know what it's like now, but there were 2 main opposing camps back then (early 2000s)...folkish(eg AFA) on one hand, and universalists(eg THE TROTH) on the other. I'm of Filipino background, with very strong southern Chinese features. I remember my times there very well....the good, and the bad. I worshipped Thor, and divined with the runes(elder futhark only) daily. By the end of it all, I couldn't take to either opposing sides. By the end of it all, I followed the path on my own, but I eventually left such path for a variety of reasons.

The politics within Asatru was not encouragement for staying there, and my real main participation was only online. There were many who were against my presence within the faith, although I was on my own...and there were many who supported me. People I dealt with on the main (especially face-to-face), were at best, psychologically-imbalanced. Getting involved with this or that religion and suffering from mental illness are very bad mixes...especially those who practise 'seidhr'. Reconstruct religions, mental imbalance, use of hallucinogens, misguided pride through exclusivity based on so-called Germanic bloodlines...very bad mixes indeed!...as I found out for myself. Organized faiths or paths as I recently discovered once again, did not suit me in any way

I loved the sight of the 'elder futhark runes' to this day and I still have admiration for the great thunder-god...despite the fact that I've turned back to both the bible and the koran once more. Christianity was what I grew up with. It was forced on me by my elders, but there's nothing I can do about the past. In my adulthood, I've voluntarily returned to something which was originally forced on me, and I'm at peace. I've also accepted Islam as a valid path a few years ago

No preChristian Germanic lore in 'hard copy' had ever been found (from archaeological sites) that dated from the preChristian times....certainly not from during the heady times of the Viking raids around Europe. What lore that did come up were from years after the conversion (to Christianity) of the various Germanic tribes/groups...and one of them was the Edda. The Eddas and Sagas when looked at closely show much influence from Christendom. I can't say I've read all...in fact, only a little. The rituals performed TODAY by many Asatru kindreds bear much Christian influence from the backgrounds of the various participants. The seasonal rituals are performed with northern European seasons in mind irrespective of whichever group or family resided in whichever part of the world. Such seasonal rituals are also performed without consideration for the world's recent climate changes. For example, flowers bloom in winter and animals are born out of season and yet, winter celebrations are taking place...instead of celebrating the actual blessing happening there and then. I thought it was crazy

With some Asatru groups, titles and dress-ups had become the norm...and were the things mainly discussed instead of what yearned in a man's/woman's heart and what will still that soul. The ways of Asatru, like Islam, are quite colorful and exciting...but worship or a way of life can't be only about indulging the senses...not for me anyway. But, this is not an outright condemnation of each and every Asatru practise out there...for there are too many individual practices and beliefs out there, just as there are within Judaism, Christendom, and the Islamic world
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
A long, long time ago, I was part of Asatru. I don't know what it's like now, but there were 2 main opposing camps back then (early 2000s)...folkish(eg AFA) on one hand, and universalists(eg THE TROTH) on the other. I'm of Filipino background, with very strong southern Chinese features. I remember my times there very well....the good, and the bad. I worshipped Thor, and divined with the runes(elder futhark only) daily. By the end of it all, I couldn't take to either opposing sides. By the end of it all, I followed the path on my own, but I eventually left such path for a variety of reasons.

The politics within Asatru was not encouragement for staying there, and my real main participation was only online. There were many who were against my presence within the faith, although I was on my own...and there were many who supported me. People I dealt with on the main (especially face-to-face), were at best, psychologically-imbalanced. Getting involved with this or that religion and suffering from mental illness are very bad mixes...especially those who practise 'seidhr'. Reconstruct religions, mental imbalance, use of hallucinogens, misguided pride through exclusivity based on so-called Germanic bloodlines...very bad mixes indeed!...as I found out for myself. Organized faiths or paths as I recently discovered once again, did not suit me in any way

I loved the sight of the 'elder futhark runes' to this day and I still have admiration for the great thunder-god...despite the fact that I've turned back to both the bible and the koran once more. Christianity was what I grew up with. It was forced on me by my elders, but there's nothing I can do about the past. In my adulthood, I've voluntarily returned to something which was originally forced on me, and I'm at peace. I've also accepted Islam as a valid path a few years ago

No preChristian Germanic lore in 'hard copy' had ever been found (from archaeological sites) that dated from the preChristian times....certainly not from during the heady times of the Viking raids around Europe. What lore that did come up were from years after the conversion (to Christianity) of the various Germanic tribes/groups...and one of them was the Edda. The Eddas and Sagas when looked at closely show much influence from Christendom. I can't say I've read all...in fact, only a little. The rituals performed TODAY by many Asatru kindreds bear much Christian influence from the backgrounds of the various participants. The seasonal rituals are performed with northern European seasons in mind irrespective of whichever group or family resided in whichever part of the world. Such seasonal rituals are also performed without consideration for the world's recent climate changes. For example, flowers bloom in winter and animals are born out of season and yet, winter celebrations are taking place...instead of celebrating the actual blessing happening there and then. I thought it was crazy

With some Asatru groups, titles and dress-ups had become the norm...and were the things mainly discussed instead of what yearned in a man's/woman's heart and what will still that soul. The ways of Asatru, like Islam, are quite colorful and exciting...but worship or a way of life can't be only about indulging the senses...not for me anyway. But, this is not an outright condemnation of each and every Asatru practise out there...for there are too many individual practices and beliefs out there, just as there are within Judaism, Christendom, and the Islamic world

This is what it can be like for an outsider, like most of us.

Some people of the Norse faith in Scandinavian territories also find 'Asatru' or whatever denomination of Norse/ Germanic Paganism with a sense of Nationalism and culture.

They can be extremely rude about it, or polite and try to explain it to you.

I as an American have been insulted, as well as being born a Christian.


I believe in what the Elders desire in the resurgence of Norse Paganism, it can be quite strict and people will see it as racist or prejudice towards 'outsiders'.

I don't wear a Mjolnir pendant as I would because I know it wouldn't go well with some real back woods real Norsemen that would cleave it from my neck.

I don't disagree with them. But I very well would be accepted.
 

mactire

New Member
In belief:

I feel the worldview of Germanic Heathenism is based on the social structure of the tribe. There were the outyards, misyards and inneryards. Outyards was anything outside the community barriers, including resident wildlife, hostile strangers and foreign tribesmen. Midyards' residents were the common folk, like farmers or businessmen in the lower class and warriors in the upperclass. Inneryards had the priestly, kingly and sovereign elders.

Ancestors were thought to be elders in spirit form, so they're associated with the Inneryards.

Gods were considered at least family of divine ancestors, making their realm the cosmic inneryard, Asgard, and the gods being the cosmic kings or shamans.

Giants were opposed to gods as warring tribes. Gods are opposite to Jotnar, therefore the Inneryardish Asgard is opposite to Jotunheim, associating it with the outyards. Jotunheim was also called Utgard, meaning "Out-Yard". Some Giants take on outeryardish form, like Wolves, Snakes and Eagles to Wilflife, isolated wise beings to traveling volvas and wizards and aggressive anthropic retina to hostile outsiders.

The Vanir are allied with the Aesir, and allies were treated as honored guests in a community, so the Vanir are venerated at the same regard as gods.

The Land was seen as alive with spirits or wights. Some were specialized in magic and fertility, being called Alfar or Elves, others magic and netherworldly matters, Dvergar or Dwarves, and then Wights of either the land (Landvaettir) or a house (Husvaettir). I feel the wights can only be appeased and rarely expelled. The Elves, Dwarves and Wights are also not morally predictable as they are individuals, like us.

The world can be viewed in different ways. Generally it's based on a tree, with at least Asgard to the branches, Midgard to the base and Utgard to the outer and lower areas near the world tree. There usually are more realms, assumed to be the ones mentioned and Alfheim to the branches, Dvergarheim and Helheim to the roots, Vanaheim either in the branches or near Midgard, and Muspelheim and Niflheim in varied areas. This is based on The Nine Realms from The Viking Eddas, but nearby in England the pagan Anglo Saxons attested seven realms, not all being named.

In Practice:

The Prechristian Germanic Pagans were an oral tradition, but weren't as concerned with intellectual correctness as the Jewish Based traditions are. The concern is mostly rituals for the individual to build relationships with the ancestors and wights, while the community would honor the ancestors, wights and gods.

The ancestors were typically honored lest the be offended by their descendants' neglect. They were thought to be able to persuade gods to either give or hold back fertility, victory, magic and social order. The wights could either be malicious if annoyed by human activity in their territory/ not appeased for humans overlapping with their habitat and cause the same results as ancestral neglect.

Gods have different skills and abilities. These skills make them useful in certain areas. Thor can cause storms and use his thunder weapon, so he can bring fertility to crops or strength from his hammer wielding ability. Odin is well skilled in magic, so he can use his magic for knowledge or bending luck in war or fate.

Giants are like wild animals. Shamans used to use behavior, totems and symbology of wildlife for shamanic uses. Giants can be very wise but too very destructive. They're unpredictable and can be learned from, if one keeps a good observing distance, just like how the wolf and his space can be admired but his s aggression and power should be given a respectable space.

I found your insight very interesting. I am looking for a better understanding of Celtic belief and practice. I do agree with you to the importance of ancestors. That was one of the issues that the Anglo-Saxons especially in the north were reluctant to change to Christianity because the conversion would dishonor their ancestors. Our problem which I am sure has been pointed out many times before is the lack sources to understand what they really did and what they really practiced. The stories we have were written after the conversion to Christianity and had already been influenced first by pagan Rome then by Christian Rome. How to approach pre-Christian religions of the Norse people was discussed in conference at Lund, Sweden in 2004 which lead to the collaborative effort in the book 'Old Norse Religion in Long-term Perspectives' I am not as familiar with Norse mythology as with Celtic but from my understanding the participants of this collaboration came up with interesting views on the way to approach religions from the past and how the religion changed in time with exposure to influences from the Sami to Rome. They found changes in votive practices over time.

One of the more significant changes may have been the change from Tribal gods to a more organized pantheon of gods by the time the stories were written down. This is one of the areas I am trying to better understand in Celtic religion. The Irish tales written by monks have the gods and goddesses more connected together than they may have actually been. There was more likely go have been tribal or clan gods/goddesses sacred to a particular area than an organized pantheon of gods and goddesses as we see in Greek and Roman pagan religious beliefs.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I found your insight very interesting. I am looking for a better understanding of Celtic belief and practice. I do agree with you to the importance of ancestors. That was one of the issues that the Anglo-Saxons especially in the north were reluctant to change to Christianity because the conversion would dishonor their ancestors. Our problem which I am sure has been pointed out many times before is the lack sources to understand what they really did and what they really practiced. The stories we have were written after the conversion to Christianity and had already been influenced first by pagan Rome then by Christian Rome. How to approach pre-Christian religions of the Norse people was discussed in conference at Lund, Sweden in 2004 which lead to the collaborative effort in the book 'Old Norse Religion in Long-term Perspectives' I am not as familiar with Norse mythology as with Celtic but from my understanding the participants of this collaboration came up with interesting views on the way to approach religions from the past and how the religion changed in time with exposure to influences from the Sami to Rome. They found changes in votive practices over time.

One of the more significant changes may have been the change from Tribal gods to a more organized pantheon of gods by the time the stories were written down. This is one of the areas I am trying to better understand in Celtic religion. The Irish tales written by monks have the gods and goddesses more connected together than they may have actually been. There was more likely go have been tribal or clan gods/goddesses sacred to a particular area than an organized pantheon of gods and goddesses as we see in Greek and Roman pagan religious beliefs.

Very true. There might have been a small number of Gods that may have been loosely shared across the Tribes due to the shared Into-European heritage, but it's likely that their roles and even names might have had significant variation.

It most certainly would have been pretty strictly regional before the Indo-European culture left its mark.

I'll have to track down a copy of that book.
 

EyeofOdin

Active Member
There are numerous interpretations.

Seeing the Gods as ancestors got rubbed out eons ago during the Crusade. It's good to see so many know about it this day.

There was no count in destroying anything and all things Pagan in the Crusade era.

There were many Kings that chose Catholicism. Clovis I, saw a crucifix in the sky, Charlemagne in particular. "If they're Pagan kill them."

They annihilated everything. They killed those who were loyal and thought they were descendance, even worse.

Seeing the Gods as ancestors is how I initially conceived them, instinctively,then I learned about the annihilation of the clans.

The clans had been under persecution, Pagan or not, by the English since the conform.

The one that comes to mind, , King Richard I, King Henry the 8th, sat out to annihilate all other royal bloodlines.

Royal Blood Lines came from Pagan Gods in the era, which had had already been under persecution.



There's tons more, I just learned of a few Kings that chose to annihilate their people in the conform.

To be clear, I have no idea if any divinity is my genetic ancestor. I'd guess secularly that none are. Seeing the gods as ancestors comes from lore from all over Europe of deities having children with women and the god's genes would be dispersed eventually through the gene pool. Does this have any historical credit? No. Does this give unification to a religio-cultural pagan movement? Yes, because it's not historically factual but psychologically true on an abstract spiritual and social level.

The gods also in myth guided life to evolve into how we are today, in heathenry, this is represented by Odin, Vili and Ve manipulating Ymir's body and through their godly magic willed things like logs, stones or beings birthed by Ymir to change into eventually how things are today.

They're nice stories, but don't get me wrong. Yes they are only culturally significant.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
To be clear, I have no idea if any divinity is my genetic ancestor. I'd guess secularly that none are. Seeing the gods as ancestors comes from lore from all over Europe of deities having children with women and the god's genes would be dispersed eventually through the gene pool. Does this have any historical credit? No. Does this give unification to a religio-cultural pagan movement? Yes, because it's not historically factual but psychologically true on an abstract spiritual and social level.

The gods also in myth guided life to evolve into how we are today, in heathenry, this is represented by Odin, Vili and Ve manipulating Ymir's body and through their godly magic willed things like logs, stones or beings birthed by Ymir to change into eventually how things are today.

They're nice stories, but don't get me wrong. Yes they are only culturally significant.

If cultural significance can be reduced to being qualified as "only". ^_^
 

vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
People I dealt with on the main (especially face-to-face), were at best, psychologically-imbalanced. Getting involved with this or that religion and suffering from mental illness are very bad mixes...especially those who practise 'seidhr'.

I have OCD and I've been getting very into polytheism. (Do you think this is necessarily a bad idea? I don't do super intense rituals and the virtue ethics sort of approach helps me in my day-to-day life.) I wouldn't mess around with seiðr personally though. It sounds kinda terrifying, though I respect it a lot.
 
When I was Asatru a long, long time ago, this was always a point of contention. Everybody I knew was so much into....
- this or that ritual/ceremony or seasonal celebration
- the ancient Germanic tounges
- magic (especially seidhr) as such
...and no one discussed once at length on how their beliefs transferred over into daily life. My interpretation/understanding of the runes and the Havamal was attacked left, right, and centre by certain individuals...especially from a certain group who especially saw themselves as 'scholars' of sorts of the so-called 'lore'..

And there were other things...such as practising and living your beliefs on your own. The fact that many did this caused a lot of politics. I think that irrespective of whichever path one sees him/herself as belonging in, you gotta be at peace with yourself. This is more important at all times than even the cohesion or unity of your kindred, tribe, and/or so forth. It's unfortunate, but Asatru as a whole had been making the same mistake(s) that have been made in religions which various individuals belonged to prior to joining the so-called 'northern path'. There have been so-called creatures of 'priesthood' (from memory, I think they called themselves 'godhi'...or something like that) who had basically enshrined certain 'laws' or facts(*laughter*) to the detriment of those who thought differently according to their consciences...and I was basically one of those driven out....

So...how to interpret the preChristian Germanic Heathen path in belief and practise? According to your conscience. And please, don't trouble yourself or go out of your way trying to belong to this, or that group: that will be you first stage of downfall while dedicating yourself to your Gods, and their symbols(eg. the runes)
 
I have OCD and I've been getting very into polytheism. (Do you think this is necessarily a bad idea? I don't do super intense rituals and the virtue ethics sort of approach helps me in my day-to-day life.) I wouldn't mess around with seiðr personally though. It sounds kinda terrifying, though I respect it a lot.
I have OCD big time. I'm no longer involved in Asatru, and I converted to Islam over 2 years ago. Many Muslims will cry foul for my not objecting to your chosen path, but I don't think you're doing anything bad or terrible there...unless you're breaking your country's secular laws. Super intense rituals and seidr...ugh!..yuk!...please don't do it, but that's only my opinion and it's really up to you. The virtue ethics approach to day-to-day life seem good though

Please check the havamal link below...it's a great interpretation, and my favourite...

https://www.ragweedforge.com/havamal.html


The Hávamál

Young and alone on a long road,
Once I lost my way:
Rich I felt when I found another;
Man rejoices in man,

A kind word need not cost much,
The price of praise can be cheap:
With half a loaf and an empty cup
I found myself a friend,

Two wooden stakes stood on the plain,
On them I hung my clothes:
Draped in linen, they looked well born,
But, naked, I was a nobody

Too early to many homes I came,
Too late, it seemed, to some:
The ale was finished or else un-brewed,
The unpopular cannot please,

Some would invite me to visit their homes,
But none thought I needed a meal,
As though I had eaten a whole joint,
Just before with a friend who had two

The man who stands at a strange threshold,
Should be cautious before he cross it,
Glance this way and that:
Who knows beforehand what foes may sit
Awaiting him in the hall?

Greetings to the host,
The guest has arrived,
In which seat shall he sit?
Rash is he who at unknown doors
Relies on his good luck,

Fire is needed by the newcomer
Whose knees are frozen numb;
Meat and clean linen a man needs
Who has fared across the fells,

Water, too, that he may wash before eating,
Handcloth's and a hearty welcome,
Courteous words, then courteous silence
That he may tell his tale,

Who travels widely needs his wits about him,
The stupid should stay at home:
The ignorant man is often laughed at
When he sits at meat with the sage,

Of his knowledge a man should never boast,
Rather be sparing of speech
When to his house a wiser comes:
Seldom do those who are silent Make mistakes;
mother wit Is ever a faithful friend,

A guest should be courteous
When he comes to the table
And sit in wary silence,
His ears attentive,
his eyes alert:
So he protects himself,

Fortunate is he who is favoured in his lifetime
With praise and words of wisdom:
Evil counsel is often given
By those of evil heart,

Blessed is he who in his own lifetime
Is awarded praise and wit,
For ill counsel is often given
By mortal men to each other,

Better gear than good sense
A traveller cannot carry,
Better than riches for a wretched man,
Far from his own home,

Better gear than good sense
A traveller cannot carry,
A more tedious burden than too much drink
A traveller cannot carry,

Less good than belief would have it
Is mead for the sons of men:
A man knows less the more he drinks,
Becomes a befuddled fool,

I-forget is the name men give the heron
Who hovers over the fast:
Fettered I was in his feathers that night,
When a guest in Gunnlod's court

Drunk I got, dead drunk,
When Fjalar the wise was with me:
Best is the banquet one looks back on after,
And remembers all that happened,

Silence becomes the Son of a prince,
To be silent but brave in battle:
It befits a man to be merry and glad
Until the day of his death,

The coward believes he will live forever
If he holds back in the battle,
But in old age he shall have no peace
Though spears have spared his limbs

When he meets friends, the fool gapes,
Is shy and sheepish at first,
Then he sips his mead and immediately
All know what an oaf he is,
He who has seen and suffered much,
And knows the ways of the world,
Who has travelled', can tell what spirit
Governs the men he meets,
Drink your mead, but in moderation,
Talk sense or be silent:
No man is called discourteous who goes
To bed at an early hour

A gluttonous man who guzzles away
Brings sorrow on himself:
At the table of the wise he is taunted often,
Mocked for his bloated belly,

The herd knows its homing time,
And leaves the grazing ground:
But the glutton never knows how much
His belly is able to hold,

An ill tempered, unhappy man
Ridicules all he hears,
Makes fun of others, refusing always
To see the faults in himself

Foolish is he who frets at night,
And lies awake to worry'
A weary man when morning comes,
He finds all as bad as before,

The fool thinks that those who laugh
At him are all his friends,
Unaware when he sits with wiser men
How ill they speak of him.

The fool thinks that those who laugh
At him are all his friends:
When he comes to the Thing and calls for support,
Few spokesmen he finds

The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
While he sits by his hearth at home.
Quickly finds when questioned by others .
That he knows nothing at all.

The ignorant booby had best be silent
When he moves among other men,
No one will know what a nit-wit he is
Until he begins to talk;
No one knows less what a nit-wit he is
Than the man who talks too much.

To ask well, to answer rightly,
Are the marks of a wise man:
Men must speak of men's deeds,
What happens may not be hidden.

Wise is he not who is never silent,
Mouthing meaningless words:
A glib tongue that goes on chattering
Sings to its own harm.

A man among friends should not mock another:
Many believe the man
Who is not questioned to know much
And so he escapes their scorn.
An early meal a man should take
Before he visits friends,
Lest, when he gets there,
he go hungry,
Afraid to ask for food.

The fastest friends may fall out
When they sit at the banquet-board:
It is, and shall be, a shameful thing
When guest quarrels with guest,

The wise guest has his way of dealing
With those who taunt him at table:
He smiles through the meal,
not seeming to hear
The twaddle talked by his foes.

The tactful guest will take his leave Early,
not linger long:
He starts to stink who outstays his welcome
In a hall that is not his own.

A small hut of one' s own is better,
A man is his master at home:
A couple of goats and a corded roof
Still are better than begging.

A small hut of one's own is better,
A man is his master at home:
His heart bleeds in the beggar who must
Ask at each meal for meat.

A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need a spear,
Or what menace meet on the road.

No man is so generous he will jib at accepting
A gift in return for a gift,
No man so rich that it really gives him
Pain to be repaid.

Once he has won wealth enough,
A man should not crave for more:
What he saves for friends, foes may take;
Hopes are often liars.

With presents friends should please each other,
With a shield or a costly coat:
Mutual giving makes for friendship,
So long as life goes well,
A man should be loyal through life to friends,
To them and to friends of theirs,
But never shall a man make offer
Of friendship to his foes.

A man should be loyal through life to friends,
And return gift for gift,
Laugh when they laugh,
but with lies repay
A false foe who lies.

If you find a friend you fully trust
And wish for his good-will,
exchange thoughts,
exchange gifts,
Go often to his house.

If you deal with another you don't trust
But wish for his good-will,
Be fair in speech but false in thought
And give him lie for lie.

Even with one you ill-trust
And doubt what he means to do,
False words with fair smiles
May get you the gift you desire.

To a false friend the footpath winds
Though his house be on the highway.
To a sure friend there is a short cut,
Though he live a long way off.

Hotter than fire among false hearts burns
Friendship for five days,
But suddenly slackens when the sixth dawns:
Feeble their friendship then.

The generous and bold have the best lives,
Are seldom beset by cares, ,
But the base man sees bogies everywhere
And the miser pines for presents.

The young fir that falls and rots
Having neither needles nor bark,
So is the fate of the friendless man:
Why should he live long?

Little a sand-grain, little a dew drop,
Little the minds of men:
A11 men are not equal in wisdom,
The half-wise are everywhere

It is best for man to be middle-wise,
Not over cunning and clever:
The fairest life is led by those
Who are deft at all they do.
It is best for man to be middle-wise,
Not over cunning and clever:
No man is able to know his future,
So let him sleep in peace.

It is best for man to be middle-wise,
Not over cunning and clever:
The learned man whose lore is deep
Is seldom happy at heart.

Brand kindles brand till they burn out,
Flame is quickened by flame:
One man from another is known by his speech
The simpleton by his silence.
Early shall he rise who has designs
On anothers land or life:
His prey escapes the prone wolf,
The sleeper is seldom victorious.

Early shall he rise who rules few servants,
And set to work at once:
Much is lost by the late sleeper,
Wealth is won by the swift,

A man should know how many logs
And strips of bark from the birch
To stock in autumn, that he may have enough
Wood for his winter fires.

Washed and fed,
one may fare to the Thing:
Though one's clothes be the worse for Wear,
None need be ashamed of his shoes or hose,
Nor of the horse he owns,
Although no thoroughbred.

As the eagle who comes to the ocean shore,
Sniffs and hangs her head,
Dumfounded is he who finds at the Thing
No supporters to plead his case.

It is safe to tell a secret to one,
Risky to tell it to two,
To tell it to three is thoughtless folly,
Everyone else will know.

Often words uttered to another
Have reaped an ill harvest:
Two beat one, the tongue is head's bane,
Pockets of fur hide fists.

Moderate at council should a man be,
Not brutal and over bearing:
Among the bold the bully will find
Others as bold as he.

These things are thought the best:
Fire, the sight of the sun,
Good health with the gift to keep it,
And a life that avoids vice.

Not all sick men are utterly wretched:
Some are blessed with sons,
Some with friends,
some with riches,
Some with worthy works.

The halt can manage a horse,
the handless a flock,
The deaf be a doughty fighter,
To be blind is better than to burn on a pyre:
There is nothing the dead can do.

It is always better to be alive,
The living can keep a cow.
Fire, I saw, warming a wealthy man,
With a cold corpse at his door.

A son is a blessing, though born late
To a father no longer alive:
Stones would seldom stand by the highway
If sons did not set them there.

He welcomes the night who has enough provisions
Short are the sails of a ship,
Dangerous the dark in autumn,
The wind may veer within five days,
And many times in a month.

The half wit does not know that gold
Makes apes of many men:
One is rich, one is poor
There is no blame in that.

Cattle die, kindred die,
Every man is mortal:
But the good name never dies
Of one who has done well

Cattle die, kindred die,
Every man is mortal:
But I know one thing that never dies,
The glory of the great dead

Fields and flocks had Fitjung's sons,
Who now carry begging bowls:
Wealth may vanish in the wink of an eye,
Gold is the falsest of friends.

In the fool who acquires cattle and lands,
Or wins a woman's love,
His wisdom wanes with his waxing pride,
He sinks from sense to conceit.

Now is answered what you ask of the runes,
Graven by the gods,
Made by the All Father,
Sent by the powerful sage:
lt. is best for man to remain silent.

For these things give thanks at nightfall:
The day gone, a guttered torch,
A sword tested, the troth of a maid,
Ice crossed, ale drunk.

Hew wood in wind-time,
in fine weather sail,
Tell in the night-time tales to house-girls,
For too many eyes are open by day:
From a ship expect speed, from a shield, cover,
Keenness from a sword,
but a kiss from a girl.

Drink ale by the hearth, over ice glide,
Buy a stained sword, buy a starving mare
To fatten at home: and fatten the watch-dog.

Trust not an acre early sown,
Nor praise a son too soon:
Weather rules the acre, wit the son,
Both are exposed to peril,

A snapping bow, a burning flame,
A grinning wolf, a grunting boar,
A raucous crow, a rootless tree,
A breaking wave, a boiling kettle,
A flying arrow, an ebbing tide,
A coiled adder, the ice of a night,
A bride's bed talk, a broad sword,
A bear's play, a prince' s children,
A witch' s welcome, the wit of a slave,
A sick calf, a corpse still fresh,
A brother's killer encountered upon
The highway a house half-burned,
A racing stallion who has wrenched a leg,
Are never safe: let no man trust them.

No man should trust a maiden's words,
Nor what a woman speaks:
Spun on a wheel were women's hearts,
In their breasts was implanted caprice,

To love a woman whose ways are false
Is like sledding over slippery ice
With unshod horses out of control,
Badly trained two-year-olds,
Or drifting rudderless on a rough sea,
Or catching a reindeer with a crippled hand
On a thawing hillside: think not to do it.

Naked I may speak now for I know both:
Men are treacherous too
Fairest we speak when falsest we think:
many a maid is deceived.

Gallantly shall he speak and gifts bring
Who wishes for woman's love:
praise the features of the fair girl,
Who courts well will conquer.

Never reproach another for his love:
It happens often enough
That beauty ensnares with desire the wise
While the foolish remain unmoved.

Never reproach the plight of another,
For it happens to many men:
Strong desire may stupefy heroes,
Dull the wits of the wise

The mind alone knows what is near the heart,
Each is his own judge:
The worst sickness for a wise man
Is to crave what he cannot enjoy.

So I learned when I sat in the reeds,
Hoping to have my desire:
Lovely was the flesh of that fair girl,
But nothing I hoped for happened.

I saw on a bed Billing's daughter,
Sun white, asleep:
No greater delight I longed for then
Than to lie in her lovely arms.

"Come" Odhinn, after nightfall
If you wish for a meeting with me:
All would be lost if anyone saw us
And learned that we were lovers."

Afire with longing" I left her then,
Deceived by her soft words:
I thought my wooing had won the maid,
That I would have my way.

After nightfall I hurried back,
But the warriors were all awake,
Lights were burning, blazing torches:
So false proved the path

Towards daybreak back I came
The guards were sound asleep:
I found then that the fair woman
Had tied a ***** to her bed.

Many a girl when one gets to know her
Proves to be fickle and false:
That treacherous maiden taught me a lesson,
The crafty woman covered me with shame"
That was all I got from her.

Let a man with his guests be glad and merry,
Modest a man should be"
But talk well if he intends to be wise
And expects praise from men:
Fimbul fambi is the fool called "
Unable to open his mouth.
Fruitless my errand, had I been silent
When I came to Suttung's courts:
With spirited words I spoke to my profit
In the hall of the aged giant.

Rati had gnawed a narrow passage,
Chewed a channel through stone,
A path around the roads of giants:
I was like to lose my head

Gunnlod sat me in the golden seat,
Poured me precious mead:
Ill reward she had from me for that,
For her proud and passionate heart,
Her brooding foreboding spirit.

What I won from her I have well used:
I have waxed in wisdom since I came back,
bringing to Asgard Odrerir,
the sacred draught.

Hardly would I have come home alive
From the garth of the grim troll,
Had Gunnlod not helped me, the good woman,
Who wrapped her arms around me.

The following day the Frost Giants came,
Walked into Har's hall To ask for Har's advice:
Had Bolverk they asked, come back to his friends,
Or had he been slain by Suttung?

Odhinn, they said, swore an oath on his ring:
Who from now on will trust him?
By fraud at the feast he befuddled Suttung
And brought grief to Gunnlod.

It is time to sing in the seat of the wise,
Of what at Urd's Well I saw in silence,
saw and thought on.
Long I listened to men
Runes heard spoken, (counsels revealed.)
At Har's hall, In Har's hall:
There I heard this.

Loddfafnir, listen to my counsel:
You will fare well if you follow it,
It will help you much if you heed it.

Never rise at night unless you need to spy
Or to ease yourself in the outhouse.

Shun a woman, wise in magic,
Her bed and her embraces:
If she cast a spell, you will care no longer
To meet and speak with men,
Desire no food, desire no pleasure,
In sorrow fall asleep.

Never seduce anothers wife,
Never make her your mistress.

If you must journey to mountains and firths,
Take food and fodder with you.

Never open your heart to an evil man
When fortune does not favour you:
From an evil man, if you make him your friend,
You will get evil for good.

I saw a warrior wounded fatally
By the words of an evil woman
Her cunning tongue caused his death,
Though what she alleged was a lie.

If you know a friend you can fully trust,
Go often to his house
Grass and brambles grow quickly
Upon the untrodden track.

With a good man it is good to talk,
Make him your fast friend:
But waste no words on a witless oaf,
Nor sit with a senseless ape.

Cherish those near you, never be
The first to break with a friend:
Care eats him who can no longer
Open his heart to another.

An evil man, if you make him your friend,
Will give you evil for good:
A good man, if you make him your friend"
Will praise you in every place,

Affection is mutual when men can open
All their heart to each other:
He whose words are always fair
Is untrue and not to be trusted.

Bandy no speech with a bad man:
Often the better is beaten
In a word fight by the worse.

Be not a cobbler nor a carver of shafts,
Except it be for yourself:
If a shoe fit ill or a shaft be crooked"
The maker gets curses and kicks.

If aware that another is wicked, say so:
Make no truce or treaty with foes.

Never share in the shamefully gotten,
But allow yourself what is lawful.

Never lift your eyes and look up in battle,
Lest the heroes enchant you,
who can change warriors
Suddenly into hogs,
With a good woman, if you wish to enjoy
Her words and her good will,
Pledge her fairly and be faithful to it:
Enjoy the good you are given,

Be not over wary, but wary enough,
First, of the foaming ale,
Second, of a woman wed to another,
Third, of the tricks of thieves.

Mock not the traveller met On the road,
Nor maliciously laugh at the guest:
Scoff not at guests nor to the gate chase them,
But relieve the lonely and wretched,

The sitters in the hall seldom know
The kin of the new-comer:
The best man is marred by faults,
The worst is not without worth.

Never laugh at the old when they offer counsel,
Often their words are wise:
From shrivelled skin, from scraggy things
That hand among the hides
And move amid the guts,
Clear words often come.

Heavy the beam above the door;
Hang a horse-shoe On it
Against ill-luck, lest it should suddenly
Crash and crush your guests.

Medicines exist against many evils:
Earth against drunkenness, heather against worms
Oak against costiveness, corn against sorcery,
Spurred rye against rupture, runes against bales
The moon against feuds, fire against sickness,
Earth makes harmless the floods.

Wounded I hung on a wind-swept gallows
For nine long nights,
Pierced by a spear, pledged to Odhinn,
Offered, myself to myself
The wisest know not from whence spring
The roots of that ancient rood

They gave me no bread,
They gave me no mead,
I looked down;
with a loud cry
I took up runes;
from that tree I fell.

Nine lays of power
I learned from the famous Bolthor, Bestla' s father:
He poured me a draught of precious mead,
Mixed with magic Odrerir.

Waxed and throve well;
Word from word gave words to me,
Deed from deed gave deeds to me,

Runes you will find, and readable staves,
Very strong staves,
Very stout staves,
Staves that Bolthor stained,
Made by mighty powers,
Graven by the prophetic god,

For the gods by Odhinn, for the elves by Dain,
By Dvalin, too, for the dwarves,
By Asvid for the hateful giants,
And some I carved myself:
Thund, before man was made, scratched them,
Who rose first, fell thereafter

Know how to cut them, know how to read them,
Know how to stain them, know how to prove them,
Know how to evoke them, know how to score them,
Know how to send them" know how to send them,

Better not to ask than to over-pledge
As a gift that demands a gift"
Better not to send than to slay too many,

The first charm I know is unknown to rulers
Or any of human kind;
Help it is named,
for help it can give In hours of sorrow and anguish.

I know a second that the sons of men
Must learn who wish to be leeches.

I know a third: in the thick of battle,
If my need be great enough,
It will blunt the edges of enemy swords,
Their weapons will make no wounds.

I know a fourth:
it will free me quickly
If foes should bind me fast
With strong chains, a chant that makes Fetters spring from the feet,
Bonds burst from the hands.

I know a fifth: no flying arrow,
Aimed to bring harm to men,
Flies too fast for my fingers to catch it
And hold it in mid-air.

I know a sixth:
it will save me if a man
Cut runes on a sapling' s Roots
With intent to harm; it turns the spell;
The hater is harmed, not me.

If I see the hall
Ablaze around my bench mates,
Though hot the flames, they shall feel nothing,
If I choose to chant the spell.

I know an eighth:
that all are glad of,
Most useful to men:
If hate fester in the heart of a warrior,
It will soon calm and cure him.

I know a ninth:
when need I have
To shelter my ship on the flood,
The wind it calms, the waves it smoothes
And puts the sea to sleep,

I know a tenth:
if troublesome ghosts
Ride the rafters aloft,
I can work it so they wander astray,
Unable to find their forms,
Unable to find their homes.

I know an eleventh:
when I lead to battle Old comrades in-arms,
I have only to chant it behind my shield,
And unwounded they go to war,
Unwounded they come from war,
U unscathed wherever they are.

I know a twelfth:
If a tree bear
A man hanged in a halter,
I can carve and stain strong runes
That will cause the corpse to speak,
Reply to whatever I ask.

I know a thirteenth
if I throw a cup Of water over a warrior,
He shall not fall in the fiercest battle,
Nor sink beneath the sword,

I know a fourteenth, that few know:
If I tell a troop of warriors
About the high ones, elves and gods,
I can name them one by one.
(Few can the nit-wit name.)

I know a fifteenth,
that first Thjodrerir
Sang before Delling's doors,
Giving power to gods, prowess to elves,
Fore-sight to Hroptatyr Odhinn,

I know a sixteenth:
if I see a girl
With whom it would please me to play,
I can turn her thoughts, can touch the heart
Of any white armed woman.

I know a seventeenth:
if I sing it,
the young Girl will be slow to forsake me.

I know an eighteenth that I never tell
To maiden or wife of man,
A secret I hide from all
Except the love who lies in my arms,
Or else my own sister.

To learn to sing them, Loddfafnir,
Will take you a long time,
Though helpful they are if you understand them,
Useful if you use them,
Needful if you need them.

The Wise One has spoken words in the hall,
Needful for men to know,
Unneedful for trolls to know:

Hail to the speaker,
Hail to the knower,
Joy to him who has understood,
Delight to those who have listened.





(W. H .Auden & P. B. Taylor Translation ) I belive this to be public domain.

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I have OCD and I've been getting very into polytheism. (Do you think this is necessarily a bad idea? I don't do super intense rituals and the virtue ethics sort of approach helps me in my day-to-day life.) I wouldn't mess around with seiðr personally though. It sounds kinda terrifying, though I respect it a lot.

I also encourage you to read this book...it's an excellent book for the northern path...

9780241953211.jpg
 
One can also get into the....
-sagas
-extra material by...
*Hilda Ellis Davidson
*Gabriel Turville-Petre
...and many others, but who wants unnecessary complications? I thought it was funny and strange that some creatures in this world believed that you have to be as educated as a university post-grad to find peace in this life...sheeeessshhhhh....*laughter*...
 
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