Things can't be defined into existence.
I agree things can't be defined into existence. What are we really discussing than, regarding God is three options.
(1) He is seen in imagination only.
(2) He is seen in both imagination and reality (conceptually can be imagined + can be seen to exist).
(3) He can only be seen to exist.
Now I'm talking about something unique about God, is that 3 Uniquely applies to Him.
Necessary facts.
A necessary fact is something that holds true in all possible worlds. Possible worlds means logically possible. This means for example mathematics. 1+1=2 is consistent and holds true in all possible worlds.
I also believe morality is like that. Moral rules are necessary truths.
Necessary Existence.
This would be an Existence that has to be there in all logical possible worlds.
Difference between asserting necessary and seeing
I can assert a pizza is necessary in all worlds. However it's impossible to conceive that no logical possible world can exist without a pizza. In fact, conceiving of a possible world without a pizza is easy and so there is a difference in asserting and conceiving. It's impossible to conceive a pizza as a necessary existence.
If God Exists
I find over the years with my experience with Atheists, they will assume in every argument, God doesn't exist and you trying to cheat them with words to make them believe.
If God doesn't exist, there is no proving Him. This is for sure. But like I said earlier, if God exists, I believe he is of category 3 out of these 3 possibilities:
(1) Can only be seen to exist in imagination and possibly seen not to exist in a logical possible world.
(2) Can be seen in in imagination or witnessed in reality, can be imagine to exist or not exist in a logical possible world.
(3) Can only be seen to exist in reality (cannot be imagined to exist nor imagine not to exist, only seen to exist).
God is a proof of himself for his creation
What does this mean? For example, you are yourself evidence that you exist. When you think, when you talk, you see yourself exist. Now God is I'm arguing is not only seen to exist, but, while you can imagine yourself not existing in a possible world (suppose your parents didn't meet), you can't imagine God doesn't exist. In fact, he is evident in his existence.
If this is true, what can we observe about him.
Fully conception of God is impossible. But we know things about it. That's it good, that's wise, that's powerful, that it's compassionate, etc.
I'm saying from viewpoint of existence, we can beyond observing it to exist, know it's impossible for it not to not exist in any possible logical world. This how we know there is only one God.
Greatness.
Greatness facts are also to me necessary truths.
Observing the Magnitude of God.
If God is of type three, when we think of his magnitude in terms of life, we see there is no life he lacks at all. If he was lacking any in life amount, he would be less great.
Lesser ideas of God can be imagined.
We can imagine Creator be whatever, this is true. In fact, three is only true of the true reality of God.
Why Necessary Being and Absolute Existence is synonymous.
His existence is filled solidified into a unity a oneness and a single essence, but from another perspective, nothing can exist but is rooted somehow from this oneness, and all perfections or beauty or glory is found in this being. Life wise he is immense to the extent, no possible life in any possible world, can exist, beyond it. He is the ALL.
Why Necessary Being can only be God.
Everything else by default is dependent on it. Life wise, if there exists any independent existence possible in any possible world, then it's proven by that, God is not Necessary Existence. This is because an existence in some world x that is logically coherent can exist without God. The reason this would be possible, is because God would no longer be absolute existence if this was the case. God in this case, would be a lesser magnitude in terms of existence.
Does God exist in imagination or in reality or both?
If in imagination only, the story is over. No need to reflect. You can't prove God in this case.
If both, this argument doesn't work. You will have to go to a different means to perceive God.
But when think about it, when we recall God, we see that magnitude of his is so great, that the Predicate argument that existence is irrelevant and doesn't add to the concept, is false, by Kant. In case of God, Getting to the intense level of Necessary type existence, does add to it. It's actually the only way you can know there are no more gods then God. Oneness of God in holy books hence was always proving God, but proving more. It was killing two or more birds in one stone.
Greatest Human being.
In the hadiths, Mohammad is said to be the greatest human being. In fact, in the hadiths Ali is said to be the greatest human being. Contradiction? Not really.
It's not. In fact, there is Blessing prayer that calls each of the members of Ahlulbayt, that. A long Salawat I can share the link to it if anyone is interested.
I'm not sure how "greatest" or "best" works in English, but if a human being submits to God in the best manner possible, and there is no neglect or fault on their part in that, they are maximally great as human beings in Quran understanding.
If they embrace every blessing coming their way with utmost power and submission to God, then, there is no reason to say one is better then the other, they've reached all God can ask of humans to do.
There is more then one best in this scenario. And it doesn't downgrade their status to be in their realm as equals.
Why God can't have an equal or twin?
Unlike everything else, repetition would mean God is significantly less great than the greatest possible being. This is because God's Magnitude is comprehensive of all life, power, beauty, etc, and life and existence wise, that solidified intensity oneness where it's all found, can only be one single reality/essence.
So when we think about this from this perspective, it's realized, that only God be seen as needing to be unique to maintain the status of his greatness.
Mohamad doesn't lose status if Fatima is his equal. God does if he has an equal.
The Ontological argument and arguments for oneness of God are one and the same.
God absolute existence proven he exists is trivial. If he exists, we can see he exists. The ontological argument is even proving more then this. It's proving it's not that we happen to have a God/Creator and some other logical world could've have a different type of Creator. God is a Necessary Being. And it also proves there can't be an independent existence aside from God. Everything else possible - is dependent on it.
But for the sake of relevance to Atheists, it proves, God cannot be imagined to exist or not exist, but rather only seen to exist.
The question of defining things to existence we agree upon, it's impossible. The argument in the OP is that God is not only observable, but when we look at it, we see it can't be imagined to exist or not exist. Only seen to exist because the nature of it's magnitude and it being necessary.
I agree things can't be defined into existence. What are we really discussing than, regarding God is three options.
(1) He is seen in imagination only.
(2) He is seen in both imagination and reality (conceptually can be imagined + can be seen to exist).
(3) He can only be seen to exist.
Now I'm talking about something unique about God, is that 3 Uniquely applies to Him.
Necessary facts.
A necessary fact is something that holds true in all possible worlds. Possible worlds means logically possible. This means for example mathematics. 1+1=2 is consistent and holds true in all possible worlds.
I also believe morality is like that. Moral rules are necessary truths.
Necessary Existence.
This would be an Existence that has to be there in all logical possible worlds.
Difference between asserting necessary and seeing
I can assert a pizza is necessary in all worlds. However it's impossible to conceive that no logical possible world can exist without a pizza. In fact, conceiving of a possible world without a pizza is easy and so there is a difference in asserting and conceiving. It's impossible to conceive a pizza as a necessary existence.
If God Exists
I find over the years with my experience with Atheists, they will assume in every argument, God doesn't exist and you trying to cheat them with words to make them believe.
If God doesn't exist, there is no proving Him. This is for sure. But like I said earlier, if God exists, I believe he is of category 3 out of these 3 possibilities:
(1) Can only be seen to exist in imagination and possibly seen not to exist in a logical possible world.
(2) Can be seen in in imagination or witnessed in reality, can be imagine to exist or not exist in a logical possible world.
(3) Can only be seen to exist in reality (cannot be imagined to exist nor imagine not to exist, only seen to exist).
God is a proof of himself for his creation
What does this mean? For example, you are yourself evidence that you exist. When you think, when you talk, you see yourself exist. Now God is I'm arguing is not only seen to exist, but, while you can imagine yourself not existing in a possible world (suppose your parents didn't meet), you can't imagine God doesn't exist. In fact, he is evident in his existence.
If this is true, what can we observe about him.
Fully conception of God is impossible. But we know things about it. That's it good, that's wise, that's powerful, that it's compassionate, etc.
I'm saying from viewpoint of existence, we can beyond observing it to exist, know it's impossible for it not to not exist in any possible logical world. This how we know there is only one God.
Greatness.
Greatness facts are also to me necessary truths.
Observing the Magnitude of God.
If God is of type three, when we think of his magnitude in terms of life, we see there is no life he lacks at all. If he was lacking any in life amount, he would be less great.
Lesser ideas of God can be imagined.
We can imagine Creator be whatever, this is true. In fact, three is only true of the true reality of God.
Why Necessary Being and Absolute Existence is synonymous.
His existence is filled solidified into a unity a oneness and a single essence, but from another perspective, nothing can exist but is rooted somehow from this oneness, and all perfections or beauty or glory is found in this being. Life wise he is immense to the extent, no possible life in any possible world, can exist, beyond it. He is the ALL.
Why Necessary Being can only be God.
Everything else by default is dependent on it. Life wise, if there exists any independent existence possible in any possible world, then it's proven by that, God is not Necessary Existence. This is because an existence in some world x that is logically coherent can exist without God. The reason this would be possible, is because God would no longer be absolute existence if this was the case. God in this case, would be a lesser magnitude in terms of existence.
Does God exist in imagination or in reality or both?
If in imagination only, the story is over. No need to reflect. You can't prove God in this case.
If both, this argument doesn't work. You will have to go to a different means to perceive God.
But when think about it, when we recall God, we see that magnitude of his is so great, that the Predicate argument that existence is irrelevant and doesn't add to the concept, is false, by Kant. In case of God, Getting to the intense level of Necessary type existence, does add to it. It's actually the only way you can know there are no more gods then God. Oneness of God in holy books hence was always proving God, but proving more. It was killing two or more birds in one stone.
Greatest Human being.
In the hadiths, Mohammad is said to be the greatest human being. In fact, in the hadiths Ali is said to be the greatest human being. Contradiction? Not really.
It's not. In fact, there is Blessing prayer that calls each of the members of Ahlulbayt, that. A long Salawat I can share the link to it if anyone is interested.
I'm not sure how "greatest" or "best" works in English, but if a human being submits to God in the best manner possible, and there is no neglect or fault on their part in that, they are maximally great as human beings in Quran understanding.
If they embrace every blessing coming their way with utmost power and submission to God, then, there is no reason to say one is better then the other, they've reached all God can ask of humans to do.
There is more then one best in this scenario. And it doesn't downgrade their status to be in their realm as equals.
Why God can't have an equal or twin?
Unlike everything else, repetition would mean God is significantly less great than the greatest possible being. This is because God's Magnitude is comprehensive of all life, power, beauty, etc, and life and existence wise, that solidified intensity oneness where it's all found, can only be one single reality/essence.
So when we think about this from this perspective, it's realized, that only God be seen as needing to be unique to maintain the status of his greatness.
Mohamad doesn't lose status if Fatima is his equal. God does if he has an equal.
The Ontological argument and arguments for oneness of God are one and the same.
God absolute existence proven he exists is trivial. If he exists, we can see he exists. The ontological argument is even proving more then this. It's proving it's not that we happen to have a God/Creator and some other logical world could've have a different type of Creator. God is a Necessary Being. And it also proves there can't be an independent existence aside from God. Everything else possible - is dependent on it.
But for the sake of relevance to Atheists, it proves, God cannot be imagined to exist or not exist, but rather only seen to exist.
The question of defining things to existence we agree upon, it's impossible. The argument in the OP is that God is not only observable, but when we look at it, we see it can't be imagined to exist or not exist. Only seen to exist because the nature of it's magnitude and it being necessary.
