Girl, 6, Handcuffed in school because of temper tantrum.

[enchanted_one1975]

Yeah, handcuffs should be banned ll together!
Just think of all the trauma people get from seeing someone dragged off in them!

The idea of handcuffs is that it prevents a prisoner from harming police while in custody. Is a 37 pound girl, at age 6 going to harm a deputy? In many states it is illegal to handcuff minors. Apparently not Florida.

 

[McBell]

The idea of handcuffs is that it prevents a prisoner from harming police while in custody. Is a 37 pound girl, at age 6 going to harm a deputy? In many states it is illegal to handcuff minors. Apparently not Florida.

Source please.

the reason I ask is because I have not yet found any law in any state that says a minor cannot be handcuffed if they are causing harm or may cause harm to people or property.

I am not saying it does not exist.
I am saying I have not found one.

 

[DallasApple]

Wow I can not believe my eyes when anyone thinkg it is okay to put a 6 year old child in handcuffs for any reason.Its a child for the love of all Gods.How much harm was she gonna do to a police officer that she couldn't be taken out without cuffs that left marks on her.And why was the mom or dad not called instead of the police.Every child throws a fit at one time or another but to have them commited for it is retarded!

How much harm can a 6 year old do? You would be surprised.Especially if they are picking objects and throwing them at you .And you seem to be forgetting if she is in a rage she could hurt herself.A lot more than a red mark on her wrist from being restrained.

One time my 4 year old middle son threw an allibaster egg at my other sons head who was 11 years old and closer to the size of an adult than your average 11 year old..and he had a huge lump on his head that left a giant bruise for about a month. .It didnt kill him but it was very painful and could have done a lot of damage.

If the police officer had to remove her from the premises and she was kicking and screaming and flailing her arms how much injury to the officer would you expect him or her to endure before you would feel it wasnt cruel to restrain the child?

And your mistaken..Not "every 6 year old child" at one time or another has a violent fit in the principles office throwing telephones and pencil sharpners and punching the principle.And not every child does this for 2 days in a row.

Love

Dallas

 

[enchanted_one1975]

State of Florida Statute 39.401 - Taking alleged to be dependent into custody; law enforcement officers and authorized agents of the department.

[SIZE=-1](1) A child may only be taken into custody: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](a) Pursuant to the provisions of this part, based upon sworn testimony, either before or after a petition is filed; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](b) By a law enforcement officer, or an authorized agent of the department, if the officer or authorized agent has probable cause to support a finding: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1. That the child has been abused, neglected, or abandoned, or is suffering from or is in imminent danger of illness or injury as a result of abuse, neglect, or abandonment; [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]2. That the parent or legal custodian of the child has materially violated a condition of placement imposed by the court; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]3. That the child has no parent, legal custodian, or responsible adult relative immediately known and available to provide supervision and care. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](2) If the law enforcement officer takes the child into custody, that officer shall: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](a) Release the child to: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1. The parent or legal custodian of the child; [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]2. A responsible adult approved by the court when limited to temporary emergency situations; [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]3. A responsible adult relative or the adoptive parent of the child's sibling who shall be given priority consideration over a nonrelative placement when this is in the best interests of the child; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]4. A responsible adult approved by the department; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](b) Deliver the child to an authorized agent of the department, stating the facts by reason of which the child was taken into custody and sufficient information to establish probable cause that the child is abandoned, abused, or neglected, or otherwise dependent.

For cases involving allegations of abandonment, abuse, or neglect, or other dependency cases, within 3 days after such release or within 3 days after delivering the child to an authorized agent of the department, the law enforcement officer who took the child into custody shall make a full written report to the department. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](3) If the child is taken into custody by, or is delivered to, an authorized agent of the department, the agent shall review the facts supporting the removal with an attorney representing the department. The purpose of the review is to determine whether there is probable cause for the filing of a shelter petition. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](a) If the facts are not sufficient, the child shall immediately be returned to the custody of the parent or legal custodian. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](b) If the facts are sufficient and the child has not been returned to the custody of the parent or legal custodian, the department shall file the petition and schedule a hearing, and the attorney representing the department shall request that a shelter hearing be held within 24 hours after the removal of the child. While awaiting the shelter hearing, the authorized agent of the department may place the child in licensed shelter care or may release the child to a parent or legal custodian or responsible adult relative or the adoptive parent of the child's sibling who shall be given priority consideration over a licensed placement, or a responsible adult approved by the department if this is in the best interests of the child. Placement of a child which is not in a licensed shelter must be preceded by a criminal history records check as required under s. 39.0138. In addition, the department may authorize placement of a housekeeper/homemaker in the home of a child alleged to be dependent until the parent or legal custodian assumes care of the child. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](4) When a child is taken into custody pursuant to this section, the department shall request that the child's parent, caregiver, or legal custodian disclose the names, relationships, and addresses of all parents and prospective parents and all next of kin of the child, so far as are known. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](5) Judicial review and approval is required within 24 hours after placement for all nonrelative placements. A nonrelative placement must be for a specific and predetermined period of time, not to exceed 12 months, and shall be reviewed by the court at least every 6 months. If the nonrelative placement continues for longer than 12 months, the department shall request the court to establish permanent guardianship or require that the nonrelative seek licensure as a foster care provider within 30 days after the court decision. Failure to establish permanent guardianship or obtain licensure does not require the court to change a child's placement unless it is in the best interest of the child to do so.

According to Florida's own state statute on the matter, the deputy committed a crime by releasing the minor child to a mental hospital instead of to the parent or legal guardian.
[/SIZE]

 

[McBell]

State of Florida Statute 39.401 - Taking alleged to be dependent into custody; law enforcement officers and authorized agents of the department.

According to Florida's own state statute on the matter, the deputy committed a crime by releasing the minor child to a mental hospital instead of to the parent or legal guardian.
[/size][/font]

I guess you missed number four...

 

[enchanted_one1975]

I guess you missed number four...

[SIZE=-1]4. A responsible adult approved by the department; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](b) Deliver the child to an authorized agent of the department, stating the facts by reason of which the child was taken into custody and sufficient information to establish probable cause that the child is abandoned, abused, or neglected, or otherwise dependent. [/SIZE]

Okay...which one does dropping your kid off at school as required by law fall under?

A) Abandonment
B) Abuse
C) Neglect
D) Otherwise dependent
E) None of the above

 

[DallasApple]

The idea of handcuffs is that it prevents a prisoner from harming police while in custody. Is a 37 pound girl, at age 6 going to harm a deputy? In many states it is illegal to handcuff minors. Apparently not Florida.

A deputy is made of flesh and blood.

If the girl was complacent and agreed to go with the officer thats one thing.I would have a problem with the handcuffs.

But if you take a 37 lb "girl" OR BOY (girls and boys are on average the SAME size at that age so lets get off the fact it was a girl)that is in a rage swinging their arms and kicking and scratching and all that you can get injured.Even if its not life threatening injuries why would you require ANYONE to end up with for example a broken nose from a 37 lb helpless child in a rage ?

The child in an active fit has to be restrained one way or another even if by your own hands if you are positioned to remove them from the enviroment and put them in a car.

Did you even consider the fact this officer may have had to pick this child up and carry her to the car?It doesnt sound like she was cooperating and following the officer like duckling.

Would it be O.K then for him/her to handcuff the child or would you still expect the offcer to leave the child unrestrained to be able to hit and scratch them at close proximity?

I dont understand why because this was a child ..why the officer should be expected not to take minimal precaustions to reduce the chance of being injured in any way.

Love

Dallas

 

[McBell]

Okay...which one does dropping your kid off at school as required by law fall under?

A) Abandonment
B) Abuse
C) Neglect
D) Otherwise dependent
E) None of the above

exactly what part of:

[SIZE=-1]A responsible adult approved by the department
[/SIZE]​

are you having problems with understanding?

Please note the 'or' before AND after the above part...

[SIZE=-1]3. A responsible adult relative or the adoptive parent of the child's sibling who shall be given priority consideration over a nonrelative placement when this is in the best interests of the child; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]4. A responsible adult approved by the department; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](b) Deliver the child to an[/SIZE]​

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Would it be O.K then for him/her to handcuff the child or would you still expect the offcer to leave the child unrestrained to be able to hit and scratch them at close proximity?

If dire circumstances existed it may be permissible if you had handcuffs or other restraints that would fit the child. This idiot jammed both of her wrists into one side of the cuffs and clamped them down, leaving marks. That is aggravated battery which is a felony.

 

[McBell]

If dire circumstances existed it may be permissible if you had handcuffs or other restraints that would fit the child. This idiot jammed both of her wrists into one side of the cuffs and clamped them down, leaving marks. That is aggravated battery which is a felony.

Perhaps it would be IF there is a law that minors are not to be handcuffed....
Did you perhaps miss this:

The idea of handcuffs is that it prevents a prisoner from harming police while in custody. Is a 37 pound girl, at age 6 going to harm a deputy? In many states it is illegal to handcuff minors. Apparently not Florida.

Source please.

the reason I ask is because I have not yet found any law in any state that says a minor cannot be handcuffed if they are causing harm or may cause harm to people or property.

I am not saying it does not exist.
I am saying I have not found one.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

exactly what part of:

[SIZE=-1]A responsible adult approved by the department
[/SIZE]​

are you having problems with understanding?

Please note the 'or' before AND after the above part...

[SIZE=-1]3. A responsible adult relative or the adoptive parent of the child's sibling who shall be given priority consideration over a nonrelative placement when this is in the best interests of the child; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]4. A responsible adult approved by the department; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](b) Deliver the child to an[/SIZE]​

Who is this responsible adult? They dumped her off at a mental hospital and rehab facility. I would like to see where this facility has been established and approved by the department as an adult to release a 6 year old child to.

 

[McBell]

Who is this responsible adult? They dumped her off at a mental hospital and rehab facility. I would like to see where this facility has been established and approved by the department as an adult to release a 6 year old child to.

Split hairs much?
Or are you just not wanting to end your little rant?

 

[DallasApple]

And speaking of inabilty to harm..My grandbaby (yes baby he is 22 months old) sometimes doesnt want to cooperate when Im changing his diaper.And he kicks like a bucking mule..HARD..and because Im so close he as kicked me in the chest hard enough to knock the wind out of me.He has also kicked me in the face and split my lip.He weighs 28 lbs.

Dont ask me if I "handcuff' him either.No ..but I hold his ankles together as best I can and with him resisting as he does it has left red marks behind on his ankles .But Im not going to sit there and say "hes just a baby" and let him kick me in the face or knock one of my teeth out or break my nose or leave me black and blue when all Im doing is trying to put a clean diaper on him .

And that is a baby who doesnt even really understand yet that he is hurting me.A six year old knows exactly what they are doing.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Who is this responsible adult? They dumped her off at a mental hospital and rehab facility. I would like to see where this facility has been established and approved by the department as an adult to release a 6 year old child to.

A mental health fascility IMHO would be best equipped to care for a child having a mental breakdown that apparerntly started at least the day before that the parents had done nothing to address or if they had communicated with the school exactly what it was they did to address it.

And why say "dumped"? You make it sound like he took her and threw her in a trash can.

Love

Dallas

 

[enchanted_one1975]

A mental health fascility IMHO would be best equipped to care for a child having a mental breakdown that apparerntly started at least the day before that the parents had done nothing to address or if they had communicated with the school exactly what it was they did to address it.

That is not for you or a deputy to decide. That is between the parents, child services, and the courts.

And why say "dumped"? You make it sound like he took her and threw her in a trash can.

After committing a felony level aggravated battery on the child I don't see that his feelings could have been anything short of dumping her off like trash.

Split hairs much?
Or are you just not wanting to end your little rant?

Rant? I am a former police officer. I had my share of dealing with brats at school. I followed procedure though. Any problem children were referred to CYFD (Children Youth Family Division). Had I acted as this deputy has I would expect the child to be using my house as a clubhouse and that my pension would be the child's college fund.

 

[DallasApple]

Who is this responsible adult? They dumped her off at a mental hospital and rehab facility. I would like to see where this facility has been established and approved by the department as an adult to release a 6 year old child to.

Its the same thing if she had been released to a medical fascility to be attended to for a physical emergency.If she had been choking ..and they took her to an emergency room would you then question what "adult" they released her to?

On my childrens school forms when they ask "who to contact in case of medical emergency" I put '911" ..That isnt a "who".And of course they have my contact information and my husbands.

Love

Dallas

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Its the same thing if she had been released to a medical fascility to be attended to for a physical emergency.If she had been choking ..and they took her to an emergency room would you then question what "adult" they released her to?

Are you saying the child posed an immediate danger to herself? Was she trying to cut her wrists? Was she trying to climb out a window? Run out into traffic? I don't see where putting a 6 year old girl into a rehab center without parental consent is a medical emergency. To be defined as a medical emergency it must be life or limb threatening, the last time I checked.

 

[DallasApple]

That is not for you or a deputy to decide. That is between the parents, child services, and the courts.

Yes it is for "me to decide" if Im the one having to make an emergency descision in the parents abscence.

Love

Dallas

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Yes it is for "me to decide" if Im the one having to make an emergency descision in the parents abscence.

That's not what Florida state statute says. By emergency are you saying the child's life or limbs were in immediate danger to where taking the time to call a parent would have been unreasonable?

 

[Smoke]

Did anyone think maybe the parents should have been called instead? Geeze! Am I the only one here that thinks it is a parent's job, not the state's, to raise a child?

Of course it's the parents' job. So why aren't they doing it?