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God does exist
- Thread starter FearGod
- Start date
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
And still some people believe those things to be the words of God.
What surprised me that when I started to think about the size of the paradise and worked to find it with the few information that I have in hand then the result was amazing.
There is only 2 answers for it
God does exist or coincidence
I don't understand what you mean?
Why would they not believe they are the words of God? Are you saying that Genesis's use of Firmament is wrong? If you go by tradition are you saying that Moses is wrong?
So what definition of Firmament are you using?
Sees
Dragonslayer
Please address this before we say if it's a miracle or coincidence bro.
If it's a miracle give credit to the source...
Also what are you thoughts on the Rabbi/scholar musings and commentary showing up in the Qur'an several times?
If Muhammad's inspiration was not sure what is Scripture for Jews and what is not....how would he know about the vast, mysterious universe?
Here is something from Wikipedia about Jewish seven heavens
"The Biblical authors pictured the earth as a flat disk floating in water, with the heavens above and the underworld below.[2] The raqiya (firmament), a solid inverted bowl above the earth, coloured blue by the cosmic ocean, kept the waters above the earth from flooding the world.[3] From about 300 BCE the three-tiered cosmos was largely replaced by a newer Greek model which saw the earth as a sphere at the centre of a set of seven concentric heavens, one for each visible planet plus the sun and moon, with the realm of God in an eighth and highest heaven, but although several Jewish works from this period have multiple heavens, as do some New Testament works, none has exactly the formal Greek system.[4]
In the course of the 1st millennium CE Jewish scholars developed an elaborate system of Seven Heavens, their names being Vilon (וילון, also called "arafel"), Raki'a (רקיע, Shehaqim (שחקים
Isn't it ok to just see this stuff as mythology that dealt with dreams and mystical talk? When you dig into it enough you might uncover stuff you don't like, instead of an amazing hidden scientific truth.
This was another case where Talmud and Rabbi musings made it into the Qur'an as scripture when it wasn't scripture to begin with. Muhammad didn't know the source of what he heard from Jews and assumed it was all heavenly Scripture from angels.
Same thing with the "spare one life is like sparing all mankind" Rabbi musings... Not Scripture.
I would just let it be what it is.
If it's a miracle give credit to the source...
Also what are you thoughts on the Rabbi/scholar musings and commentary showing up in the Qur'an several times?
If Muhammad's inspiration was not sure what is Scripture for Jews and what is not....how would he know about the vast, mysterious universe?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
So the side of the Solar System on the other side of the Sun in this picture doesn't count as part of the "heavens"? Why not? Let's also not forget that the size of this area you have can vary: Pluto can come to 4,437,000,000 kilometers of the Sun and the Earth can go out to 152,098,232 kilometers. This would shrink the size of your heaven model to 4,191,901,768 kilometers.
Can you provide any Qu'ranic evidence for the way you set up your layer model? Does it say that Mercury, Venus and the asteroid belt do not "count" enough to comprise their own layers? If not, then it still sounds like you're just labeling things in such a way that it makes it convenient to your theory. Don't forget that "above", "below", "up" and "down" don't exist in space. If you're speaking about "above" Earth, then anything you see in the night sky can count as "above" Earth, including Mercury and Venus.
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FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
We believe that the bible was distorted to some degree.
There is no definition to sky or heaven other than the vast space over our heads.
One example to sort which I regard it as an amazing fact in verse 6:125
Whomsoever God desires to guide, He expands his breast to Islam; whomsoever He desires to lead astray, He makes his breast narrow, tight, as if he were climbing to heaven. So God lays abomination upon those who believe not.
God says that he'll make the sinful soul to hate Islam and his breast to feel narrow and tight as if he is climbing upward in the sky.
So all the way up is the sky.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Of course not, please read carefully the OP.
it is about the distance from earth to heavens thats equal to the width of the paradise.
The solar system isn't one body or one circle at one moment.
So how about when Pluto is on the opposite side of the Sun from Earth? Why would that distance not count?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
You can see how close I am.
How far is Pluto from Earth
The width between earth and the edge is upward and not downward.
Mate, we are talking about billions of Kilometers.
Is it by coincidence or God indeed does exist.
Not 100%, though (especially when you still haven't given a satisfactory explanation for why the inner edge of the Kupier belt is more relevant than its outer edge in these measurements). How about when Neptune and Pluto are on opposite sides of the Sun? That would greatly increase the size of the "heavens" when you measure the distance between them (unless you'd want to argue that Pluto goes outside of the heavens when it goes on the opposite side of the Sun for some reason).
Except that "upward" and "outward" are not synonyms.
What does that matter?
I'm not arguing that God doesn't exist. It's your methods I find wanting.
egcroc
we're all stardust
FearGod, i'm not going to enter a pointless discussion with you about those calculations... but I'm just saying that if you wanna take your religious scriptures literally, you should take them all or leave them all... what I'm seeing here is that you are cherry picking the stuff that you believe to be compatible with science and just ignore all the fairy tales found in Islamic books about the descriptions and contents of the seven heavens... I'm sure you know what I'm talking about because that's Islamic theology 5th Grade Stuff, don't get me started because I won't stop ...
...
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
FearGod, i'm not going to enter a pointless discussion with you about those calculations... but I'm just saying that if you wanna take your religious scriptures literally, you should take them all or leave them all... what I'm seeing here is that you are cherry picking the stuff that you believe to be compatible with science and just ignore all the fairy tales found in Islamic books about the descriptions and contents of the seven heavens... I'm sure you know what I'm talking about because that's Islamic theology 5th Grade Stuff, don't get me started because I won't stop
You can go ahead if your discussion is based on the quran and not on fairy tales.
Triumphant_Loser
Libertarian Egalitarian
Yeah! Base it on actual historical facts... like Muhammad's flying donkey or Solomon's magic carpet.:sarcastic
Quirkybird
Member
I don't believe the deity as portrayed in the Bible exists, I believe it is a totally human creation.
egcroc
we're all stardust
is there really a difference between the two?!! :sarcastic
egcroc
we're all stardust
...or the scientifically proven fact that meteors are actually divine arrows sent down by angels to kill demons trying to infiltrate heaven and listen to Angel Gossip - Quran [72:9],[67:5]
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Do you want me to guess whats going on billions of light years away from our galaxy.
Do you believe that UFOS do exist and i hope that you do believe that you yourself do exist and not a delusion.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Are you serious in your discussion or just childish comments.
Quirkybird
Member
We could all be living a delusion, maybe we are just characters in a very sophisticated computer game. There is no way to prove that we aren't!