God and Goddess: A Question of Balance

[Guitar's Cry]

When looking at modern paganism, Goddess worship appears much more widespread than God worship. Yet in many forms of Paganism, there is the ideal of the balance of masculine and feminine energies.

The mainstream opinion of this seems to be that Pagan Goddess worship arose to counteract the unbalanced Christian viewpoint of the masculine, and I tend to agree. But with Paganism coming out of the shadows and becoming a mainstream movement, should some of the focus fall back on the God, lest Paganism falls victim to an unbalanced theology?

My own viewpoint is that of a pantheist who sees God as all and none of the genders. The genders are symbols designed to help us connect to different paradigms within us. But this conflict between the God and Goddess symbols is something very real within practical theology, and it seems that a balance must be struck on a personal and societal level for spiritual growth to continue.

Any viewpoints? Opinions? Thoughts?

 

[Gentoo]

To me, the unbalanced worship of Goddess over the God has gotten extremely frustrating. But before I let loose, I'll take a break and let other people post first.

 

[Dreamwolf]

I was asked once why all pagans seemed to know the faces of the Gddess (maiden, mother and crone) but no one seemed to know what the equivalent would be for the God. I thought about that for a while and indeed it seemed to me that things were unbalanced and I came up with (son, father, mage). It's odd to me how in paganism everyone sees the Goddess trinity but you have to look to Chrisitanity to see the God trinity. Maybe one day people will start to believe that Paganism and Christianity are to halves of a whole. It would make for a fascinating debate!

 

[Willamena]

I was asked once why all pagans seemed to know the faces of the Gddess (maiden, mother and crone) but no one seemed to know what the equivalent would be for the God.

The goddess is "of time" or mortal existence. As time progresses, the moon progresses through its phases. It has a shadow that diminishes to "full moon," and then grows to engulf the moon (new moon). So the moon goes through a monthly dying, and a rebirth as a new crescent. The goddess has faces that are reflected in the changing phases of the moon: waxing, full, and waning. She represents an "eternity in time" of mortal birth and rebirth (the new vegetation growing on the decay of the old into soil).

God, in most religions, is eternity in "now," apart from time. "Now" is a moment with no beginning and no ending. He is represented in the sun, which has no shadow and never dies (except during eclipses, which are understandably interpreted as catastrophic), so he doesn't have three faces. The trinity is a concept of three ways of looking at one God: "as the" Father, "as the" Son, "as the" Holy Spirit.

(Hope I got that right.)

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I think that perhaps this is where our own cultural conflicts come in. Yes, I do primarily worship the Goddess. But, in doing so, it heals my relationship with the God. I don't not celebrate the God- it's just that he's not my primary focus. (And, for that matter, nor is the Goddess. It's more nature itself that is.)

There are varying degrees of balance, and I'm starting to realize that the male/female one is simply something that doesn't suit my personal spirituality. But it would bother me that anyone would think that I am somehow less Pagan for focusing on a certain aspect of Deity. (During the 70's, Dianic practitioners were apparently attacked by other Wiccans due to their beliefs.)

 

[lunamoth]

Can a slightly heretical Episcopalian chime in here?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Can a slightly heretical Episcopalian chime in here?

You know you're always welcome here! :hug:

 

[lunamoth]

You know you're always welcome here! :hug:

Thank you Feathers!

I'm just wondering if in Paganism there is any sense of God and Goddess actually being beyond gender. When I think about God the Father, for instance, it is helpful that I think in anthropomorphic terms, so it's appropriate that I use the language of Him and Person. But, In my meditations I also know that God is beyond gender, and to say God/Goddess is always a limitation based in my own limitations as a human. So, it makes sense that we might choose God or Goddess language in our worship, and the choice we make reflects something of our own character and needs, but at the deepest level the More is neither male nor female.

Does that make any sense? Also, hope I have not said anything to offend...not trying to put paganism into a Christian box...just trying to understand and find common ground.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

But it would bother me that anyone would think that I am somehow less Pagan for focusing on a certain aspect of Deity. (During the 70's, Dianic practitioners were apparently attacked by other Wiccans due to their beliefs.)

I wouldn't agree with that at all. No one is less anything due to personal religious belief.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Thank you Feathers!

I'm just wondering if in Paganism there is any sense of God and Goddess actually being beyond gender. When I think about God the Father, for instance, it is helpful that I think in anthropomorphic terms, so it's appropriate that I use the language of Him and Person. But, In my meditations I also know that God is beyond gender, and to say God/Goddess is always a limitation based in my own limitations as a human. So, it makes sense that we might choose God or Goddess language in our worship, and the choice we make reflects something of our own character and needs, but at the deepest level the More is neither male nor female.

Does that make any sense? Also, hope I have not said anything to offend...not trying to put paganism into a Christian box...just trying to understand and find common ground.

That makes perfect sense! I really like the idea of anthropomorphic personification having more to do with our own selves and then spirituality transcending that. That was a great insight- thanks for sharing it!

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I thought about that for a while and indeed it seemed to me that things were unbalanced and I came up with (son, father, mage). It's odd to me how in paganism everyone sees the Goddess trinity but you have to look to Chrisitanity to see the God trinity. Maybe one day people will start to believe that Paganism and Christianity are to halves of a whole. It would make for a fascinating debate!

I like the son, father, mage idea of a male trinity! It is also a neat looking at Christianity and Paganism as being two halves of a whole. I think that every religion has something good to offer, and it is important to look at these positive aspects rather than seeing the differences...

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The goddess is "of time" or mortal existence. As time progresses, the moon progresses through its phases. It has a shadow that diminishes to "full moon," and then grows to engulf the moon (new moon). So the moon goes through a monthly dying, and a rebirth as a new crescent. The goddess has faces that are reflected in the changing phases of the moon: waxing, full, and waning. She represents an "eternity in time" of mortal birth and rebirth (the new vegetation growing on the decay of the old into soil).

God, in most religions, is eternity in "now," apart from time. "Now" is a moment with no beginning and no ending. He is represented in the sun, which has no shadow and never dies (except during eclipses, which are understandably interpreted as catastrophic), so he doesn't have three faces. The trinity is a concept of three ways of looking at one God: "as the" Father, "as the" Son, "as the" Holy Spirit.

(Hope I got that right.)

Very well put! What's interesting is how the Goddess appears to be the more popular figure. Gentoo addressed in another thread that it is hard to find rituals honoring the God as compared to finding rituals honoring the Goddess.

Do you think the symbols associated with them have something to do with it?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I'm just wondering if in Paganism there is any sense of God and Goddess actually being beyond gender. When I think about God the Father, for instance, it is helpful that I think in anthropomorphic terms, so it's appropriate that I use the language of Him and Person. But, In my meditations I also know that God is beyond gender, and to say God/Goddess is always a limitation based in my own limitations as a human. .

I see God (a pantheistic version) as genderless (or composed of all genders, equating the same thing) as well.

The God/Goddess duality in Paganism is really just one of many ways that Pagans view divinity (if they believe in a divinity). Since Pagan is an umbrella term for a varied group, there are many interpretation, but the God/Goddess is fairly popular, especially among Wiccans. Pantheism, which most often assumes a genderless God, is also pretty common among Pagans.

 

[BFD_Zayl]

well for me, since i'm a pantheist, Gods and Goddesses have distinct personality and gender, well, most of them do. Hades has always and will always be seen as a male, he has faults, weaknesses, and failings. which makes him much easier to work with and respect. despite all this he still holds great power. Thanatos on the other hand is a mystery as deep and clouded as death, because he is death. he has come to me in dreams and trances. i see him as a figure in a dark ragged robe, nothing shows from underneath his hood, and he holds a sword and he reaches to me. i have yet to determine if this should be taken as if he's lending a hand....or coming for me. and Hecate i'm sure almost ALL of you are familiar with...so it is difficult for me to see a God or Goddess as just "there"

 

[Gentoo]

God, in most religions, is eternity in "now," apart from time. "Now" is a moment with no beginning and no ending. He is represented in the sun, which has no shadow and never dies (except during eclipses, which are understandably interpreted as catastrophic), so he doesn't have three faces. The trinity is a concept of three ways of looking at one God: "as the" Father, "as the" Son, "as the" Holy Spirit.

(Hope I got that right.)

The sun rises and sets every day. With the new dawning we see new beginnings, a new day, youth; the strong and vibrant midday sun at height of it's journey; and the setting, yeilding to a new transgretion, endings, death even. Three faces, every day...

 

[Dreamwolf]

The sun rises and sets every day. With the new dawning we see new beginnings, a new day, youth; the strong and vibrant midday sun at height of it's journey; and the setting, yeilding to a new transgretion, endings, death even. Three faces, every day...

Thats exactly what I was thinking too, you got to it first though! But you could also consider the changing seasons as the faces of the God because mostly the changes are in length of day (a.k.a. the Sun) in a given location.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Thanks for all the replies!

What I'm curious about is why other people think the Goddess has been the focal point of mainstream Paganism. Is it a cultural phenomenon? A reaction to the overwhelming masculinity of Christianity?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

The more I think about it, the more I love the 'male trinity' idea! It also fits in with Gentoo's perception of the changing face of the sun.

 

[Dreamwolf]

Both a reactio to the masculinity of Christianity and the one way and only one way-ness of it, for me anyway. As far as the general population, I think its a combination of both of your possibilities. Maybe it's just another one of those religious evolutions that humans go through every so often.

 

[Green Gaia]

A reaction to the overwhelming masculinity of Christianity?

Absolutely. For me at least.

For this agnostic, I believe we choose our deities that we feel closest too. I am well aware that my attraction to a female deity is a reaction to being overwhelmed with a male deity at for most of my life. While I may not believe in deities as a theist, pantheist or polytheist would, I do recognize the usefulness and worth in them.