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God does not care if I go to hell

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
How else can it possibly be viewed? Its a torture chamber created for those who cant accept things without reason and evidence. What kind of a punishment is this for such a petty crime. Logic seems to be frowned upon by God. I would love your take on it however, it could be that your stance makes more sense then the viewpoint I was raised with.
That sounds like more of an evangelical Protestant view of hell. For one, I'm Catholic. We don't even have to believe that anyone is in hell. There's a wide variety of theological emphases in Catholicism, including Eastern Christian views (as the Church includes the Eastern Rite, not just the Roman/Latin-Rite), which differ from most Western Christian views. I personally lean towards universal reconciliation, which teaches that all souls will eventually be reconciled to God, including Satan. I at least hold out the hope for that. But as for hell, I take a more Eastern Christian viewpoint of it, which is that hell is basically the rejection of God's love and the experience of it as torment. In this view, one must consciously choose to reject God. It's not a matter of mere difference of belief or non-belief. You must consciously choose to turn from God and all the goodness that flows from Him. You choose the path of destruction, in this view. So merely being an atheist probably wouldn't get you to that point, since you must first know the truth and choose to reject it. Atheists, to my understanding, are typically striving to find the truth like most people are.

The Catholic Church teaches that Christians and other religious people have their share of the blame in making people into atheists by misrepresenting God, hurting people and causing scandal in the name of God. It also teaches that one cannot be blamed for not being presented with an authentic (Christ-like) view of God while they were alive. (We should witness by actions and only use words if necessary, as the quote popularly attributed to St. Francis of Assisi goes.) So it's understandable that some who have been hurt by religion would turn away from it. So those who harm in the name of religion would be judged much more harshly than someone who simply doesn't believe.

Also, Catholicism believes in Purgatory, which is a state of purification that occurs after death for those who haven't consciously rejected God but still have things keeping them from going directly to Heaven. It is said that Angels and even Christ Himself minister to those in Purgatory. The Church on earth also prays for the holy souls in Purgatory. All those in Purgatory eventually find their way into Heaven. I think most of us end up going to Purgatory, personally, as I think most of us are basically good and striving to find the truth in love, in life.

Also, God wills that no soul be separate from Him. We have our own free will to decide, however. He does not wish that anyone go to hell, since He created us to share in His love and goodness. What good is love without a beloved, after all.
 
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The Transcended Omniverse

Well-Known Member
Well, I posted a vision some years ago and got contacted by 2 angels. So why would God bother with a skeptic who will scoff at everything God shows them ?

What is the point ? Anyway, according to the pope (Sept 23 2015) and UN (Dec 23 2016), the antichrist will be in place on 23rd Sept 2017.

So if none of Christianity is true, then why are the globalists obeying their Book of Lies, and going to ram the Mark of the Beast down everyone's throat before the end of this year ?

They have already successfully reduced Damascus to a 'ruinous heap' as stated in the Bible and turned a third of world water bitter (radioactiive via Fukushima).

You claim that I am some skeptic who scoffs. This is a big misconception of me. There is a difference between a scoffer and someone with a truly open mind and heart who considers all possibilities. The fact of the matter is, your vision has other possible explanations that you are not taking into account. Perhaps it was a hallucination, perhaps it was a coincidence, etc. There are just many other possibilities to consider. That is why I am unable to be convinced of anything.

I am still undecided on the existence of God and the afterlife. So why wouldn't God reveal himself to me.
I found your answer within your own post. You don't believe what the Bible is telling you!
Read 1 John 1:9, and than believe it.
The more you read and study, the more you will grow. His word says that if you ask for faith He will give it. His Word also says that He is not wanting any to perish but for all to come to the knowledge of His Son, the Savior of the world.

ronandcarol

I have already read the bible. There are just so many more things to have an open mind to other than some ancient holy book. Also, what other way could you possibly expect me to believe in this God if he were real? The best that anyone can ever do is to research into all the claimed evidence out there for God/afterlife and the skeptics. I said this before. There is no other way I can be convinced because any other way would be irrational/close minded and I already realize this.

If, let's pretend, that I developed a faith in God due to a strong overwhelming feeling of his existence, then that would be close minded and irrational because feelings do not dictate what is true. If, for example, you felt that you were superman who could jump miles high into the sky, that would not make that true. So I see no other way I can be convinced other than open minded research which, by the way, still hasn't convinced me. If that hasn't convinced me, then nothing else can. I don't see how there can be anything else.

bullpuckie ...

What I meant by that statement was that I have looked into as much claimed evidence as I possibly could. I am not going to waste my entire life doing any more research because I have researched all I could.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Also, I'd like to add that Catholicism teaches that hell is not really a "place" so much as it is a state of being. It is a state that one can seemingly exist in while still alive. It is not a "torture chamber" or a place below the earth or whatever. It is the state of willful separation from God, in our hearts.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
My previous topics were just way too long for anyone to bother reading and replying to. Therefore, I will make this topic which summarizes my point I wish to discuss. I am not lying when I said that I have looked into everything I possibly could with an honest open mind and heart. I am still undecided on the existence of God and the afterlife. So why wouldn't God reveal himself to me and his truth for someone like me who does indeed have an honest open mind and heart? It makes no sense to me unless God is uncaring, unloving, etc. and he doesn't really care that I go to hell for not believing and not serving him.

1. you're confusing God as apart from self. That makes you outside, or separate, from God. The bible doesn't teach any god apart from self. God is Love.

I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

2. the Kingdom of God comes from within, self-realization(revelation) isn't apart, or realized outside of self. God is Love.
 
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FunctionalAtheist

Hammer of Reason
Well, I posted a vision some years ago and got contacted by 2 angels. So why would God bother with a skeptic who will scoff at everything God shows them ?

What is the point ? Anyway, according to the pope (Sept 23 2015) and UN (Dec 23 2016), the antichrist will be in place on 23rd Sept 2017.

So if none of Christianity is true, then why are the globalists obeying their Book of Lies, and going to ram the Mark of the Beast down everyone's throat before the end of this year ?

They have already successfully reduced Damascus to a 'ruinous heap' as stated in the Bible and turned a third of world water bitter (radioactiive via Fukushima).
LMAO!!! You go boy! Let's get together and talk about this sep 24 hahahaha!
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Because some Christians suggest this and this is a possibility I remain open minded to.

So? What if there is a God and a Hell? If God places you in Hell you got to figure God knows what he is doing. God's going to stick you where you need to be. Nothing you can do about it. Might as well not worry about it.
 

The Transcended Omniverse

Well-Known Member
So? What if there is a God and a Hell? If God places you in Hell you got to figure God knows what he is doing. God's going to stick you where you need to be. Nothing you can do about it. Might as well not worry about it.

I am open to the possibility of an evil cruel God. That sounds like what an evil cruel God would do to me. Not an all loving and all just one who knows what he is doing.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I am open to the possibility of an evil cruel God. That sounds like what an evil cruel God would do to me. Not an all loving and all just one who knows what he is doing.

Yes, but are you open to a Just God who sends you to Hell. I think by biblical fiat the Christian God is just.

If the Christian God exists as described then I'll have to assume God is just. Therefore sending me to hell is just. I'm just going were I deserve to go. I suppose justice can seem cruel. However I suspect your judgement of it or my judgement of it as being cruel would be inconsequential.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes! You might go to hell, you might not! It all depends on which FLAVOR you choose. Choose wisely my son!
Personally I'd go for the nice version but that's just me.

But "hell" isn't really a thing in my culture anyway. Not in the Christian sense.
 

The Transcended Omniverse

Well-Known Member
Yes, but are you open to a Just God who sends you to Hell. I think by biblical fiat the Christian God is just.

If the Christian God exists as described then I'll have to assume God is just. Therefore sending me to hell is just. I'm just going were I deserve to go. I suppose justice can seem cruel. However I suspect your judgement of it or my judgement of it as being cruel would be inconsequential.

Yes, I am open to that possibility. But I also remain open to the possibility that just because God is described as perfect, all loving, and all just does not make it so. Who knows, he could be just trying to earn the trust of his fellow creations so that they serve him when, in reality, it could be the case that he really is cruel and people who don't serve him end up in hell.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Yes, I am open to that possibility. But I also remain open to the possibility that just because God is described as perfect, all loving, and all just does not make it so. Who knows, he could be just trying to earn the trust of his fellow creations so that they serve him when, in reality, it could be the case that he really is cruel and people who don't serve him end up in hell.

Basically you don't know and you see reason to no support one idea of God over another?

God could be any of these things or none of them, so why worry about it. Everything could turn out totally fine for you.

Seems a waste to me to spend your valuable time worrying about some concept of God that may or may not exist.

Course if you like worrying about something no one knows about, have fun. Different strokes for different folks.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I like the prime directive analogy, and the revelation could be disruptive is excellent. But then why are there so many conflicting revelations? Aren't 100s of conflicting revelations magnitudes of order more disruptive than either NO knowledge of god, or universal revelation?
and you point to that cause for which I have no religion

too many...running in too many directions...for so called religion
all claiming to know God

I say.....you know the Creator by His creation
look to the scheme of things above your head and all around you

I see my fellowman as a creature gone insane
and struggles to find peace
and cannot

and such things could follow after the last breath....but....
the peace of heaven is guarded.

I am sure....you cannot enter if you seek the life in this world

It is written....
do not conform to this world....be transformed by it
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Yes! You might go to hell, you might not! It all depends on which FLAVOR you choose. Choose wisely my son!
i agree....

ask of heaven and heaven might grant your request
ask of the devil and he might grant your desire

and you will owe your soul to ....someone
 

FunctionalAtheist

Hammer of Reason
and you point to that cause for which I have no religion

too many...running in too many directions...for so called religion
all claiming to know God
And the reason I am perfectly content in ignoring the possibility of god. If he does exist, he'd want us to ignore him and any one of 1000s speaking on his behalf. Do I, an atheist, not know right from wrong? How to treat people?

Does religion do anything but get in the way of doing right?

Confession: IFF there is a god, I will have no problem looking him in the eye and stating my case!!! And if he condemns me, it will be I who judge him unworthy!
 

Blackdog22

Well-Known Member
That sounds like more of an evangelical Protestant view of hell. For one, I'm Catholic. We don't even have to believe that anyone is in hell. There's a wide variety of theological emphases in Catholicism, including Eastern Christian views (as the Church includes the Eastern Rite, not just the Roman/Latin-Rite), which differ from most Western Christian views. I personally lean towards universal reconciliation, which teaches that all souls will eventually be reconciled to God, including Satan. I at least hold out the hope for that. But as for hell, I take a more Eastern Christian viewpoint of it, which is that hell is basically the rejection of God's love and the experience of it as torment. In this view, one must consciously choose to reject God. It's not a matter of mere difference of belief or non-belief. You must consciously choose to turn from God and all the goodness that flows from Him. You choose the path of destruction, in this view. So merely being an atheist probably wouldn't get you to that point, since you must first know the truth and choose to reject it. Atheists, to my understanding, are typically striving to find the truth like most people are.

The Catholic Church teaches that Christians and other religious people have their share of the blame in making people into atheists by misrepresenting God, hurting people and causing scandal in the name of God. It also teaches that one cannot be blamed for not being presented with an authentic (Christ-like) view of God while they were alive. (We should witness by actions and only use words if necessary, as the quote popularly attributed to St. Francis of Assisi goes.) So it's understandable that some who have been hurt by religion would turn away from it. So those who harm in the name of religion would be judged much more harshly than someone who simply doesn't believe.

Also, Catholicism believes in Purgatory, which is a state of purification that occurs after death for those who haven't consciously rejected God but still have things keeping them from going directly to Heaven. It is said that Angels and even Christ Himself minister to those in Purgatory. The Church on earth also prays for the holy souls in Purgatory. All those in Purgatory eventually find their way into Heaven. I think most of us end up going to Purgatory, personally, as I think most of us are basically good and striving to find the truth in love, in life.

Also, God wills that no soul be separate from Him. We have our own free will to decide, however. He does not wish that anyone go to hell, since He created us to share in His love and goodness. What good is love without a beloved, after all.


I really like your point of view. Thank you for sharing.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
My previous topics were just way too long for anyone to bother reading and replying to. Therefore, I will make this topic which summarizes my point I wish to discuss. I am not lying when I said that I have looked into everything I possibly could with an honest open mind and heart. I am still undecided on the existence of God and the afterlife. So why wouldn't God reveal himself to me and his truth for someone like me who does indeed have an honest open mind and heart? It makes no sense to me unless God is uncaring, unloving, etc. and he doesn't really care that I go to hell for not believing and not serving him.

God may have conflicting desires as well... where he might not want any to perish but that all might be saved yet other considerations might prevail
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
And the reason I am perfectly content in ignoring the possibility of god. If he does exist, he'd want us to ignore him and any one of 1000s speaking on his behalf. Do I, an atheist, not know right from wrong? How to treat people?

Does religion do anything but get in the way of doing right?

Confession: IFF there is a god, I will have no problem looking him in the eye and stating my case!!! And if he condemns me, it will be I who judge him unworthy!
I worked with a team leader who was a deacon turned atheist....
he had changed his mind
didn't say why

but I did ask him.....
aren't you the guy that stands responsible when your underlings error?
you take the blame for the shift

aren't you the guy that tells me......go do that other task
this one is dangerous ....go do something safe

and you.....Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

so then I say to him....
the angels will not ignore your conduct
as for your denial.....maybe all you will get is a slap up side the head
 
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